The Wallabies Thread
- Thread starter KOB1987
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hammertimethere
Trevor Allan (34)
Well it depends what you mean as "ball skills required for the position". If you want your 12 fix the inside defense, be able to turn the ball back inside or outside to runners off his hip, pull it behind to the full back as well as offload then I would say the Kuridrani does indeed have good enough hands. If you want your 12 to step in and throw flat 20m passes at a sprint then I would say he does not (but then again, arguably neither does SBW, De Allende etc...)
It depends what role you want your 12 to play, and whether you play someone like Beale at 15 and JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing like we used to for example
It depends what role you want your 12 to play, and whether you play someone like Beale at 15 and JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing like we used to for example
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
As much I think Bob is a rugby genius I don't agree with with him about TK at 12. I've banged on before about having the balance of a ball player/passer and a crasher in the centres, so if Tevita plays 12 who then plays outside centre?
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
upthereds#!
Peter Johnson (47)
Which regular squad members won't be available due to injury? Speight? Douglas? TPN? Horne etc?
Merrow
Arch Winning (36)
Apparently Tomane is yet to sign a contract with anyone as yet. Could be good news.
https://www.facebook.com/rugbycomau/posts/849861365157892
https://www.facebook.com/rugbycomau/posts/849861365157892
Just Douglas I believe and I'd guess Speight will be involved with the Aussie 7s (assuming he has regained fitness).
TPN is expected to play this weekend against the Force. He almost returned against the Brumbies.
Horne is still a couple of weeks away I think.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
In the Dwyer system, the ball player plays at 13. The argument is that this gets a playmaker closer to the outside channels, where a break is more lilely to occur. The first receiver then has the choice of passing to the crash 12 or to the wider receiver. In fairness to Dwyer this isn't particularly about Kuridrani. He championed the system before several first-tier nations took it up.
It certainly isn't Gatlandball, as some have suggested here. It's about playing a wider game. Dwyer's philosophy of attacking rugby is as far from Warren Gatland's as it is possible to be.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Not disputing that and in general I think Bob's philosophies are spot on, but my question remains: if we're going to play a crasher at 12 (like TK), who do we play at 13? The outside centre position is a very hard one defensively, so someone who can tackle and read the play effectively is key. Then there is the ability to put others into space and break the line. I know we saw Izzy at 13 for the Tahs on the weekend, but I don't know that I'd be playing him there for the Wallabies this season. Other options might be Hunt maybe?
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
In that situation, if a playmaker is then required at 13, I'd go with Lealiifano, assuming he's not needed at 10 of course.
Marcelo
Ken Catchpole (46)
I can't see the video
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Sorry Brown Hornet I wasn't putting words in your mouth there.
Yes, Hunt would be good. Or Lilo as Brumby Runner suggests. Dwyer himself was banging on about Beale at 13 for a while. Generally speaking, he seems to want a fast man with excellent hands rather than an out-and-out playmaker.
A problem with Folau there is that when he isn't fully committed he can be a bit of a klutz.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
There is nothing wrong with playing a line bending 12 and a more rounded 13 (IMO) but that isn't the structure we used last year and I can't see why Cheika will suddenly change tack. Maybe if we'd crashed out of the WC, but given we made the final I'm expecting we stick we a second 5 at 12 & ball runner at 13 (Kuridrani).
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Sorry Brown Hornet I wasn't putting words in your mouth there.
Yes, Hunt would be good. Or Lilo as Brumby Runner suggests. Dwyer himself was banging on about Beale at 13 for a while. Generally speaking, he seems to want a fast man with excellent hands rather than an out-and-out playmaker.
A problem with Folau there is that when he isn't fully committed he can be a bit of a klutz.
Agreed on all fronts. I don't think Kurtley would make a good 13 because his defence isn't good enough and certainly not at test level. On attack he'd probably be dynamite but it'd have to be to make up for all the points we'd leak with him defending that channel. Izzy could develop into a test level outside centre but he'll require a lot more time in the position and besides he's one of the top couple of fullbacks in the world, so why switch him?
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
When I first wrote my post, I actually had typed 'like the All Blacks did with Nonu & Smith' but I thought that was really underselling Nonu's all round game, so I took that out before I posted it.
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Nonu and Smith was still arguably the best combo in the World, even when Nonu was largely crash balling.
His development in the back half/two thirds of his career simply made the two unstoppable.
"Big" 12, creative 13 would work regardless of back 3 combination. Creative 12, "Big" 13 also works. "Big" 12, "Big" 13 and Creative 12, Creative 13 depend heavily on the back 3 to compensate.
12 Kuridrani, 13 Folau could probably work. It would likely need Beale at Fullback and DHP on the wing (probably with Tomane on the other one) to work to full potential though.
Regardless, the 2nd 5/8th system is working well for you guys, based on player ability and formline, both of individuals and the team at International level.
If you had say 4-6 different centres (stylistically) with a ball hairs worth of talent splitting them, then playing around would be justified. Scotland have fiddled around with Horne, Bennett, Dunbar, Scott and Taylor for just that reason.
But the international potential centers all look to fit in that "big" 13 (Kuridrani, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Kerevi etc.), creative 12 (Giteau, Lilo, To'omua, Beale etc.). Why look to force that system.
His development in the back half/two thirds of his career simply made the two unstoppable.
"Big" 12, creative 13 would work regardless of back 3 combination. Creative 12, "Big" 13 also works. "Big" 12, "Big" 13 and Creative 12, Creative 13 depend heavily on the back 3 to compensate.
12 Kuridrani, 13 Folau could probably work. It would likely need Beale at Fullback and DHP on the wing (probably with Tomane on the other one) to work to full potential though.
Regardless, the 2nd 5/8th system is working well for you guys, based on player ability and formline, both of individuals and the team at International level.
If you had say 4-6 different centres (stylistically) with a ball hairs worth of talent splitting them, then playing around would be justified. Scotland have fiddled around with Horne, Bennett, Dunbar, Scott and Taylor for just that reason.
But the international potential centers all look to fit in that "big" 13 (Kuridrani, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Kerevi etc.), creative 12 (Giteau, Lilo, To'omua, Beale etc.). Why look to force that system.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Yeah H35, I still favour the ball playing 12 and crashing 13, like we had at the RWC. No reason to change that formation and we've got several blokes who can play that kind of role at 12.