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The Wallabies Thread

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Tim Gavin was one of the greats, very very unlucky with injury.


Hanigan will get a lot of minutes next season, for sure. He is still very new, maybe he will fill out a bit. I reckon he will go past both Holloway and Dempsey in the pecking order. He could also play lock.
 

Micheal

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Tim Gavin was one of the greats, very very unlucky with injury.


Hanigan will get a lot of minutes next season, for sure. He is still very new, maybe he will fill out a bit. I reckon he will go past both Holloway and Dempsey in the pecking order. He could also play lock.

I'm still not sold on Hanigan, despite the man love for him on these forums (keep in mind people on these very forums have been suggesting Hodge may been the next Mortlock / Little / Horan despite playing >20 Super Rugby games and 2 tests).

Many of my friends who have trained alongside him at SS, u20 or at the Waratahs don't seem to see his potential, and think he's incredibly overrated as a player. Read into that what you will.

In terms of my personal opinion, his performances seem to be quite compelling, but nothing leads me to believe he'll surpass Dempsey or Holloway for a long time now. This is partly due to the fact that all three are remarkably different players, and I don't think a simple comparison is suitable.

Dempsey plays a harder game and is certainly the more naturally talented athlete of the two. Holloway plays a power game and is of a completely different structure.

I think Hanigan would be best suited to continue to develop in the SS / NRC for at least another year, maybe two. I hope to see him become a tough, rangy workhorse of a second rower, something not favoured much in Australian rugby. Maro Itoje Mk ll. He'd really complement a harder lock, eg Douglas / Arnold, superbly.

Nonetheless an exciting prospect, but let's not get carried away. Pressure can make diamonds, but more often will turn the strongest of rocks to dust.
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Good point, Nod, but Ned's starting to get mucked around at the back of the scrum, we don't want him to end up like a lost tribe of Israel. His appearances for the Tahs this year were at 6, he looked very comfortable there. The Tahs are a bit short in the second row but not in the backrow. Ned's time will come.
 

upthereds#!

Peter Johnson (47)
Ned doesn't have the size to be a lock, and someone compared him to itoje....absolutely different.

Would say the most appropriate comparison for ned from a physical point of view would be Fardy or Mumm, though leaning towards Fardy. Nothing like K.Read, more like a Tom Wood from England. His best chance in the future is a rangy hard grafting 6 like Fardy, getting through a mountain of work to make up for the lack of impact with ball in hand (palu) or one on one ability out wide (higs)

Holloway is a harder one as he is the exact same size and height as Fardy but plays a wider running game as opposed to a in tight coal face game. Would again be more suited to a 6 as an ex lock like fardy and mumm, as he can run and gun like Higs whereas fardy is definitely less inspiring or useful in that regard.

Either way, both would need a large lump of human for the big dent making in tight .. ..Timani!

btw i See 6 and 8 as interchangeable as long as the balance is right. On a traditional setup one would assume Kaino as 8 and Read as 6.

Would love to see a Hanigan, Holloway and Hooper backrow have a crack at the tahs every now but it is still early days and most likely itll be

4. Mumm 5. Skelton
6. Dempsey 8. Holloway 7. Hoops

19. Toleafoa 20. Hanigan.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Ned doesn't have the size to be a lock, and someone compared him to itoje..absolutely different.



Would say the most appropriate comparison for ned from a physical point of view would be Fardy or Mumm, though leaning towards Fardy. Nothing like K.Read, more like a Tom Wood from England. His best chance in the future is a rangy hard grafting 6 like Fardy, getting through a mountain of work to make up for the lack of impact with ball in hand (palu) or one on one ability out wide (higs)



Holloway is a harder one as he is the exact same size and height as Fardy but plays a wider running game as opposed to a in tight coal face game. Would again be more suited to a 6 as an ex lock like fardy and mumm, as he can run and gun like Higs whereas fardy is definitely less inspiring or useful in that regard.



Either way, both would need a large lump of human for the big dent making in tight .. ..Timani!



btw i See 6 and 8 as interchangeable as long as the balance is right. On a traditional setup one would assume Kaino as 8 and Read as 6.



Would love to see a Hanigan, Holloway and Hooper backrow have a crack at the tahs every now but it is still early days and most likely itll be



4. Mumm 5. Skelton

6. Dempsey 8. Holloway 7. Hoops



19. Toleafoa 20. Hanigan.



Yes Hanigan appears to be of the mould for a number 6 Fardy style to me and has impressed me in recent games seen him play. I am not sure about Timani as a world class 8 potential but unsure means I just don't know. Be interesting when he gets his crack at wallaby level how he goes and develops. Only one way to find out by playing him. I never would have thought Holloway would be wallaby class but yes he did surprise me for his form this season for the Tahs before his injury so a maybe.
 

Alex Sharpe

Ward Prentice (10)
I think it should be a non negotiable that Australian Rugby finds an out and out number 8 that can bend defensive lines and generate front foot ball in the same manner of Lyons and Kefu.
The use of hybrid utility forwards that can pack down anywhere behind the front row robs both the player and the team of the specialist attributes that each position requires, and I feel both Hanigan and Holloway both fit into this category,
I would love to see Lopeti Timani or Pat Sio bought in and developed to fill this role at both Super Rugby and test level. Such a shame that Ita Vea retired because he would have been Ideal.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I think it should be a non negotiable that Australian Rugby finds an out and out number 8 that can bend defensive lines and generate front foot ball in the same manner of Lyons and Kefu.
The use of hybrid utility forwards that can pack down anywhere behind the front row robs both the player and the team of the specialist attributes that each position requires, and I feel both Hanigan and Holloway both fit into this category,
I would love to see Lopeti Timani or Pat Sio bought in and developed to fill this role at both Super Rugby and test level. Such a shame that Ita Vea retired because he would have been Ideal.


The All Blacks seem to survive without a number 8 with those attributes quite well
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
But they have 7 other piggies who aren't too bad at their job


Agreed, but a crash ball 8 isn't the panacea to the wob's pigs ills without the 7 other piggies doing a tad more, a tad more effectively as well, especially Timani or Hollaway; both have majors pieces of their game that need work, lots of work
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Geez, this year has the potential to be a season from hell for us. The Wallabies are one from 6 so far, but have another 9 tests to go (ARG X 2, SA, ABs, Grand Slam, France) of which only one game is at home. There are only 3 rest weekends (test match free) between now and our last game on 3 Dec so there isn't really going to be much chance to change a whole lot up from here on in either.

We need to win 7 of our last nine to have a winning record this year. Not sure if that matters, nor if it is realistically achievable.

That depends on whether you regard our problems as problems of form, or class, or circumstance.

If it's form, then the year can only improve, since form is temporary, and the average ranking of the teams we face is about to fall precipitously. We may not be able to claw back the deficit, but it won't be an "anus horribilis". If we can play well and win most games well from here on, it'll be a recovery.

If it's class, then you're correct: it could get messy. But if it's class, how can we have been a high-quality team last year, and a low-quality team this year, wih essentially the same players and coaches? It seems to me that a lack of form is a more likely explanation. Good players don't become bad players overnight. And Michael Cheika isn't suddenly the world's worst coach, as much as some fans would like to see a ritual sacking.

Circumstances are a mixture of both those things. If we'd kicked our goals, we could easily have been 2-0 up going into the final test against the Soap Dodgers, since we won every metric except the goal kicks and games. And then might have rolled them in their last game of a very long year. That's not coulda-shoulda-woulda hypothesizing: it's a reflection of form. Against the AIGs, we're just not in the same class at the moment. We need an influx of fresh talent (like they have had) before we can hope to catch them, and there are some signs of that coming. But there's nothing to suggest that the rest of the world has gotten any better since the world cup.

There are certainly major positives. Our front row stocks are unequalled in our rugby history. Several of our props have the potential to step up and become world class. Now we also have signs of a durable, tough set of locks with some mongrel about them. The backrow speaks for itself. Whether or not we agree with the Pooper, an in-form Fardy Pooper is obviously world-class. It's our backs that are less convincing, but that's easier to fix than a pack that retreats faster than the French surrender to Germans. Two wingers with real gas and the return from injury of some of our 12s would go a long way to sorting it completely.
 

Alex Sharpe

Ward Prentice (10)
The All Blacks seem to survive without a number 8 with those attributes quite well

There is more than one way to get behind the advantage line.
Kieran Read isn't a crash ball style 8 but he is still attacks effectively using distribution and change of angle in the wider parts of the field.
Point being AUS attack would be a lot better off with an x factor 8 as opposed to a workhorse style 8, as good a footballer as they are.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I'm still not sold on Hanigan, despite the man love for him on these forums (keep in mind people on these very forums have been suggesting Hodge may been the next Mortlock / Little / Horan despite playing >20 Super Rugby games and 2 tests).

I'm not having a go at you per se (plenty of posters do it to), but I really dislike this term. Someone saying or thinking Player X is good, or might be good, or is awesome is not "man love" but just saying they reckon they're good. Calling it "man love" is pejorative, and I think most posters form opinions rationally, rather than in swooning admiration.
Just my opinion.
 
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