The Pulverisation of Australian Rugby

[Teh Other Dave]

I'm sorry, but any organisation that hires Mark Arbib, one of the 'faceless men', as a consultant are already on the slippery slope.

 

[Quick Hands]

That's the point QH. Soccer had thousands at the grass roots but it wasn't harnessed properly. Changing administration won't change that for rugby.

It's easier to get people interested in the A-League/Socceroos if they are already interested in Soccer.

You can bag the administration all you like, but they've put in place Junior Pathways, the NRC and are doing what they can to get more broadcast money to fund doing more. Hard to spend money on the grass roots when you have no money.

Soccer was big at the bottom but disorganized at the top. From your statement I'd say rugby has overachieved in Australian when you look at what it draws from.

That's not really the point I was making, which was that we won't be able to do a lot of the things that we would like to do unless the administration is working properly. Even with all it's advantages, soccer couldn't make any headway until it fixed up its admin and the same will apply to rugby, the things which IISIT was talking about are all things we sould be aiming for. None of them will occur while the administration is a basket case.

 

[Quick Hands]

don't get too concerned, soccer is a summer sport these days, they are cricket's competition

we have enough to be concerned with the NRL & AFL

Summer sport only at the top though. The grass roots is a winter sport and the socceroos now play almost year round. It wasn't called the sleeping giant of Australian sport for nothing.

 

[Quick Hands]

I am not sure I agree TWAS. We may have over achieved sometime in the past but we are certainly underachieving to a very high standard now.

Soccer is a world game with a big following in Australia, especially with such a large immigrant population. They just killed us with petty nationalism massively outperforming petty provincialism in the race to the bottom.

In the long run both sports have a natural advantage because they are global games. Rugby is now an Olympic sport with men and women both competing at an elite level. This is so important I think the NRL will spend a lot of their available dough trying to expand internationally.

The ARU is failing on this. I don't know what they should be doing but when the top 3 (Chairman, CEO and #2) were all at the same school within 4 years of each other (MW/BP 77, Rob Clarke 1981?) it is a bit hard to imagine they do not suffer from group think and will not come up with some dramatic new ideas and vision.

I have been waiting for a 3rd tier since about 1984 so I am a fan of it as a necessary path towards being one of the best nations. Again an enormous amount of money has been ploughed into it. There were other cheaper alternatives and I hope we aim for a more modest first step next time. 9 teams at $350k + Fox $1m. At least $4m, will there be that much dough around next year?

I've made the point about Olympic status for some time. Unfortunately a lot of traditional rugby types look down their noses at 7s. It is our best way to get into non-traditional rugby areas and handled properly could be the saviour of the code in Australia.

 

[Train Without a Station]

That's not really the point I was making, which was that we won't be able to do a lot of the things that we would like to do unless the administration is working properly. Even with all it's advantages, soccer couldn't make any headway until it fixed up its admin and the same will apply to rugby, the things which IISIT was talking about are all things we sould be aiming for. None of them will occur while the administration is a basket case.

Yes but my point is that everybody is just broadly calling the administration a basket case. Much like the last one. And the one before that.

For all we know they are doing pretty well with what they have to work with. Just because the code isn't thriving, doesn't mean they are poor. I'm not passing judgement on the administration either way here, I just don't understand your logic.

As you noted with soccer, the code already was thriving. FFA just wasn't able to benefit from that. If this administration is shithouse, a shiny new one isn't going to do shit because the base isn't there, like it was with soccer.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I've made the point about Olympic status for some time. Unfortunately a lot of traditional rugby types look down their noses at 7s. It is our best way to get into non-traditional rugby areas and handled properly could be the saviour of the code in Australia.

I'm always curious as to why people think that Rugby 7s will be any more successful at driving people to the sport than hockey, handball, basketball, volleyball, water polo or any other team sport at the Olympics? Especially as it looks at the moment like we're in no real danger of challenging for gold

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm always curious as to why people think that Rugby 7s will be any more successful at driving people to the sport than hockey, handball, basketball, volleyball, water polo or any other team sport at the Olympics? Especially as it looks at the moment like we're in no real danger of challenging for gold

Because there isn't the same level of contact, you don't need scrummaging skills and therefore the game isn't as technical for new players/coaches/parents. In fact it's a very easy game to watch once or twice and be able to understand what is going on.

IPSHA (the independent primary schools) ran rugby 7s as a sport for the first time this year. It met with some opposition from some of the more traditional schools who bascially ignored it, but guess what - it got more kids playing rugby, it exceeded the expectations of even its most optimistic supporters and next year more schools will be entering. I saw more boys of SE Asian and sub-continental backgrounds playing rugby than I have ever seen anywhere - in some cases more than half of teams.

Changing immigration patterns mean that the anglo-celtic demographic shrinks every year as a percentage of the Australian population - particulalry in a city like Sydney. Parents from these non-anglo backgrounds have little or no connection with rugby and from my conversations with them on the sideline they liked the idea of their boys playing 7s - a little contact but not too much and running around with their mates catching the ball and hopefully scoring tries, they weren't that keen or knowledgable about the 15 a-side game.

 

[Quick Hands]

As you noted with soccer, the code already was thriving. FFA just wasn't able to benefit from that. If this administration is shithouse, a shiny new one isn't going to do shit because the base isn't there, like it was with soccer.

But that's the point, soccer wasn't thriving - despite large numbers at the bottom the game went broke at least twice and had to be bailed out by the government. The last time the government bailed them out, a condition was that they had to fix their structure and admin up.

Admin might not be sexy, but it is essential to any well-run sport or well-run team. In just about every case I can think of poorly performing clubs and sports have a poor administration.

 

[Train Without a Station]

No QH. Soccer was thriving. Australian administration was not. But a good administration had a thriving sport to draw on.

 

[Muglair]

The whole advantage is INTERNATIONAL! We get dragged along with the success and expansion of the international game even if we only do a quarter decent off field job

Rugby's status in Eastern Europe and China has gone up dramatically because it is an Olympic sport. New nations such as Kenya can advance much faster because 7s is simpler than the 15 game with a lot less technical shit to learn.

Like anything else people start with the simple to understand short version to a more complex one, enjoying the intricacy as they go.

We will struggle over time to maintain top 3 status given the improvement we can expect from other nations. On the other hand there will be greater opportunities for players, hopefully influencing youngsters away from the other 3 codes.

Back to the administration point. It is no point trying to assess this or past administration performance, or whether they have had opportunity, have not had resources, unfairly experienced problems. The simple fact is that what we are doing is not working. With respect to past administrations, well that is how we got here. No answers there either.

I have been personally involved in 3 turnarounds taking failed sporting clubs from the brink of extinction back to success. It starts and is supported all the way by strong off field administration. The same rules apply as a business turnaround.

Clarity over where you want to be
Identify opportunities and threats in the environment
Honesty over where you are now, how you got there and what does not work, strengths, weaknesses
Find leaders
Set a plan to get from a to b
Disciplined and honest execution of the plan

You know it won't happen with the current board

 

[It is what it is]

I've made the point about Olympic status for some time. Unfortunately a lot of traditional rugby types look down their noses at 7s. It is our best way to get into non-traditional rugby areas and handled properly could be the saviour of the code in Australia.

The one day game (helped along by being played at night) certainly breathed some life into cricket, just like the 20/20 has more recently.
It could be the way to attract a younger generation too.

 

[MarkJ]

Think soccer for a moment, they were a basket case for decades, riven by ethnic and political tensions, petty empire building etc. They had thousands of juniors and volunteer coaches at the grass roots, but they were still a distant 4th in the football landscape. Look at soccer now - all that really happened was they got their administration in order and with a bit of hard work the Socceroos are now sellout crowds for home matches, Sydney and Melbourne derbies attract 35,000-40,000 people to club matches. In fact , they've gone forward at about the same speed that we have gone backwards.

Having a billionaire backer willing to tip in a fair whack of his own money certainly helped improve soccer's fortunes too.

 

[It is what it is]

Having a billionaire backer willing to tip in a fair whack of his own money certainly helped improve soccer's fortunes too.

Yes it did help.
What he also brought in spades was Govt lobbying power to gain investment and support for World Cup bids and other.

 

[RugbyReg]

Yes it did help.
What he also brought in spades was Govt lobbying power to gain investment and support for World Cup bids and other.

they came together. The Govt decided to invest massive money into the sport on the proviso the governance changed and Captain Westfield was put in place as Chairman.

 

[Quick Hands]

No QH. Soccer was thriving. Australian administration was not. But a good administration had a thriving sport to draw on.

Our views of thriving clearly differ.

 

[It is what it is]

they came together. The Govt decided to invest massive money into the sport on the proviso the governance changed and Captain Westfield was put in place as Chairman.

Thank you.
Now, are you thinking what I'm thinking here?

 

[Train Without a Station]

despite large numbers at the bottom the game went broke at least twice and had to be bailed out by the government

The game was thriving. How the governance of the game performed it was irrelevant. If there are large numbers of supporters and players, the game is thriving.

The administration of the sport was very poor, and that support was poorly captured.

Rugby, lacks those numbers at the bottom. It did before Pulver. It did before JON. It did before Flowers. It did before JON the first time.

FFA engaged EPL fans, local players, etc. to support the A-League and the Socceroos. The ARU needs to build these fans, as the amounts of rugby fans that do not support the ARU's income streams is negligible.

 

[Quick Hands]

The administration of the sport was very poor, and that support was poorly captured.

Does this remind you of another sport at the moment?

 

[formerflanker]

don't get too concerned, soccer is a summer sport these days, they are cricket's competition

we have enough to be concerned with the NRL & AFL

That may change soon. I see a lot of futsal happening in summer, and many junior soccer clubs in Canberra are now conducting trials for next winter's selections.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Does this remind you of another sport at the moment?

I guess I must be missing all these rugby followers out there then. Because where I stand the code has been shrinking in interest of any level, not just those which the ARU profit from, for over a decade.

Must be Pulver's fault though.