The one and only Wallaby Coach thread

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Hamish saying not only does he have no regrets about hiring jones....but he'd do it all over again.

what an extraordinarily ridiculous comment to make. how can you look at this dumpster fire and say you would make it again. it's absurd and i would say 100% not true.

Don't agree. He is justifying his original decision with that statement. I for one thought it was harsh on Rennie but also was impressed by the brutality of it by Hammer/RA (something not normally seen in rugby). Simply put does Rennie or Jones give us a better chance of winning the RWC? They decided Jones and most agreed (hard not to with his RWC record). Despite not winning any of the first 4 tests we seemed to improve with each. The dumpster fire occured once he selected his RWC squad and went completely off script which I don't think anyone saw coming. What was Hammer/RA going to do at that point? Jones has ruined his reputation in Australia.

 

[Dctarget]

Don't agree. He is justifying his original decision with that statement. I for one thought it was harsh on Rennie but also was impressed by the brutality of it by Hammer/Rugby Australia (something not normally seen in rugby). Simply put does Rennie or Jones give us a better chance of winning the RWC? They decided Jones and most agreed (hard not to with his RWC record). Despite not winning any of the first 4 tests we seemed to improve with each. The dumpster fire occured once he selected his RWC squad and went completely off script which I don't think anyone saw coming. What was Hammer/Rugby Australia going to do at that point? Jones has ruined his reputation in Australia.

Think the consensus is the dumpster fire started burning with his poor quality of assistants.

Though, was Rennie guaranteed to have good assistants this year? I remember they started fleeing before Rennie was sacked.

 

[stillmissit]

No. It applies to the state unions even more so. Rugby Australia is the frontman for rugby in Australia, but their hands are tied by the federated model. It's the state unions which bear more of the responsibility for the situation we're in, yet it's only ever Rugby Australia that cops the heat, at least in the media.

This could be true but I would like a couple of examples. I remember John O'Neill talking about the problems with state admin blazers years ago. Your post (if true) is just more proof of the need to go right through the whole damned thing from top to bottom.

 

[Braveheart81]

Simply put does Rennie or Jones give us a better chance of winning the RWC?

Looking at it purely in a binary sense was always a mistake though.

The Wallabies weren't in a position to do well at the RWC with with Rennie as the coach. The issue was grossly overestimating how much we could move the needle by switching to Eddie Jones. Clearly it was never going to materially change the Wallabies' prospects given the short amount of time available and the fact that we were also onboarding new (substandard) assistant coaches.

We spent a shitload of money we couldn't afford to barely move the needle. It was always a terrible investment.

Who knows what would have happened if we'd only appointed Eddie Jones now? He would have had some clear air with it very obviously being a rebuilding phase heading towards the Lions series in 2025. Instead all of the goodwill was destroyed in months for absolutely no gain and it made his ongoing position untenable.

 

[Slim 293]

Though, was Rennie guaranteed to have good assistants this year? I remember they started fleeing before Rennie was sacked.

I would like to think that Rennie would've had a much more sensible approach in replacing Wisemantel and possibly McKellar, and hypothetically given Gilmore and Fisher expanded roles in the interim, or made use of whatever domestic resources he could for the RWC... but that is certainly one of the unknowns of that situation.

 

[Tomthumb]

I would like to think that Rennie would've had a much more sensible approach in replacing Wisemantel and possibly McKellar, and hypothetically given Gilmore and Fisher expanded roles in the interim, or made use of whatever domestic resources he could for the RWC... but that is certainly one of the unknowns of that situation.

The other unknown was why did Wisemantel quit in the first place?

 

[stillmissit]

This could be true but I would like a couple of examples. I remember John O'Neill talking about the problems with state admin blazers years ago. Your post (if true) is just more proof of the need to go right through the whole damned thing from top to bottom.

This post is redundant. I didn't realise that a full review was done in 2020 and a report was put to RA who has done nothing about it.

'Rome has been burning for quite some time': Former Rugby Australia boss calls for review

With the Wallabies' Rugby World Cup hopes hanging by a thread, a former Rugby Australia chairman and Super Rugby chief say the sport needs an urgent review. But Rugby Australian says action is what's needed.

www.abc.net.au

Stooke approached RA in 2020 proposing to set up a technical advisory committee, which was endorsed by the head organisation.

The committee was the brainchild of Stooke, the former Wallabies coach, Bob Dwyer, former skipper Nick Farr-Jones and administrator and former national coaching director Dick Marks.

The quartet were joined by former Wallabies Barry Honan and Roger Gould and set about talking to rugby clubs and coaches around the country.

The committee wrote a paper for RA in 2020 on how to fix the game's problems at the grassroots and player development.

Stooke said there was a lack of quality coaching at the junior levels.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Don't agree. He is justifying his original decision with that statement. I for one thought it was harsh on Rennie but also was impressed by the brutality of it by Hammer/Rugby Australia (something not normally seen in rugby). Simply put does Rennie or Jones give us a better chance of winning the RWC? They decided Jones and most agreed (hard not to with his RWC record). Despite not winning any of the first 4 tests we seemed to improve with each. The dumpster fire occured once he selected his RWC squad and went completely off script which I don't think anyone saw coming. What was Hammer/Rugby Australia going to do at that point? Jones has ruined his reputation in Australia.

sure
but my point is - how can you look at what has occurred and say that in hindsight you'd do it again. completely agree that it went tits up with the squad selected but i also don't think we were improving that much to the point we were eclipsing rennies side so i think its comical self preservation to say you'd do it all again.
if you had your chance, you'd keep rennie throught he cup and then not renew him and either bring in jones with a full cycle or someone else with a full cycle.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

all this being said, i think we need continuity to see out the plan at least for the next 18 months
centralize, get a tv contract done etc then move hammer on.

 

[wamberal99]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Personally I would prefer to take stock of the present situation (pretty dire at the senior level, but some good young talent coming through - as usual) and plan for the future.

I do not believe it would be a good idea to chase one of the top ranked international coaches. That's a waste of time, and smacks of desperation. I would prefer us to appoint an Australian coach. We should employ a specialist head hunter who specialises in sport, preferably rugby, fo find the best available Aussie. We should pick him and stick with him, through thick and thin, until after the next RWC.

Yes, the grass roots are vital (although I do not see any coherent explanation of exactly what the grass roots are, and how they can be nourished) but the health of the Wallabies is crucial.

 

[wamberal99]

all this being said, i think we need continuity to see out the plan at least for the next 18 months
centralize, get a tv contract done etc then move hammer on.

I was typing my post when you were typing this. Great minds, etc.

 

[stillmissit]

Yes, the grass roots are vital (although I do not see any coherent explanation of exactly what the grass roots are, and how they can be nourished) but the health of the Wallabies is crucial.

The report by Stookes et al covers this issue but I have never seen a copy of the report. Has anyone here seen it??????

 

[Dctarget]

Brad Thorn hasn't signed anywhere has he?

Wouldn't be surprised to see a Larkham led coaching group with Gilmore + Thorn as assistants.

 

[Hawko]

I was typing my post when you were typing this. Great minds, etc.

Do you really trust Hammer to get it right? Based on what, his terrific record over the last 12 months? The earlier you can cut the cancer out the more likely it won't have spread too far.

 

[Derpus]

Brad Thorn hasn't signed anywhere has he?

Wouldn't be surprised to see a Larkham led coaching group with Gilmore + Thorn as assistants.

Agree on Thorn. I think he's probably a bit limited as a head coach but Australian rugby must try and keep him involved in some capacity as I think he clearly has value to add.

 

[wamberal99]

Do you really trust Hammer to get it right? Based on what, his terrific record over the last 12 months? The earlier you can cut the cancer out the more likely it won't have spread too far.

Maybe, I suspect that he is here to stay. Looking back, we do not seem to have had too many "successful" chairmen.

 

[dru]

Agree on Thorn. I think he's probably a bit limited as a head coach but Australian rugby must try and keep him involved in some capacity as I think he clearly has value to add.

Thorn is a huge asset to rugby in Australia. I'd suggest he made HC too early, and possibly hit a ceiling because of it. It would be great to see him continue the journey building a broader repertoire ultimately to return to greater things.

From his shoes though, League surely has an attraction at some point.

 

[rodha]

Don't agree. He is justifying his original decision with that statement. I for one thought it was harsh on Rennie but also was impressed by the brutality of it by Hammer/Rugby Australia (something not normally seen in rugby). Simply put does Rennie or Jones give us a better chance of winning the RWC? They decided Jones and most agreed (hard not to with his RWC record).

More revisionist history from Eddie's biggest fluffer on here until recently, when will you sydney old-boys see the wood for the trees??

Dave's coached team would've won all their pool matches 4/4, a rugga championship win against Arg at home, another win against those Argies in the quarters, followed by a very probable bronze medal finish, Rennie bows out with a 45% success rate & gets remembered as the savant who did his best to navigate some incredibly challenging external circumstances - like Covid putting a wrecking ball through RA's player development programs NRC, U20's, etc.. and Aussie players becoming ineffective against top level opposition due to isolation creating piss poor habits from playing insular 5 team comp of micky mouse only aussie league for 3 wretched years...

 

[eastman]

Looking at it purely in a binary sense was always a mistake though.

I’d also question how much due diligence McLennan did before signing a contract with Jones.

Did he speak to anyone from the English rugby set-up about Jones? Did they have detailed conversations about what went wrong last time Eddie was leading the Wallabies?

Jones was always likely to be a disaster if you look at what he’s done over the last 5 years. McLennan made a captains call based on fond memories of the 2000s.

 

[Tomthumb]

Jones was always likely to be a disaster if you look at what he’s done over the last 5 years. McLennan made a captains call based on fond memories of the 2000s.

Eddie failed this time as Wallabies coach, but this isn’t true. He came 2nd in 2019 6 Nations and got to the World Cup final, and then won the 2020 6 nations. They stagnated in 2021 and 2022 but no where near as badly as the wallabies did over the same period

Ignoring all the success he’s had over the last two decades seems bizarre