The Wallabies Thread

[Zero_Cool]

If those three are as poor as you say wouldn’t that be an argument for picking Kurindrani, the better defender, over Kerevi to hold the defence together (given Beale, Folau, and Foley are the best combination to play). It’s not really a matter of how kerevi defends relative to the others it is about what the best combination is with the other backs.

I don't disagree at all, but my point is Kerevi is much better defensively than Beale, and gives you a lot more in terms of ball running yes at the cost of playmaking -- something Foley doesn't do at all really. If we had an approach to the game that wasn't 'they might score 30 but then we'll score 40 -- they'll score 40 then we'll score 50...' if that weren't the approach (and I think that's not the right approach) perhaps the conversation of 'the 24 year old Kerevi or the nearly 30 year old Beale' is one we'd all be having. But Cheika will never change, it kind of works for a little while but it's' easily beaten by a halfway decent coach just look at England.

Given Cheika's prediction towards all out attack Kerevi is the best choice, otherwise we need to reassess selecting Beale and Foley given current form.

 

[Froggy]

Every time there is a disagreement with a selection, it's put down as 'Cheika's favourites' or 'Cheika will never change', which is starting to get a little tiresome, particularly when you consider the number of new caps under Cheika.

The fact is, Beale has been defending quite adequately in the 12 position in the Tahs this year, and when he did the same in the Wobs last year (not often enough, looking at you Nathan Grey), again there was no problem. He will never be a dominant defender, but unlike Foley, he doesn't miss often. He has clearly been the form 12 this year, and with no Quade he is by far our most creative back, but without the brain explosions. He is also exhibiting a maturity since returning from the UK that wasn't there before.

Kerevi will, therefore, be competing for the 13 jumper. On form, CFS would be the man, but possibly past strong performances in gold will keep TK in the spot. There's a fair bit more time to go, I would have thought Kerevi, CFS and TK were all in the frame, they would all benefit from playing outside Beale, it's up to them to use the next month or so to demand selection.

 

[Gnostic]

I don't disagree at all, but my point is Kerevi is much better defensively than Beale, and gives you a lot more in terms of ball running yes at the cost of playmaking -- something Foley doesn't do at all really. If we had an approach to the game that wasn't 'they might score 30 but then we'll score 40 -- they'll score 40 then we'll score 50.' if that weren't the approach (and I think that's not the right approach) perhaps the conversation of 'the 24 year old Kerevi or the nearly 30 year old Beale' is one we'd all be having. But Cheika will never change, it kind of works for a little while but it's' easily beaten by a halfway decent coach just look at England.



Given Cheika's prediction towards all out attack Kerevi is the best choice, otherwise we need to reassess selecting Beale and Foley given current form.

This is one of the biggest urban myths. Have a look at the Tahs set piece try on the weekend. Or go back to the 2015 RWC and trys scored against England and your will see just a bit of playmaking.

Kerevi is not that good a defender, because he gets caught out of position and misreads play quite often. That is changing under a decent defensive structure which with the Reds this year is the first time he has ever had that luxury at Super Level, so any real judgement must be held over for a while yet. Similarly Beale, has improved a lot this year because Grey is no longer in charge and the structure itself is far better.

That said it doesn't bode well for when both those candidates again have to deal with Greys' shocking defensive patterns. After 2014 and 2015 when the Tahs and the Wallabies had brilliant defence WTF happened, I know systems have to evolve and not get caught stagnating, but FFS 2016-2017 the Tahs and the Wallabies were utter shite in terms of defensive patterns and the less said about the Reds after Taylor left the better.

Point is individuals have attributes yes, but the systems can exacerbate or ameliorate those attributes and it is what we are seeing this year IMO.

 

[Gnostic]

I would've had him down as the Wallabies version of Ma'a Nonu.....



Every year his selection is questioned on the back of average Super Rugby form, but always delivers at test level.

Nah, he has never shown the skill set of Nonu who could kick and pass and effectively play the NZ second 5/8 game.

 

[Gnostic]

The biggest issue in selection this year will be if Cheika persists with workrate over effectiveness in the backrow. Workrate and never making the gain line, completing 99% of tackles but getting dominated in the contact every time. Sure pick a workrate player but they simply must be balanced by a player who can dominate a tackle or in contact with the ball. Hanigan does not do any of these things, so if he is picked at 6 (and his set piece work and workrate provide compelling reasons to do so then the Pooper simply is not an option as neither Hooper or Pocock are dominant ball carriers in tight, though they can provide dominant tackling it negates a prime selection criteria for them as 7s and brings in the unbalanced backrow problem. Add in the second row and the need for real balance between the locks in terms of set piece, workrate and ball carrying functions.

 

[Derpus]

Nah, he has never shown the skill set of Nonu who could kick and pass and effectively play the NZ second 5/8 game.

I dont recall ever seeing Nonu kick eh. Perhaps I've just forgotten.

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[Brumby Runner]

Nonu had developed a pretty threatening short kicking game by the end of his career. Memory must be failing you D.

 

[Gnostic]

Nonu had developed a pretty threatening short kicking game by the end of his career. Memory must be failing you D.

It is one of the great failing of Australian Rugby that I have not seen a Wallaby player develop any skill that they did not have upon entering the Pro set-up, such as Nonu's kicking, Savea's ability under the high ball etc etc etc. Just have a look at the current set up and we will be bemoaning the skill execution failings of certain players in the same way we have since they started in the Wallaby/Super programs.

 

[Sully]

It is one of the great failing of Australian Rugby that I have not seen a Wallaby player develop any skill that they did not have upon entering the Pro set-up, such as Nonu's kicking, Savea's ability under the high ball etc etc etc. Just have a look at the current set up and we will be bemoaning the skill execution failings of certain players in the same way we have since they started in the Wallaby/Super programs.

But how fit do they get!

 

[Ruggo]

DHP is a clear upgrade at fullback. Not as threatening in attack but he has a far superior kicking game. Folau should play on the wing for the Wallabies where his attacking skills could be far better used.

 

[Braveheart81]

perhaps the conversation of 'the 24 year old Kerevi or the nearly 30 year old Beale' is one we'd all be having. But Cheika will never change, it kind of works for a little while but it's' easily beaten by a halfway decent coach just look at England.

I love how you've added a year to Beale's age even though Kerevi's next birthday is 4 months before Beale's.

I don't think any test coach would be picking Kerevi ahead of Beale.

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[Zero_Cool]

I love how you've added a year to Beale's age even though Kerevi's next birthday is 4 months before Beale's.

I don't think any test coach would be picking Kerevi ahead of Beale.

Fair, I don't actually know when either of them are born, but my point was Beale is the wrong side of 25, Kerevi is the right (only just apparently) side of it. To be fair Kerevi's a little older than I thought he was, I felt like he was like 23.

 

[Braveheart81]

Beale put together his best test season last year since probably 2010.

He is a pretty key part of this side moving towards the RWC.

He's clearly in the latter part of a long career but there is nothing to suggest the end is close.

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[Rebels3]

Beale is one of the first names on the sheet. Has the ability to unlock the staunchest of defenses. The sort of player that by picking other teams have to look/potentially change their game plan/selections to accommodate, that automatically gets you on the front foot before the game has started. We want to be a proactive and not reactive team

 

[Derpus]

Most of our better performances last year coincided with Beale's form. That said i don't think he was in form for the entire test season. Faded a bit.

 

[Slim 293]

He really only faded when shifted to 15.............

Cheika should’ve left him at 12 and found a different replacement for Folau.

 

[Rebels3]

Coincided with his switch to 15 when Folau was out.

 

[TOCC]

Beales best performances in 2017 were when he attacked and defended at 12, he had a simple and clear role.

Then they changed the defensive pattern and shifted Beale to defend on the wing and Foley on the other wing, things were over complicated and it fell apart a bit.


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[USARugger]

I dont recall ever seeing Nonu kick eh. Perhaps I've just forgotten.

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Nonu is a considerably better kicker than most Australian halves of the last few years.

 

[fatprop]

I think we can agree that we will have Genia, Foley & Beale at 9, 10 & 12 - and they will manage the clearances. Hopefully we can get our defensive ruck cleaned up so Genia can be first choice.

I have never seen the point in passing it back 15m to kick it 40m. Using the 9 also puts the chase in play while sending it back makes everyone stand still.

We will see a master class in this play from Murray in June

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