The Wallabies Thread

[Joe Blow]

No RHP? Doesn't make sense really for a train on squad.

 

[swingpass]

No RHP? Doesn't make sense really for a train on squad.

not much makes sense in australian rugby these days

 

[KOB1987]

Quade is essentially a specialist 10 and with at least 2 of and possibly all of Beale, Hunt and Hodge in the match day 23, who can all cover 10 and offer more versatility, it's probably a case of it being hard to find a spot for Quade. Cheika probably thinks he'll get more out of playing club rugby.

If Foley got injured I think we'd see Quade called up.

 

[fatprop]

Wallabies coach Michael Cheika says Quade Cooper’s form forced his hand, after leaving the enigmatic playmaker out of an extended 38-man train-on squad on Wednesday.

It is the first time Cooper has been left out of a Wallabies squad since Robbie Deans omitted him from the 2013 Lions Series, with injuries and a stint overseas keeping him out of contention at other times.

Cooper has had one of his more injury-free seasons in 2017 but has been hampered by niggles and battled to have consistently positive influences on matches.Cheika said he had spoken to Cooper about the reasons for his omission but ultimately it came down to his inconsistent performances in Super Rugby.

“From a form perspective, yeah I don’t think his form has been brilliant, to be honest,” he said.

“With us, it’s a bit different because I haven’t been giving him big minutes (for the Wallabies), so I can’t be saying it’s form in that way.

And, if we’re honest, there’s a reason why we haven’t been giving him those minutes.

“I have had a long talk with him yesterday and I don’t want to breach that code of coach-player by giving out too much detail, but one of the big things is for him to look like he is enjoying his footy,.

“We have had a talk about the reasons why and obviously a lot of that is trying to get him back into a space where he can be that player that’s going to get us around the park and do the stuff that we want him to do.

“I don’t feel like that’s been happening and I feel like at a certain point I have to change things.

“With a bit of congestion now in the midfield players, with (Kurtley) Beale back and some of the options around the ten position, I decided that’s the way to go.”

Bernard Foley has been almost unrivalled for the starting 10 spot in the past three seasons, though he was pushed out to 12 for Cooper to start in five Tests last year...................................................................................................................

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/07/18/23/42/wallabies-extended-squad


And higgers

Cooper’s Reds teammate Scott Higginbotham was the other major omission in the side, with Cheika simply saying he hadn’t brought the impact required, preferring younger backrow options instead.

“I just think he need to have more impact, and when I say impact, he is a big guy and a powerful ball carrier and defender,” he said.

"Just that little bit more impact, in the combination of backrowers we had, was what I was looking for."

and douglas

As interesting as his additions are his recalls, with out-of-favour locks Kane Douglas and Rob Simmons back in the mix, though young lock Lukhan Tui has not been included this time around due to injury.
Cheika said he wanted to give Douglas, especially, a chance to prove he could get back to the quality that made him a regular Wallaby only 18 months ago.
"With Kane, there is a bit of me there just saying I know what this guy can do and I want to get him back," he said.
"I want to have the chance myself to get him back to that level."

and Toby Smith

while Melbourne's Toby Smith has been left out, with family matters in New Zealand to deal with

 

[Joe Blow]

 

[Sauron]

No RHP? Doesn't make sense really for a train on squad.

Superman himself could have played in RHP's place for the Force, and he'd still struggle to get selected over Dempsey and Hanigan. I'm sure they've something in common, just can't put my finger on it. . .

 

[Pieman]

Certainly some mixed messages to players from Cheika. I wonder what Higgers and QC (Quade Cooper) think about his rationale for selecting Kane Douglas. "With Kane, there is a bit of me there just saying I know what this guy can do and I want to get him back," he said.
"I want to have the chance myself to get him back to that level."
Fair enough for Douglas, but wouldn't you apply that thinking to all your experienced players?

 

[Ignoto]

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/07/18/23/42/wallabies-extended-squad

“I just think he need to have more impact, and when I say impact, he is a big guy and a powerful ball carrier and defender,” he said.

"Just that little bit more impact, in the combination of backrowers we had, was what I was looking for."

We're starting to get into Deans levels of confusion now. What type of impact was Hanigan having during the June matches? Do smaller guys get to have less of an impact than the bigger guys?

 

[fatprop]

We're starting to get into Deans levels of confusion now. What type of impact was Hanigan having during the June matches? Do smaller guys get to have less of an impact than the bigger guys?

I tend to agree, but I think the decision went sort of like this

"neither had great impact, let's punt on the kid, he has more upside"

 

[RugbyReg]

I agree with the non-selection of QC (Quade Cooper) if that's the reasoning.

Not so sure about Higgers, but only because I don't see many other 8 options.

Moore shouldn't be picked on form at all.

Douglas - yeah ok, I get what he's saying but its contradictory to his other statements.

Magnay's selections is completely undeserved and stinks of keeping him close to dissuade him from going to Japan.

 

[Pieman]

Douglas - yeah ok, I get what he's saying but its contradictory to his other statements.

My point exactly Reg. Based on some these comments, there must be quite a few players wondering either why they've been dropped....why they've been retained...or why they didn't get selected. Sort of reflects the confused state of rugby in this country at the moment.

 

[TSR]

I watched the reply of Reds vs Highlanders this morning - sucker for punishment I know - and I thought Magnay actually showed a far bit, with the exception of
1 terrible pass.

These sort of squads always have a few questionables in there. I reckon his selection has a lot more upside than a few others in there.

 

[Braveheart81]

My point exactly Reg. Based on some these comments, there must be quite a few players wondering either why they've been dropped..why they've been retained.or why they didn't get selected. Sort of reflects the confused state of rugby in this country at the moment.

Is there ever a time when the exact same criteria is applied to every selection decision?

I think the only time that is relevant is where you're only selecting a team on paper and they don't actually play any games.

There's variations based on whether players are likely to just be in the squad for experience (and probably dropped once the squad is trimmed), whether they were in the squad in June and have already been assessed this year versus those who haven't and variations based on age and likely (or hoped) future involvement.

Cheika doesn't really do himself any favours by trying to explain the controversial selections and omissions because the reasons vary and then he is accused of being inconsistent but I think the reality of selecting squads and teams never involves an entirely consistent approach to every selection.

 

[Ruggo]

Moore shouldn't have been starting at the Reds ahead of Mafi who grabbed his limited opportunities with both hands.

RHP - Sorry son, you don't play for the Tahs.

 

[gel]

OMG! HOW CAN QUADE BE LEft out of the.........

No. Wait.

I'm fine with that.

His form has been very poor, and selection would be totally unjustified.

 

[gel]

It will be interesting to see how Kafer goes in the new role.

I think it's fantastic that he's stepped out of the commentary box to make a difference, but saying the right things into a microphone and working with embedded mediocrity are two entirely different things.

I truly hope he doesn't end up jaded by the experience, or gets lulled by whatever miasma plagues the ARU.

Thinking about this further.

What qualifications has Kafer actually got to fulfil the HP role? Seems to me that this would probably be a largely managerial and strategic role, wouldn't it? What's he done in the past that justifies his ascension to that type of position?

I really like his analysis on Foxsports, and reckon he's light years ahead of many in his understanding of the game, but wouldn't that be more of a game strategy kind of role, or an assistant coach? Not a HP role, surely.

Maybe I'm overthinking it.

 

[Sauron]

Thinking about this further.

What qualifications has Kafer actually got to fulfil the HP role? Seems to me that this would probably be a largely managerial and strategic role, wouldn't it? What's he done in the past that justifies his ascension to that type of position?

I really like his analysis on Foxsports, and reckon he's light years ahead of many in his understanding of the game, but wouldn't that be more of a game strategy kind of role, or an assistant coach? Not a HP role, surely.

Maybe I'm overthinking it.

I think his role will be closer to one of developing game strategies, or improving coaches' abilities in that area. It seems that he's going to be trying to come up with an 'Australian way to play' (I.e. strategy), within which coaches will have the flexibility to adapt to their particular circumstances (I.e. Tactics).

I'd say that between his demonstrated understanding of the game, and his experience with implementing athlete development programs at SportsTek, that he at least has the knowledge and experience to not be written off immediately.

 

[Pieman]

Is there ever a time when the exact same criteria is applied to every selection decision?

I think the only time that is relevant is where you're only selecting a team on paper and they don't actually play any games.

There's variations based on whether players are likely to just be in the squad for experience (and probably dropped once the squad is trimmed), whether they were in the squad in June and have already been assessed this year versus those who haven't and variations based on age and likely (or hoped) future involvement.

Cheika doesn't really do himself any favours by trying to explain the controversial selections and omissions because the reasons vary and then he is accused of being inconsistent but I think the reality of selecting squads and teams never involves an entirely consistent approach to every selection.

You make some very good points BH. However I still feel if the coach says "I know what this guy can do and I want to get him back" it's going to draw comparisons with other players. As you say, he doesn't do himself any favours.

 

[fatprop]

Thinking about this further.

What qualifications has Kafer actually got to fulfil the HP role? Seems to me that this would probably be a largely managerial and strategic role, wouldn't it? What's he done in the past that justifies his ascension to that type of position?

I really like his analysis on Foxsports, and reckon he's light years ahead of many in his understanding of the game, but wouldn't that be more of a game strategy kind of role, or an assistant coach? Not a HP role, surely.

Maybe I'm overthinking it.

I don't think it is a full HP role

Kafer has been appointed to lead the establishment of a new coach development program

As part of this, Kafer will play the lead role in finalising the structure of a national coaching advisory panel, likely to include 6-8 people, including former Wallabies coaches, current coaches as well as experts from other similar fields, such as teaching.

The greatest immediate battle Kafer faces may be encouraging states to work alongside the national body, though he believes that is something that is achievable in the near future.

I think he will be herding cats, until a few more states go under (the Tahs are on their way), the ARU can advise not tell

 

[swingpass]

Cheika's bit about Higginbotham, what a crock !!!