The Residency / Poaching Thing...

[Bullrush]

For sure it is a bit of a waste

I guess my problem also stems from, there would be some (as an example) Samoan guys out there who would give their life to pull on that blue jersey, are about to get selected then "nah sorry 103 test player Nonu comes in for 2-3 years to take the spot" what sort of message is that sending to guys who have Samoa as their first choice?

At some point these tier 1 players made a conscious decision to represent that nation, whether it was for love of that country or for financial gain, the tier 2 nation was not their first choice and they shouldn't be able to turn around after either no longer being good enough to make a tier 1 side or raking in the dough and now wanting to represent the country they actually want to.

Would the national team benefit from having these players play for them? Of course! but at what cost? Integrity of the sport, alienating players who have the Tier 2 nations as their first choice, it's also a band-aid solution to a bigger problem.

We need to make playing for these nations more appealing from the get go so when eligible players have to make a decision they don't have to worry so much about money or career development, not bastardizing the eligibility rules for a quick fix. More fixtures for Tier 2 nations, policing of club contracts barring players from playing international footy, assisted funding from World Rugby, policies around gate takings when Tier 1 nations play Tier 2, policies around Tier 2 teams getting home fixtures.

If high profile players want to help out Tier 2 nations, volunteer, become ambassadors, coaches etc represent that way to bring through the next generation who can/want to rep that Tier 2 nation

There would be very few players, if any, who have Samoa as their first choice if they could also play for the All Blacks or Australia, England etc. The reality is that Samoa is already 2nd choice because the money gap is MASSIVE. Not just in terms of getting paid by the ABs or Samoa but how much more a player can expect/demand from clubs when they have played for the All Blacks or a T1 nation. And it is pretty common knowledge that these players are often the main bread winners for a larger extended family and community so the need to make the best money you can is even greater. Samoan players are not alienated because Nonu played for the Manu. If anything, it puts more weight and pride in the jersey.

No integrity is lost whatsoever by the sport simply because any of the players I mentioned earlier represented different countries at different times. And to say the rules are being 'bastardized' when the law itself is less than 20yrs old is a bit rich. The guys at the top of the rugby hierarchy change the laws, some of those lower down the chain say that the law change is adversely affecting them and the reply is 'we shouldn't bastardize the rules!'.

Telling high profile players to help by being anything else except players is like having a mechanic look at your broken down car and telling him to give it good clean inside, change the tyres and wipers but don't work on the engine.

Let them do their work where they best know how to.

 

[Bullrush]

The point is often raised that Samoa and Tonga etc. would be stronger if their best players weren't forced to sit out of test rugby by their clubs.

Can anyone point to some players who would be in the best 23 for these countries that didn't go to the RWC and aren't injured etc?

I feel like a lot of the previous issues where clubs were making it difficult for players to play for their countries has been eased by the frequency with which almost all test teams use regulation 9 to have players released to play for them.

Well Jack Lam didn't get a contract because he choose to go to this World Cup.

 

[Show-n-go]

There would be very few players, if any, who have Samoa as their first choice if they could also play for the All Blacks or Australia, England etc.

At some point there needs to be some personal responsibility on the players for their decisions though, if you go for the money then fine (well not fine id really prefer they didn't play if their heart wasn't 100% in it) but you've made your bed.

Also highly doubt Nadolo et al would get any more money or bargaining power worth noting, from repping the AB's than they currently have. If you're good enough to be asked to be in the Wallabies or AB's you can name your price in Europe or Japan and represent your island nation and come out financially better for it.

if you have played Tier 1 it may in some cases give you a little extra but nothing over the span of a career compared to playing in Europe for X amount of years as opposed to that same amount of years in super rugby + tests for AUS, NZ whoever. That's why Charles Piutau left, he chased the money and best of luck to him for making that decision.

 

[Bullrush]

At some point there needs to be some personal responsibility on the players for their decisions though, if you go for the money then fine (well not fine id really prefer they didn't play if their heart wasn't 100% in it) but you've made your bed.

Also highly doubt Nadolo et al would get any more money or bargaining power worth noting, from repping the AB's than they currently have. If you're good enough to be asked to be in the Wallabies or AB's you can name your price in Europe or Japan and represent your island nation and come out financially better for it.

if you have played Tier 1 it may in some cases give you a little extra but nothing over the span of a career compared to playing in Europe for X amount of years as opposed to that same amount of years in super rugby + tests for AUS, NZ whoever. That's why Charles Piutau left, he chased the money and best of luck to him for making that decision.

Again, it's a bit rich to change the rules so that it detrimentally effects these Island nations and then turn around and tell them they need to take some personal responsibility for their decisions.

The notion that representing a country is and should be about having your "heart 100% in it" is almost as insulting or condescending as it is ridiculous. Take all the money out of Tests if it's not about money. World Rugby and the Tier 1 nations make MASSIVE amount of money because of Test rugby but players should be doing it for love?!?! Again, this is such a colonial mindset which seeks to take as much profit and benefit out of someone else for as low a cost as possible.

And the idea that playing for the ABs or Wallabies etc doesn't increase your value is silly. If you think Piutau's value was the same pre and post ABs, I have a bridge to sell you. Players don't get "asked" to play for these teams, they get selected. Because the selectors know in advance who is eligibe, who has made themselves eligible and select accordingly.

So, just to recap, the "devalue jersey" has been left behind and I think this "personal responsibility" argument is worse.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

The notion that representing a country is and should be about having your "heart 100% in it" is almost as insulting or condescending as it is ridiculous. Take all the money out of Tests if it's not about money.

We are fans though. Parochial ones subscribed to our narratives. The rugby takes place on the pitch, that's our field of narratives. The $$ is of course "a factor" but not something that comes into the equation of the mind's eye when we're thrilling to Akira going boom-chucka-lucka on some clown or the Drua on their home paddock biffing the Cantabs in the pot.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

#dead_to_me

He couldve had it all. He could've been - whisper it quietly so as not to needlessly unsettle the children - the next Isiah Toeava.

 

[Wilson]

We are fans though. Parochial ones subscribed to our narratives. The rugby takes place on the pitch, that's our field of narratives. The $$ is of course "a factor" but not something that comes into the equation of the mind's eye when we're thrilling to Akira going boom-chucka-lucka on some clown or the Drua on their home paddock biffing the Cantabs in the pot.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

#dead_to_me

He couldve had it all. He could've been - whisper it quietly so as not to needlessly unsettle the children - the next Isiah Toeava.

With over 3 years between posts I believe this thread is eligible to change nationalities.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

With over 3 years between posts I believe this thread is eligible to change nationalities.

As thread OP I declare that this thread has switched allegiances to the almighty island of Pitcairn.

As such, it will represent the Pitcairns at the upcoming GAGR World Cup of Threads which @zer0 is now in charge of organising.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

As thread OP I declare that this thread has switched allegiances to the almighty island of Pitcairn.

As such, it will represent the Pitcairns at the upcoming GAGR World Cup of Threads which @zer0 is now in charge of organising.

This is defo getting the "I See Nothing" from old mate @zer0...

 

[zer0]

I am disappointed that www.grannytranny.org is not a real thing.

I have spoken.

 

[cyclopath]

As thread OP I declare that this thread has switched allegiances to the almighty island of Pitcairn.

As such, it will represent the Pitcairns at the upcoming GAGR World Cup of Threads which @zer0 is now in charge of organising.

Is that The Pit of Byron at the top of that slope?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Is that The Pit of Byron at the top of that slope?

Yes. It's known on the island as The Dark Barren Void Of Byron From Which All Light Retracts And Which Can Never Be Spoken Of.

But Byron can't read. So we can write whatever we like about it on the internet.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Joseph to step down as Japan coach after Rugby World Cup: reports

Jamie Joseph has announced plans to step down as Japan head coach after this year's Rugby World Cup, local media reported. The New Zealander led the Brave Blossoms to the World Cup quarterfinals for the first time on home soil four years ago and will coach the team again at…

japantoday.com

Sharp reading of the tea leaves from JJ here.

He can see the residency thing changing from 3 out to 5 years will sludge up the works in his gaijin mercenary poaching pipeline and - god forbid - he might have to actually select more than 4 local Japanese blokes in his goddamn stupid insulting pisstake frankenmess rugby football forward packs.

 

[Dctarget]

Joseph to step down as Japan coach after Rugby World Cup: reports

Jamie Joseph has announced plans to step down as Japan head coach after this year's Rugby World Cup, local media reported. The New Zealander led the Brave Blossoms to the World Cup quarterfinals for the first time on home soil four years ago and will coach the team again at…

japantoday.com

Sharp reading of the tea leaves from JJ here.

He can see the residency thing changing from 3 out to 5 years will sludge up the works in his gaijin mercenary poaching pipeline and - god forbid - he might have to actually select more than 4 local Japanese blokes in his goddamn stupid insulting pisstake frankenmess rugby football forward packs.

I have no idea what you're talking about, they're all locals. No one stands out?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Manu Tuilagi has expressed interest in qualifying for Samoa, if so he'd be eligible for them at RWC 2027 but he'd be 35 so could be a bridge too far for him? Would make him the fifth Tuilagi brother to represent Samoa which would surely be unique? I seem to recall four representing SA way back (before @Dan54's time, even ) but five has surely never happened.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Maybe but the fact he's always injured might just stretch out his ability to get there if he wants to.