The Kings are in!

[Brisbok]

The number of people who have mentioned Jantjies as a possible target for an Australian franchise is interesting. However, it is very unlikely that a young player with Springbok ambitions and in the current Springbok squad, will put his position at risk to come play in Australia at this stage of his career.

Yes, the Boks do select O/S players at times, but the preference is always for a local player first.

 

[Bowside]

The tahs dont need to sign marquee players. There are more than enough good players in NSW. By signing marquee players they will just further alienate their fanbase,

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't agree. I think Tahs fans were excited by the signing of Pretorius. It obviously didn't work out, but I don't think it alienated the fanbase in any way.

 

[Jiggles]

Pretorius was a good signing and it made sense. With Burgo going overseas (more should have been done to keep him, but what ever) a halfback option was really needed. McKibbin was unproven at this stage too. I think If I was Foley I would've chucked Pretorius on the wing at the back end of the season and given him a commission to get his hands on the ball as much as possible. It could've sparked something and been the difference in the games that they fell apart in.

 

[Blue]

Player movement is going to be interesting. Will the best Lions players go to PE on a one year contract? I think not. They will look for certainty.

Top players:
Cilliers - likely to got back home to Durban. Damn good player with a big future. Perfect for Charks as a bench prop and occasional starter on either side.
Waylon Murray - underrated centre. Career struggled with injury. Probably overseas to maximise years he has left? The Force should be all over this guy.
Josh - who knows but I am quite sure he is not leaving SA. Homeboy.
Walter Minnie - UK / France.
Doppies - likely UK.
Taute - Cape Town or Durban
Franco vd Merwe - any franchise in SA will do well to pick him up.
Butch - who gives a shit.
CJ vd Linde. see Butch.


Bold prediction: Elton Jantjes will play for the Bulls next year and M Steyn will head overseas.

Although Meyer has not said as much he will pick very few overseas players and he has intimated that players going overseas will have less chance of playing for SA. Ruan Pienaar is an exception and will remain one of possible only a handful. This will stop the top layers from moving so if the Force etc will pick up players from the Lions they wonlt be any of the best players. My 2c.

Paarl? Brissie? Rusty? What do you ouks reckon?

Anyway the Kings will not win a single game next year.

 

[Braveheart81]

Butch - who gives a shit.
CJ vd Linde. see Butch.

Heh.

 

[daz]

The tahs dont need to sign marquee players. There are more than enough good players in NSW. By signing marquee players they will just further alienate their fanbase,

This raises an interesting point. If a marquee player is brought in when there is potential to slot a local lad in, I can see how this might cause some fanbase discomfort.

On the other hand, what if the team were winning consistently? Take Pretorious as an example; what if the Tahs had a winning season and the experiment had worked? I am guessing that the Tah fanbase would not give a hoot who was in the team if they made finals.

 

[Redfugee]

Has there been any explanation about who will be playing for The Lions in the promotion/relegation game?

Are they talking about the 5th place team playing:
a) Currie Cup Lions (and if so, with or without the Currie Cup Lions playing for other teams).
b) Some other team that will be assembled for the sole purpose of the promotion/relegation game at the end of the Super season.

Either way, it doesn't make much sense unless the whole point is to ensure the Kings will win.

 

[Ash]

Franco vd Merwe would be a good pick up for either White or the Force.

Doppies and Jantjies also. Isn't Waylon Murray more a 13? If so, the Force have loads of them, just no 12s.

Really, I wonder what the contract situation is for most of the Lions players, or more precisely, if they can get out of their contracts. Whilst the Lions are fairly weak overall, some of those players are too damn good not to be playing provincial rugby. I'd expect to see most of the starting side either head overseas or to other SA provinces.

 

[AlexH]

At the same time, this will likely mean that the other teams in the SA conference (who will each play the Kings twice) will accumulate more points, pushing them further up the table.

How is that any different from the previous situation with the Lions?

 

[The Red Baron]

How is that any different from the previous situation with the Lions?

Quite different I would believe. 2 of the Lions 3 wins this year came at the expense of another South African team. Of the 8 games they played against SA opposition this year, it was 2 wins 6 losses. They beat the Cheetahs once and the Sharks once.

Only three of times did they concede a bonus point loss to SA opposition, twice against the Bulls, and Once against the Sharks.

If we work on the assumption that the Kings will get toweled every game next year, then the Cheetahs could potentially be up 6 points and the Sharks could potentially be up 5 points. The Stomers would potentially be up 2 points (each Stormers win this year against the Lions was without a bonus point). The only team that got maximum points from the Lions was the Bulls.

The Kings really could affect the balance of the conference more than the presence of the Lions. If the other four SA teams score maximum points against the Kings, then they will inevitably end up higher on the log.

 

[rustycruiser]

Doppies already signed with Benetton Treviso in Italy in May for two years, so one less to worry about. What a clusterfuck, which only Saru could engineer in their usual spectacular fashion. They couldn't organize a pissup in a brewery. This whole last minute relegation bright idea being the cherry on top.

 

[AlexH]

Quite different I would believe. 2 of the Lions 3 wins this year came at the expense of another South African team. Of the 8 games they played against SA opposition this year, it was 2 wins 6 losses. They beat the Cheetahs once and the Sharks once.

Only three of times did they concede a bonus point loss to SA opposition, twice against the Bulls, and Once against the Sharks.

If we work on the assumption that the Kings will get toweled every game next year, then the Cheetahs could potentially be up 6 points and the Sharks could potentially be up 5 points. The Stomers would potentially be up 2 points (each Stormers win this year against the Lions was without a bonus point). The only team that got maximum points from the Lions was the Bulls.

The Kings really could affect the balance of the conference more than the presence of the Lions. If the other four SA teams score maximum points against the Kings, then they will inevitably end up higher on the log.

If we are to adopt your assumptions then the Stormers would still have finished at the top of the log; the Cheetahs would still be well out of final's contention; and the Sharks would have played the Bulls at home for the semi-finals instead of the Reds away from home.

Looks pretty much the same to me.

 

[Brisbok]

If we are to adopt your assumptions then the Stormers would still have finished at the top of the log; the Cheetahs would still be well out of final's contention; and the Sharks would have played the Bulls at home for the semi-finals instead of the Reds away from home.

Looks pretty much the same to me.

Well for starters, your calculations are wrong there, because if you follow TRB's calculations exactly the Sharks would have finished above the Bulls and Crusaders. The preliminary finals would have then been Sharks vs Crusaders in Durban, Reds vs Bulls in Brisbane. From that point onwards the results would be dramatically different with the possibility of a different competition winner, or at least different finalists.

A bit besides the point really though. My initial post, which you quoted, was in response to BPC and Daz who were saying that the addition of the Kings would change or disprove what John Plumtree has been saying about the Australian Conference being the weakest. They were hinting that the South African conference would be weaker, when really it would be stronger all round, with one extremely poor bottom team.

 

[AlexH]

The Chiefs were hot favourites from day dot followed closely by the Crusaders.

The Sharks did remarkably well to make the finals but I doubt a change in the draw would have been the difference between them winning and losing the big one. They were never considered contenders in most rugby circles.

 

[The Red Baron]

Didn't stop them from making the final, despite not playing a single finals game at home.

 

[AlexH]

They were completely outclassed in the final long before the final twenty minutes when the travel factor usually kicks in.

 

[The Red Baron]

They were completely outclassed in the final long before the final twenty minutes when the travel factor usually kicks in.

Be that as it may, they still made the final. Again, despite not playing a single home game. I cannot say for certain whether they would have benefited from playing at home at least once, nor will I.

The issue is the inclusion of the Kings and how that will impact on SA sides. I am of the firm opinion that they will inflate the points of the other 4 SA teams. This is not an overall reflection on the conference.

Reality is, the difference between the Lions and the Kings in terms of competitiveness will not been known until next season. However, the Lions were at least competitive in most of their games. I do not hold the same hope for the Kings.

 

[PaarlBok]

As a Stormers supporter I'd like to have our Matie Lions (Jacobie Adriaanse & Callie Visagie) back. See a lot of Jantjies Aussie supporters, I'd have Jaco Taute over him anyday. Wont be surprise to see him heading south.

 

[Waylon]

Dont agree with this part, I blame ONeil for this. He farked our rugby heart no end when Marinos and kie fell for him when they agree on the stupid S15 format way back. We never should have agree for this and should have run when we had the chance.

fair is fair. Kiwis and saffers can have 5 teams. So can we.

The obvious answer was to amalgamate the Lions and Cheetahs. It isn't our fault you can't get it right