The Israel Folau saga

[Slim 293]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Where's the second wrong?

 

[Sully]

Listen guysI think it's time to back off a little on this thread.

Having said that I commend you for the way you've conducted yourselves.

 

[Adam84]

No.
Of course social media and bullying has an impact on young people.
Its just that this current issue doesn’t meet the definition of bullying in the above mentioned journal articles which you are trying to use as evidence to suit your arguement.
And you don’t seem to understand the difference.

No, your definition of bullying is “relentless and individually targeted humiliation in front of peers”, that is not the definition of bullying in journal articles and I told you to read up on some cyber bullying to open your eyes a bit more, because it’s far wider reaching beyond what you have described it as.

Firstly it doesn’t need to be relentless,
It doesn’t need to be targeted humiliation, and
It doesn’t need to be in front of peers.

 

[Quick Hands]

Vunipola roundly booed by Bristol's crowd everytime he touched the ball after supporting Folau on twitter

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47869324

That would be some of that bullying that people are (rightly) concerned about.

 

[PhilClinton]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet as I’m not going back through the last few pages but the Sydney papers got an interview with Izzy at his church today.

Summary is he’s standing by his words and says if that means the end of his career then so be it. When asked whether he regretted it or would have said it differently he essentially doubled down on his beliefs.

Regardless of any review/legal contract outcomes now I would think his firm stance and views have firmly sealed his fate and he won’t be winning back many fans.

 

[Slim 293]

As to how the process will playing out in the coming days/weeks..........

It is understood RA will issue Folau a breach notice as early as Monday. He will have 48 hours to respond and request a code of conduct hearing, which is a requirement as part of the game's collective bargaining agreement with players.

If Folau responds as soon as he is issued the breach notice, the wheels will be in motion as quickly as possible to organise a hearing.

However, with Easter coming up this weekend there could be some logistical hurdles to overcome for a code of conduct hearing to happen this week given a three-person panel needs to be locked in.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/rug...of-legal-stoush-disaster-20190414-p51e1x.html

 

[Dan54]

I did for a short period of time but stopped because I was not interested in his posts.

OK liquor, and does he post a lot of religious stuff?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

if RA was clear Israel was not going to reign in his social media posts as was agreed pretty clear would never have resigned him to 4 year contract.

I am hopeful RA’s position is strong as I don’t care how good a footballer Folau is but just want him gone from our game as his public views he wants to publish on social media have no place in our game. If I went to work and publicly expressed same views Folau expressed I would be out the door pronto.

Not going to give this anymore airtime as Israel just going for a big money grab and just a distraction.

 

[gel]

As to how the process will playing out in the coming days/weeks....



https://www.theage.com.au/sport/rug...of-legal-stoush-disaster-20190414-p51e1x.html

So Cameron and Raelene have finally found the HR directory on the office Dell and lifted that from the file titled "FFS_Read_Me_First_B4_Telling_Media_Ur_Firing_Some1.PDF"

Cool. Glad to see they're on to it.

 

[fatprop]

Would he be content if he walked away from rugby?

"Absolutely," Folau said "First and foremost, I live for God now. Whatever He wants me to do, I believe His plans for me are better than whatever I can think. If that's not to continue on playing, so be it.

"In saying that, obviously I love playing footy and if it goes down that path I'll definitely miss it. But my faith in Jesus Christ is what comes first."

Folau said the outrage about him calling homosexuals sinners had not caused him to reconsider his comments.

"Absolutely not," he said. "I'll stand on what the Bible says. I share it with love. I can see the other side of the coin where people's reactions are the total opposite to how I'm sharing it.

"But in Ezekiel, chapter 33, verse 11, it says that 'God has no pleasure in the person that's living in sin' ... He's a loving God and he wants people to turn away from what they're living in and he'll give them life.

"That's the message that I'm trying to share, even though it comes across as harsh. I can't change what the word of God says."
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-to-do-unrepentant-folau-20190414-p51dyw.html

I said before on this thread that this issue is a little bit bigger than just Folau for rugby, he is clearly an outlier, but there is a very strong, very religious conservative islander community that rugby would love to see continue to embrace rugby.

There is an interesting balance that has to be found here

England’s star backrower Billy Vunipola could face sanctions after he appeared to back an Instagram post published by Israel Folau in which the Wallabies fullback made homophobic remarks.

In an apparent show of support to his fellow Christian, Vunipola has declared in his own Instagram post that “Man was made for woman to pro create that was the goal no?”https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby...e/news-story/870d23897be7f1bdfc224574b3fe52b2

How many great players with religious beliefs will rugby need to ostracise/sanction?

 

[Quick Hands]

if RA was clear Israel was not going to reign in his social media posts as was agreed pretty clear would never have resigned him to 4 year contract.

I wouldn't be so sure of RA's processes if I were you. Regardless of any oral agreements, if RA didn't specifically put clauses about social media activity in the signed contract then things aren't as clear cut as you and others think.

Not going to give this anymore airtime as Israel just going for a big money grab and just a distraction.

You realise that he gives half his money away?

I would assume that in this instance as there is a legally binding contract that he'll receive no more and no less than which he is entitled to at law. I can't see how you can describe that as a money grab.

 

[Quick Hands]

I said before on this thread that this issue is a little bit bigger than just Folau for rugby, he is clearly an outlier, but there is a very strong, very religious conservative islander community that rugby would love to see continue to embrace rugby.

There is an interesting balance that has to be found here


How many great players with religious beliefs will rugby need to ostracise/sanction?

Yes indeed FP.

I'm not even that sure that he's that much an outlier in terms of his beliefs, but clearly he is in terms of how he speaks about it.

 

[PhilClinton]

Quick Hands - I believe the inference of a money grab is the rumors that he already lined up some juicy overseas contracts along with any payout he would receive from RA

 

[Kenny Powers]

Never thought I would see a footballers transgression result in newspaper reporters following him to a church and not a court house.

Sitting in on a sermon must be a change from listening to a brief of evidence.

 

[Ignoto]

I'm not even that sure that he's that much an outlier in terms of his beliefs, but clearly he is in terms of how he speaks about it.

Agreed with that. Reading Billy's take on the situation

what he’s saying isn’t that he doesn’t like or love those people.
“He’s saying how we live our lives needs to be closer to how God intended them to be.

If Izzy said something along those lines then I doubt there would be this level of outrage.

 

[wamberal]

Brian Houston is not somebody whose views I would normally feel comfortable with. But he has written an opinion piece that is published in today's SMH that is worth reading.

 

[RugbyReg]

The Rugby Ruckus podcast (Ben Kimber and Morgan Turinui) have released two very interesting podcasts on this matter, both only about 30 mins long.

The first is with Dave Oliver, a former Easts club rugby player, a coach, and member of Eddie Jones' wallaby analyst team, and openly gay.

The second is with Max Kimber (Ben's brother) who is a workplace law specialist.

https://www.therugbyruckus.com/

 

[Braveheart81]

The first is with Dave Oliver, a former Easts club rugby player, a coach, and member of Eddie Jones' wallaby analyst team, and openly gay.

I'm not sure if he still reads the forum but he certainly used to. Great stuff Dave!

 

[Quick Hands]

Quick Hands - I believe the inference of a money grab is the rumors that he already lined up some juicy overseas contracts along with any payout he would receive from RA

More than $1 million a year?

When he's already said he doesn't want to leave Australia? And his wife is a professional netballer here?

Assuming he get's his full contract paid out by RA. The normal thing would be that the money would be paid in the usual installments and any other rugby earnings would be deducted from any RA payouts.

 

[barbarian]

For all his faults, he truly believes what he is saying and is willing to accept the consequences. It's unsurprising that people like Cameron Clyne and Roger Davis don't understand this.

By all means defend his actions, but let's not make him into some sort of hero.
.