The Number Eight Situation.

[naza]

Without Palu we have nothing.

Clearly another Super rugby franchise is the answer.

 

[TOCC]

call me crazy but i personally prefer the big solid number 8's like Palu, Kefu and Houston.

Houston still needs a fair bit of improvement, but i would personally prefer him starting in that position over a flanker or lock.

 

[fatprop]

Rocky Elsom an option for Robbie Deans as Wallabie No.8
By Bret Harris
April 14, 2010


With Wycliff Palu ruled out for the year with a knee injury, Wallabies coach Robbie Deans may have to do some lateral thinking to come up with a Test No.8.

There is no shortage of candidates. The names of Richard Brown, Stephen Hoiles, Scott Higginbotham, Leroy Houston and Ben Mowen immediately spring to mind.

But Deans should not discount the possibility of moving captain Rocky Elsom from blindside flanker to the back of the scrum.

Elsom has had experience at No.8, having played four Tests in that position and spending a lot of time at the back of the scrum for European Cup-winning team Leinster where his running game was a revelation.

Of all the backrowers in Australia, only Elsom has the powerful running to match Palu, who gave the Wallabies and New South Wales Waratahs much of their go forward.

With Elsom at No.8, Deans would have more options at blindside flanker.

Deans could tailor Australia's back row to suit strategy, depending on the conditions and the opposition.

He could go with two mobile openside flankers such as David Pocock and Matt Hodgson or Phil Waugh if he wanted to play an expansive, up-tempo game.

Or he could select a big blindside flanker such as Dean Mumm if he wanted to strengthen the set piece, particularly the lineout.

Deans may feel it would be overloading a relatively new captain with too much responsibility by asking him to play another position, but Elsom would have no qualms about it.

"It would be fine," Elsom said of playing No.8.

"I'd play any position in the back row.

"It wouldn't be a massive stretch. You have to look at the best back-row combination and move everyone around.

"I played No.8 at Leinster when Jamie Heaslip (Ireland No.8) wasn't playing. It was fine."

Elsom said the role of the back row had changed following the introduction of the new law interpretation at the breakdown.

"You play a little differently," Elsom said.

"You don't attack the ball as soon as the ball is on the ground as much. It's a different way of attacking the ball. But it results in as many turnovers, if not more."

Former Test coach Bob Dwyer, who discovered Elsom playing rugby league for the Canterbury-Bakstown Jersey Flegg side, thought he would be an excellent choice for No.8.

"There are a number of candidates, but Rocky could play No.8 for sure," Dwyer said.

"He played that role at Leinster. I remember seeing him running the ball from deep.

"He is powerful enough to give you a good shove in the scrum.

"The number eight also has to think about positional play more than the blindside flanker.

"He's the bloke who fills the gaps and covers potential problems. Rocky can do that."

 

[Scotty]

Sorry, just realised I addressed my post to the wrong person.

Should have said:

Gagger,

blah blah blah etc etc.

 

[Sully]

Fatprop. These guys are reading our forum and getting their ideas for articles right here! everything in Brett Harris's blurb is in this thread.

 

[fatprop]

Fatprop. These guys are reading our forum and getting their ideas for articles right here! everything in Brett Harris's blurb is in this thread.

Sully

It ain't that hard, we lack quality at 8, Elsom is the obvious choice as we can mix and match at 6 to get the balance right.

Actually Elsom is playing more like an 8 these days anyway, when he started he was much more a ball attacking, very high work rate 6.

He picks his mark more these days, and has soft hands for the back of the scrum, he will do at 8.

 

[matty_k]

Fatprop. These guys are reading our forum and getting their ideas for articles right here! everything in Brett Harris's blurb is in this thread.

We should test the theory. Let's make up some wrong but believable stuff and see what happens.

 

[Sully]

Fatprop. These guys are reading our forum and getting their ideas for articles right here! everything in Brett Harris's blurb is in this thread.

Sully

It ain't that hard, we lack quality at 8, Elsom is the obvious choice as we can mix and match at 6 to get the balance right.

Actually Elsom is playing more like an 8 these days anyway, when he started he was much more a ball attacking, very high work rate 6.

He picks his mark more these days, and has soft hands for the back of the scrum, he will do at 8.

Fatprop.
I agree to me it also makes the most sense. Moving Elsom to #8 and seeing who fits at Blindside seems to be the best option. The choice of who that person is seems to depend on which S14 Franchise you support. I'm certain we will see a few of them in the training squad and hope they pick up Higginbotham after seeing what a few months working in the Wallabies set up has done for other players at the Reds. Not saying that the Reds setup is not helping them just pointing out that Genia and Cooper started firing under Deans and Co.

 

[fatprop]

Yeah, I expect Higginbotham to get in the finishing school (the Aus squad) this season. He needs "refining" and I expect him to get 20 or 30 minutes off the bench in an early tests with Hodgsen starting at 6. The rest will be up to him.

 

[Scotty]

Yeah, I expect Higginbotham to get in the finishing school (the Aus squad) this season. He needs "refining" and I expect him to get 20 or 30 minutes off the bench in an early tests with Hodgsen starting at 6. The rest will be up to him.

Probably the most likely scenario, considering Mumm is likely required for 2nd row. May have been different if Horwill wasn't injured.

Hopefully Horwill and Palu will come back better than ever, however both seem to be slow starters after injury breaks.

 

[fatprop]

Yeah, I expect Higginbotham to get in the finishing school (the Aus squad) this season. He needs "refining" and I expect him to get 20 or 30 minutes off the bench in an early tests with Hodgsen starting at 6. The rest will be up to him.

Probably the most likely scenario, considering Mumm is likely required for 2nd row. May have been different if Horwill wasn't injured.

Hopefully Horwill and Palu will come back better than ever, however both seem to be slow starters after injury breaks.

Mumm hasn't played well at 6 for over two years, does great at lock though

 

[Newb]

Yeah, I expect Higginbotham to get in the finishing school (the Aus squad) this season. He needs "refining" and I expect him to get 20 or 30 minutes off the bench in an early tests with Hodgsen starting at 6. The rest will be up to him.

Probably the most likely scenario, considering Mumm is likely required for 2nd row. May have been different if Horwill wasn't injured.

Hopefully Horwill and Palu will come back better than ever, however both seem to be slow starters after injury breaks.

Mumm hasn't played well at 6 for over two years, does great at lock though

agreed. ends up looking out of sorts and doesn't seem to have the same impact. lock is where he is suited. anyone know what he prefers?

 

[CanadianRugby]

agreed. ends up looking out of sorts and doesn't seem to have the same impact. lock is where he is suited. anyone know what he prefers?

Blindside. I haven't actually heard him say that, just as a lock I can tell you that all locks believe they are just misunderstood 6s.

 

[Sully]

agreed. ends up looking out of sorts and doesn't seem to have the same impact. lock is where he is suited. anyone know what he prefers?

Blindside. I haven't actually heard him say that, just as a lock I can tell you that all locks believe they are just misunderstood 6s.

Funny as a lock, according to my coach, I was a misunderstood Prop so he moved me there and I never went back.

 

[James Buchanan]

Funny as a lock, according to my coach, I was a misunderstood Prop so he moved me there and I never went back.

That's a fair upgrade though

 

[matty_k]

Funny as a lock, according to my coach, I was a misunderstood Prop so he moved me there and I never went back.

Similar thing happened in my second last year of playing. But mine was more because of a lack of props. I was the shortest lock in our team so I promoted to the front row. It was so much more fun. I wish I had done it earlier.

 

[simonr]

Funny as a lock, according to my coach, I was a misunderstood Prop so he moved me there and I never went back.

Similar thing happened in my second last year of playing. But mine was more because of a lack of props. I was the shortest lock in our team so I promoted to the front row. It was so much more fun. I wish I had done it earlier.

plus, as a prop, you get to call a pie and six pack a seven course banquet

 

[naza]

call me crazy but i personally prefer the big solid number 8's like Palu, Kefu and Houston.

Houston still needs a fair bit of improvement, but i would personally prefer him starting in that position over a flanker or lock.

TOCC you crazy bastard, you are not alone. I like my no8s 120 kgs with a Tongan sidestep and a don't argue. Give me a gamebreaker over a grafter at 8 any day of the week. Add Jim Williams, Daniel Manu, Willie O and The Human Skewer Ilie Tabua to that list of hit men who left swathes of unconscious humans in their wake.

Andy Friend is deadset kidding.

"There's some very good other No.8s running around but they're more your direct, power-style types. Hoilesy is powerful too but he also has the subtlety of skill which I don't see in any other No.8 in the country."

Hoiles is a lightweight. He doesn't have the motor (ie: big arse) of a Houston.

 

[en_force_er]

Guys I'd personally be playing Elsom and Higginbotham at 6 and 8. I'd have Rocky pack at 8 on our feed and at 6 on their feed. The numbers they wear don't matter, we all know they both can pack down at 8 and 6

Higgs would be allotted the role of being a real hard man around the park since Rock can't really do that now that he has a C next to his name on the team sheet.

Rock is a decent 8 and has proved it in outings at test level a few years back and more recently for Leinster. Yes we will lack that explosiveness from the scrum that Houston (or more especially Palu) could potentially offer but we gain a much harder working loosey trio. Higgs, Pocock and Elsom would get through a whole heap of work around the park.

What do you guys think?

 

[tranquility]

ja, that's the trio that's seems to keep getting mooted.