The Israel Folau saga

[KOB1987]

Will the Players' Choice letter, and Castle's recollections, and the support letter, all be tabled during the court case?
And open to challenge?

Who knows. I guess either party can present anything that will support their case. But if they do then it can potentially be used against them as well.

 

[The Honey Badger]

The employee decides not to pursue the matter, which is a bit of anti-climax

Right you are

 

[Kenny Powers]

Interesting article on corporate virtue signaling, overseas based article that makes reference to Australia. Makes you think regardless of the outcome of Fairwork, there are votes to be harvested from the centre of politics in backing Folau's law or something similar.

https://quillette.com/2018/11/13/how-to-stop-the-corporate-virtue-signaling-before-its-too-late/

 

[James Pettifer]

Interesting article on corporate virtue signaling, overseas based article that makes reference to Australia. Makes you think regardless of the outcome of Fairwork, there are votes to be harvested from the centre of politics in backing Folau's law or something similar.

https://quillette.com/2018/11/13/how-to-stop-the-corporate-virtue-signaling-before-its-too-late/

Does that also include Angela Williamson fired by Cricket Australia for her tweets around abortion? There was little support for her from the right wing cheerleaders (although note that Andrew Bolt said that this was a massive over reaction)
Even less support for Scott McIntyre fired by SBS for his tweets on ANZAC day. Andrew Bolt said he had to be sacked for his comments

Typically, on both sides of politics, people are very much in support of free speech if the speech is consistent with their views.

 

[James Pettifer]

That's clutching at straws. The point is that the media have got hold of it because Folau put it up on his Players Voice letter. It's being played out as though it was some iron clad agreement between him and RA. As QH says even RA haven't run with it. It has zero substance legally.

Actually it does. It keeps on being reported that Folau doesn't know what he did wrong and he didn't understand around what they expected from him with regards to social media. The letter is pretty bloody clear that he did understand and confirmed that he made a verbal commitment to play nice.

It also clearly shows that he has little integrity - which is one of the cards he keeps on playing.

The letter last week was clearly a PR stunt as I think he has suddenly realised that
1) court cases take a long time to get going
2) the media and people are going to get bored and forget about him
3) he can't go and get another contract until the court case as this would massively impact his claim for financial damages so his sporting career is over

The Michaela Banerji case (sacked for anonymous tweets which were tied back to her) occurred in 2013 and is now in the high court in 2019.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Does that also include Angela Williamson fired by Cricket Australia for her tweets around abortion? There was little support for her from the right wing cheerleaders (although note that Andrew Bolt said that this was a massive over reaction)
Even less support for Scott McIntyre fired by SBS for his tweets on ANZAC day. Andrew Bolt said he had to be sacked for his comments

Interesting that Scott McIntyre took his case to Fairwork but settled so there was no ruling handed down to go by, and Angela Williamson is still working its way thru the court system. So this is new territory provided they don't settle on the court house steps.

Another interesting article, this time about 'Codes of Conduct', and how unrealistic and open ended they are, usually written by some halfwit in Human Resources who has never had responsibility for making a profit and paying the bills.

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2019/05/is-it-legal-to-fire-someone-for-egging-politicians/

 

[James Pettifer]

Interesting that Scott McIntyre took his case to Fairwork but settled so there was no ruling handed down to go by, and Angela Williamson is still working its way thru the court system. So this is new territory provided they don't settle on the court house steps.

Another interesting article, this time about 'Codes of Conduct', and how unrealistic and open ended they are, usually written by some halfwit in Human Resources who has never had responsibility for making a profit and paying the bills.

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2019/05/is-it-legal-to-fire-someone-for-egging-politicians/

Oh there are a lot more people who have been sacked for social media posts. These ones are just the more prominent or interesting ones. Here is another five with various outcomes - https://www.smartcompany.com.au/peo...al-media-five-unfair-dismissal-cases-lessons/

 

[ACT Crusader]

Interesting that Scott McIntyre took his case to Fairwork but settled so there was no ruling handed down to go by, and Angela Williamson is still working its way thru the court system. So this is new territory provided they don't settle on the court house steps.

Another interesting article, this time about 'Codes of Conduct', and how unrealistic and open ended they are, usually written by some halfwit in Human Resources who has never had responsibility for making a profit and paying the bills.

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2019/05/is-it-legal-to-fire-someone-for-egging-politicians/

The Williamson matter was settled out of court late last year

 

[Kiwikrs]

They need to own a part of this saga, though maybe not all of it.

After Folau's first blunder, they needed an ironclad plan as to how they would react if it happened again. They had a golden opportunity to actually safeguard themselves against this given he was at that time negotiating his next deal.

But they didn't do this adequately, which has partly resulted in the mess we have seen.

So while Israel has to own his actions, RA should have created a black-and-white world for him (in a legal sense) if he transgressed again. Unfortunately it's been very grey.
.

While I agree in part I don't think they had any options available to them other than what they did.

They can't change the contract, he won't sign a disclaimer, they issued verbal and written warnings. What else can an organization do other than not sign him and can you imagine the uproar then...

 

[Kiwikrs]

It's been reiterated many, many times that his offer to walk away if his beliefs were a problem came in the negotiations before his latest contract.

Do you have a source for this sunset clause on his word or is it just speculation as to how long someone's word is good for?

 

[wamberal]

While I agree in part I don't think they had any options available to them other than what they did.

They can't change the contract, he won't sign a disclaimer, they issued verbal and written warnings. What else can an organization do other than not sign him and can you imagine the uproar then.

The CEO presumably took Izzy at his word. My guess is that many of us would, in a similar situation. A valued employee, high performer, huge public recognition, promises not to do it again.


Then he does it again. I would have backed him, I reckon, not to do it again. That is what Castle did. We were both wrong.

 

[James Pettifer]

Do you have a source for this sunset clause on his word or is it just speculation as to how long someone's word is good for?

It is really easy. His word is as good for as long as he doesn’t break it.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The CEO presumably took Izzy at his word. My guess is that many of us would, in a similar situation. A valued employee, high performer, huge public recognition, promises not to do it again.


Then he does it again. I would have backed him, I reckon, not to do it again. That is what Castle did. We were both wrong.

From my perspective that doesn’t make sense when you are talking about something that could cost him his job and for the ARU put at risk an asset.
Yes Folau is a young man, but this is professional sports, big business and influential 3rd party sponsors. And I know that the whole ARU incompetence has been done to death on here, but if something that has the potential to have major implications for both sides is taken o n “his word”, then that is even more astonishing.

 

[Kiwikrs]

From my perspective that doesn’t make sense when you are talking about something that could cost him his job and for the ARU put at risk an asset.
Yes Folau is a young man, but this is professional sports, big business and influential 3rd party sponsors. And I know that the whole ARU incompetence has been done to death on here, but if something that has the potential to have major implications for both sides is taken o n “his word”, then that is even more astonishing.

So, what would you have done?

 

[wamberal]

From my perspective that doesn’t make sense when you are talking about something that could cost him his job and for the ARU put at risk an asset.
.

Look, mate, I am simply saying that I would have made the same mistake, in all probability. I have managed some very high performers in my time, not in this field, admittedly, but sometimes it is necessary to back one's own judgement, particularly when it comes to questions of personal integrity. Castle made a misjudgment, but the blame does not lie with her. It lies with the person that she trusted to keep his word.


My word is my bond. That is a pretty good motto, I reckon.

 

[Rebelsfan]

My word is my bond. That is a pretty good motto, I reckon.

You seem to be harping on about this so it reminded me of the time the ARU CEO LIED about its involvement of the Rebels/Western Force saga. You can read about it here if you wish: https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/r...rn-force-decision-into-question-ng-b88671547z
In a nut shell, Mr Pulver claimed he knew nothing about the sale of the Rebels back to the VRU. “I was not involved in any way with the transfer of licence back to VRU. I was taken by surprise when it happened." he said.
In secret emails obtained by Perthnow, it showed that the ARU suggested Imperium exercise a put option and were involved in negotiations which cleared Melbourne Rebels debt thereby allowing the put option to the Victorian Rugby Union to be exercised. Bye Bye Western Force.


Now back to his word and his bond.
Oh and by the way did you read The Mocker in yesterday's Australian? How does Je suis un hypocrite sound?

 

[Tex]

You seem to be harping on about this so it reminded me of the time the ARU CEO LIED about its involvement of the Rebels/Western Force saga. You can read about it here if you wish: https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/r...rn-force-decision-into-question-ng-b88671547z
In a nut shell, Mr Pulver claimed he knew nothing about the sale of the Rebels back to the VRU. “I was not involved in any way with the transfer of licence back to VRU. I was taken by surprise when it happened." he said.
In secret emails obtained by Perthnow, it showed that the ARU suggested Imperium exercise a put option and were involved in negotiations which cleared Melbourne Rebels debt thereby allowing the put option to the Victorian Rugby Union to be exercised. Bye Bye Western Force.


Now back to his word and his bond.
Oh and by the way did you read The Mocker in yesterday's Australian? How does Je suis un hypocrite sound?

To use Pulver as the noose around Castle's neck is a stretch mate.

 

[sunnyboys]

I’d rather not have far right wing opinion sites like Quilette in amongst my rugby chat if it can be helped.

 

[Pfitzy]

I’d rather not have far right wing opinion sites like Quilette in amongst my rugby chat if it can be helped.

I was just about to post "Anything from the Land of Nazi Dumpster Fire Incelnet Is Invalid" but you beat be to it. Well played.

I mean, look at my profile pic FFS.

 

[Pfitzy]

Also: RA were never going to get a clause in there about social media, because:

1. Folau's management
2. RUPA
3. Why the fuck would you even need to say it?