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PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
We do have the benefit of 70% refs in the S14 being Saffers helping us getting ready via the warmups and giving advice to the franchises. Once the S14 starts we'll be in pole position. Our lot love counter rucking and thats the way to go now. No more fattys in the backline.
Myself think its a shite ruling, love the contest at the breakdowns and now you get a lot of moere holding on and not releasing and forcing a long arm penalty , 3 free points. This will cause a lot more kicking in the matches and missing the real deal (attacking and open rugby) completely by the law makers.
Myself think its a shite ruling, love the contest at the breakdowns and now you get a lot of moere holding on and not releasing and forcing a long arm penalty , 3 free points. This will cause a lot more kicking in the matches and missing the real deal (attacking and open rugby) completely by the law makers.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Boet to be honest WP & Stormers played the wide traditional since before you were born I suppose. Thats the biggest ingredient they brought to SA rugby for a long long time. Things have change lately, I'll admit that but then the ELVs have brought us (the Brutes) the title in 2009, Aus not even one semi contender.Refabit said:
Myself watch a fair bit of our schoolboy rugby (probably the strongest and biggest base in the world) and close scores was the order of the day between the strong teams pre ELV. ELV on schoolboy level has change our young ones games completely and look like our wise lot have kept the good ones and just maybe you'll see us growing even stronger when they come through to top level.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Some observations on posts in this thread....
The cornerstone of SOUTH AFRICAN rugby is a strong pack, solid kicking game, good counter and power defense.
On the local scene, teams like the Stormers play a MUCH more open style, as traditionally has the Cheetahs. Problem is they have been shit at it lately. The game evolved and our teams did not.
Then came rule changes, and voila, our bread and butter game fitted in nicely thank you very farking much.
Having said that go tell the 50,000 going nuts at Loftus they don't like tries and that they should not like the pasting of 60 whatever points handed to the Chiefs and the snotting of the Crusaders the week before. If that final against the Chiefs was not open then I have no fucking clue whatsoever. I'm not goign to look for try stats from the 2009 S14 but I think the Bulls scored their good share...and not just through fatties.
I'm a Saffer and I like an open ended game as much as anyone else. I also like the tight game, and I think it's fair to say us Saffers like a tight game a lot more than Australians. We grew up watching big blokes bashing each other and the props ate first at the dinner table.
To suggest that Saffers dislike an open game is nonsense and I am not just referring to the post above but I think it's a commonly held belief. We just aren't as obsessed about it because there's no NRL and AFL breathing down our necks for kids, eyeballs and disposable dollars in SA. Hence no real incentive to change things. And why change something that you're basically happy with?
There are two big misconceptions going around at the moment:
1. Everyone outside of Australia don't care about the rules and its up to Australia to create the impetus for change. Not true. There is enough awareness but the problem is it is going to take time and JON needs tries or he loses ground to the other codes. Unfortuantely nobody outside Australia shares the urgency.
2. Administrators and fans here in Australia seem to think that people outside of our country (I mean Australia) believe tries have to be scored for rugby to be exciting. Today JON goes on again about the game having to be more exciting and he seems to think he is speaking on everyone's behalf. Speak to the Frogs and the Poms and on the whole they are happy enough.
Open game? What is that? I think a large part of it is romantically missing the days Ella popped a pass or Campese does a goose step. The game has changed.
A new Australian game WILL evolve, and the sign are there that it is. Unfortunatley it will be acompanied by lots of misconception and whinging about how horrible the game is. Well it's not. The Tahs are Brumbies need to win, the Reds need to do better, and the Wallabies need to improve and suddenty the whole climate will be better. I really dont thin'k we are far away from all that happening.
I'm not going to be popular for saying this but suddenly the rest of the world is to blame that the Tahs couldn't score tries last year. The problem started with the breakdown (its a fuckup but fear not its going to be a different fuckup this year - penalties for different reasons - premature hope is being placed in this new interpretation) and the second because of a culture of firing coaches so what would you do if you were Hickey? Take no risks. The end.
If the Tahs had scored a few more, grabbed a home semi, played a blinder with four or five tries and made the final, a LOT of this negative sentiment would have been avoided. Oh and beating those frock wearing hillbillies would have helped.
Imagine for a second. The Tahs and Brumbies make semis, one goes onto a final they may or may not win...meanwhile the Reds knock over a couple of big teams under link and finish mid-table...Wallabies beat Autumn visitors, win their two opening 3N games. Let's say all these games happen with scorelines like 21-13, 25-19, and an average of two or three tries only per team.
NOBODY IS GOING TO GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE ITS WINNING RUGBY AND THERE IS POSITIVE MOMENTUM.
That is all.
The cornerstone of SOUTH AFRICAN rugby is a strong pack, solid kicking game, good counter and power defense.
On the local scene, teams like the Stormers play a MUCH more open style, as traditionally has the Cheetahs. Problem is they have been shit at it lately. The game evolved and our teams did not.
Then came rule changes, and voila, our bread and butter game fitted in nicely thank you very farking much.
Having said that go tell the 50,000 going nuts at Loftus they don't like tries and that they should not like the pasting of 60 whatever points handed to the Chiefs and the snotting of the Crusaders the week before. If that final against the Chiefs was not open then I have no fucking clue whatsoever. I'm not goign to look for try stats from the 2009 S14 but I think the Bulls scored their good share...and not just through fatties.
I'm a Saffer and I like an open ended game as much as anyone else. I also like the tight game, and I think it's fair to say us Saffers like a tight game a lot more than Australians. We grew up watching big blokes bashing each other and the props ate first at the dinner table.
To suggest that Saffers dislike an open game is nonsense and I am not just referring to the post above but I think it's a commonly held belief. We just aren't as obsessed about it because there's no NRL and AFL breathing down our necks for kids, eyeballs and disposable dollars in SA. Hence no real incentive to change things. And why change something that you're basically happy with?
There are two big misconceptions going around at the moment:
1. Everyone outside of Australia don't care about the rules and its up to Australia to create the impetus for change. Not true. There is enough awareness but the problem is it is going to take time and JON needs tries or he loses ground to the other codes. Unfortuantely nobody outside Australia shares the urgency.
2. Administrators and fans here in Australia seem to think that people outside of our country (I mean Australia) believe tries have to be scored for rugby to be exciting. Today JON goes on again about the game having to be more exciting and he seems to think he is speaking on everyone's behalf. Speak to the Frogs and the Poms and on the whole they are happy enough.
Open game? What is that? I think a large part of it is romantically missing the days Ella popped a pass or Campese does a goose step. The game has changed.
A new Australian game WILL evolve, and the sign are there that it is. Unfortunatley it will be acompanied by lots of misconception and whinging about how horrible the game is. Well it's not. The Tahs are Brumbies need to win, the Reds need to do better, and the Wallabies need to improve and suddenty the whole climate will be better. I really dont thin'k we are far away from all that happening.
I'm not going to be popular for saying this but suddenly the rest of the world is to blame that the Tahs couldn't score tries last year. The problem started with the breakdown (its a fuckup but fear not its going to be a different fuckup this year - penalties for different reasons - premature hope is being placed in this new interpretation) and the second because of a culture of firing coaches so what would you do if you were Hickey? Take no risks. The end.
If the Tahs had scored a few more, grabbed a home semi, played a blinder with four or five tries and made the final, a LOT of this negative sentiment would have been avoided. Oh and beating those frock wearing hillbillies would have helped.
Imagine for a second. The Tahs and Brumbies make semis, one goes onto a final they may or may not win...meanwhile the Reds knock over a couple of big teams under link and finish mid-table...Wallabies beat Autumn visitors, win their two opening 3N games. Let's say all these games happen with scorelines like 21-13, 25-19, and an average of two or three tries only per team.
NOBODY IS GOING TO GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE ITS WINNING RUGBY AND THERE IS POSITIVE MOMENTUM.
That is all.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
The Tahs were their own worst enemies last year, in regard to not scoring tries. Kafer had some good analysis a few weeks in, which showed their inability to spread the ball when needed, even with dominant forwards and going to forward. Somehow, they either turned it in to another forward, or the inside backs died with the ball and kicked many an opportunity.
spectator
Bob Davidson (42)
I like this post a lot, well written Blue!Blue said:
There are two big misconceptions going around at the moment:
1. Everyone outside of Australia don't care about the rules and its up to Australia to create the impetus for change. Not true. There is enough awareness but the problem is it is going to take time and JON needs tries or he loses ground to the other codes. Unfortuantely nobody outside Australia shares the urgency.2. Administrators and fans here in Australia seem to think that people outside of our country (I mean Australia) believe tries have to be scored for rugby to be exciting. Today JON goes on again about the game having to be more exciting and he seems to think he is speaking on everyone's behalf. Speak to the Frogs and the Poms and on the whole they are happy enough.
At the end of the day that is probably what it boils down to..The code is not as under the same threat (percieved or real) as in many other countries.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Ok lets talk (not fighting!)about it then.
Maybe a outsider like myself will understand the situation better. Do JON honestly think chopping and changing the rules will make it better?
Rugby in SA surely have their own challenges. Poofball (now specially with the WC) surely the biggest winter sport. Myself also think field hockey (in the big Rugby Schools) winning field pretty quick in winter.
Maybe a outsider like myself will understand the situation better. Do JON honestly think chopping and changing the rules will make it better?
Rugby in SA surely have their own challenges. Poofball (now specially with the WC) surely the biggest winter sport. Myself also think field hockey (in the big Rugby Schools) winning field pretty quick in winter.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Paarl, rugby is the third code played with an oval ball and it is falling further and further behind Aussie Rules and Rugby League. It's a real issue and whether it's true or not, the perceived lack of "entertainment" from rugby is constantly being talked about in the media and used by the rival games to beat up on rugby (NRL TV shows blatantly have a pop at rugby every week).
The Aussie teams and Wallabies haven't been doing so well so the NRL backed by their media are going "look at that crap game. Come see ours. We score lots of tries and prtovide better entertainment." Then the Reds and Tahs play to a tryless results and the media and NRL hornblowers go "We told you so." Next week's papers are full of how crap rugby is.
Also what you may or may not know is that people who support NRL hardly ever supported rugby in the first place. They did not play it at school (a small percentage maybe) and they donlt watch it and don't care. They are the majority.
Example: Take about half the SA rugby supporter base away tomorrow and see? There's a BIG problem.
So JON needs more entertainment but I think he rally needs some winning.
Trust me. It is a huge problem. It's not JON has nothing better do do. He is in a real fight. SA and the other rugby countries donlt have any problem like this at all because ion most cases poofball and rugby don't really compete.
The Aussie teams and Wallabies haven't been doing so well so the NRL backed by their media are going "look at that crap game. Come see ours. We score lots of tries and prtovide better entertainment." Then the Reds and Tahs play to a tryless results and the media and NRL hornblowers go "We told you so." Next week's papers are full of how crap rugby is.
Also what you may or may not know is that people who support NRL hardly ever supported rugby in the first place. They did not play it at school (a small percentage maybe) and they donlt watch it and don't care. They are the majority.
Example: Take about half the SA rugby supporter base away tomorrow and see? There's a BIG problem.
So JON needs more entertainment but I think he rally needs some winning.
Trust me. It is a huge problem. It's not JON has nothing better do do. He is in a real fight. SA and the other rugby countries donlt have any problem like this at all because ion most cases poofball and rugby don't really compete.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
OK I understand fully. Myself think the biggest problem is that rugby isnt a school sport in Aus, like in SA. Hope I understood correct and feel free to help me with this one.
Thats where rugby is strong in SA. The 6 years olds , thats the bottom of the sport structure. If rugby is only provided via clubs then its a big problem. Thats where our rugby culture starts, at the age of 6. Dad started there, Granny started there and the next generation will start there. Like you stated in your nice post, in our Prymary Schools, the fatty is the hero in the school, he is usually the strongest biggest kid in Prymary or High school. So obvious the young ones look up to them and the fattiest in the age group all want to do the stuff you mention.
So if you want to get people into rugby, you have to change at the very bottom and it will take a generation to change it. Unfortanetly not a quick fix thing but I do understand the differenses.
Thats where rugby is strong in SA. The 6 years olds , thats the bottom of the sport structure. If rugby is only provided via clubs then its a big problem. Thats where our rugby culture starts, at the age of 6. Dad started there, Granny started there and the next generation will start there. Like you stated in your nice post, in our Prymary Schools, the fatty is the hero in the school, he is usually the strongest biggest kid in Prymary or High school. So obvious the young ones look up to them and the fattiest in the age group all want to do the stuff you mention.
So if you want to get people into rugby, you have to change at the very bottom and it will take a generation to change it. Unfortanetly not a quick fix thing but I do understand the differenses.
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
Mate, we get our kids playing sport too. But they're playing all sorts of stuff. Australia came 4th, 4th and 6th in the last 3 Olympics because our kids are out there swimming, playing hockey, doing Little Athletics, rowing, whatever.
South Africa does worse than New Zealand!
I can't stand rugby league, soccer or AFL, but I like Olympic sports and am pleased that our kids have a few different opportunities in Australia.
South Africa does worse than New Zealand!
I can't stand rugby league, soccer or AFL, but I like Olympic sports and am pleased that our kids have a few different opportunities in Australia.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Yup
Scarf you beat me to it. If you look at the variety of sports kids can choose now and the level of coaching they can get, I see dark days for rugby. Add to that the moms who don't want their boys smashed up and it looks even gloomier.
The 6 year olds here have waaayyyy more choice than their counterparts in SA. In a lot of cases kids end up playing rugby or soccer in SA because there are no other choices.
Comparison between SA and Aus is pointless. They are two vastly different socio economic environments and Australia has a much better local / neighbourhood sporting environment than even the richest areas in SA (I mean clubs, facilities etc).
If I had boys? They would not play rugby. I love the game to bits but there are better choices that serve you better in the long run. At 40 my knees, back, fucked up looking nose and constantly sore neck is enough for me to discourage any boy to ever play the game.
Scarf you beat me to it. If you look at the variety of sports kids can choose now and the level of coaching they can get, I see dark days for rugby. Add to that the moms who don't want their boys smashed up and it looks even gloomier.
The 6 year olds here have waaayyyy more choice than their counterparts in SA. In a lot of cases kids end up playing rugby or soccer in SA because there are no other choices.
Comparison between SA and Aus is pointless. They are two vastly different socio economic environments and Australia has a much better local / neighbourhood sporting environment than even the richest areas in SA (I mean clubs, facilities etc).
If I had boys? They would not play rugby. I love the game to bits but there are better choices that serve you better in the long run. At 40 my knees, back, fucked up looking nose and constantly sore neck is enough for me to discourage any boy to ever play the game.
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
I've got a 5yo boy. Rugby is pretty rough compared to most sports. But it does teach certain values that you can't get elsewhere. Certainly not in soccer or tennis.
My 8yo daughter does Little Athletics and they have a really positive environment, but it's still an individual sport. I hate netball so I'm going to try to steer her towards hockey.
This thread has a few twists and turns!
My 8yo daughter does Little Athletics and they have a really positive environment, but it's still an individual sport. I hate netball so I'm going to try to steer her towards hockey.
This thread has a few twists and turns!
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