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The impending Hooper vs Pocock Dilemma

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Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Paradox said:
No, that'd be Moore.

The capability of Pocock winning turnovers is unmatched in Oz. He can turn opposition front foot ball into Oz attack - Cooper et al will thrive off this sort of ball.

Which 7s have outplayed Pocock head to head? Certainly not Warburton who did over Hooper. McCaw and Cane outplayed Hooper as did the SA and Frog Openside. Pocock has matched and outplayed these players.

Anyway, Pocock has to get through next year injury free and perform.
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100% agree with this - this is what sets him apart from Hooper.

Its funny we haven't even starting comparing them to Gill yet - who probably had a better Super XV to Hooper.

Then theirs Colby Fainga who was picked ahead of Hooper at the Brumbies before getting injured and then being stuck behind Pocock & G.Smith. Hopefully this is his break through year and we can add him to the mix!

My god we have some good seven's!
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Seb V said:
I think 2 years ago he was more effective then Hooper is presently. I think he will be a better player then Hooper when he returns. But we will only have to wait and see.
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That is where I disagree. When he last played for Australia prior to injury in 2012 there were many discussions speculating that he was no longer as effective as he previously had been due to a few Bledisloe and TRC encounters with minimal/no pilfers and getting penalised. Which, for the record, I believe was due to greater scrutiny from referees on defending teams at the breakdown (Much like 2 out of 3 tests in the Lions tour when Hooper was hammered by all in sundry for not effective enough turnovers). My belief is put Pocock in this same team with less dominant tacklers in the pack and he will have difficulties similar to 2012.

Also, in regards to Hooper, if he is in less rucks, yet turning over just as much ball, would that not be more effective?

But Pocock is better than Hooper over the ball. What needs to be decided is if you can get the benefit out of it. Which comes down to the strategy you need to play. If you are going to play field position against SA, Pocock would be a better option. If you want to run them off their feet, Hooper as an extra wider runner will be.

Judging by McKenzie's game plans and what he says in the press I personally think he will find Hooper suits it a little more.

Pocock can work on his running game, but he will never be as good as Hooper with ball in hand. Much like Hooper can work and focus on the breakdown further, but he will never be the specialist of Pocock's calibre. Though I think we all pretty much agree with this, I think where we all disagree is on the role of an openside flanker.
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Train Without a Station said:
Also, in regards to Hooper, if he is in less rucks, yet turning over just as much ball, would that not be more effective?
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If you are slowing the ball down without winning the ball - you are still being effective. And I don't think he turns over the same amount of ball if you are judging games with SA and NZ.

Nice post though.

I definitely think the seven has more value when they are strong players over the ball. Even if they don't win the ball - if they are strong enough to slow the ball down for only a second - that makes a big difference, it gives our defence longer to realign. I find that a very valuable trait.

And I think having that strong player over the ball is something currently missing the wallabies.

I think your right though, Hooper could be the better option for certain strategies.
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
We definitely aren't lacking any depth in the 7 region, we should probably be more concerned with the props and number 8.
 
Bullrush

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
Dave Beat said:
Yes I remember him at 7, it was quite a large woodies pack back then
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I've said for a while that you could look at having Pocock at 6. Hooper at 7....that would be a pretty mean combo and would take the need off Hooper to be as involved at the breakdown.
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Bullrush said:
I've said for a while that you could look at having Pocock at 6. Hooper at 7..that would be a pretty mean combo and would take the need off Hooper to be as involved at the breakdown.
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Not a fan of playing both at the same time - well at least not to start off the game that way. You will lose either Mowen, Fardy, or Higgers at 6. Which means one less genuine option at the line-out.

I think the perfect thing to do is have Hooper on the bench with Pocock to start. Bring on Hooper in the last 20minutes - depending on how the game is going, either straight swap with Pocock or replace the number 6 and have them both run riot in the last 20mins.
 
Bullrush

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
Seb V said:
Not a fan of playing both at the same time - well at least not to start off the game that way. You will lose either Mowen, Fardy, or Higgers at 6. Which means one less genuine option at the line-out.

I think the perfect thing to do is have Hooper on the bench with Pocock to start. Bring on Hooper in the last 20minutes - depending on how the game is going, either straight swap with Pocock or replace the number 6 and have them both run riot in the last 20mins.
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In a full strength squad, it's hard to see Mowen starting. Play Higgers at 8 and Fardy at lock.

Or, Fardy to 6, Pocock to 8 (I know, I know...lol) and Higgers on the bench (I'm still not sold on Higgers AT ALL but I didn't watch a lot of Rebels games this year and I heard he improved in the tight stuff)

It just looks like Pocock has the frame to play a really rock solid 6 to me. Kaino-like, hard hitting, tough and a bit of mongrel.

As I've said previously though, Pocock is No.1 IMO and then Hooper.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Bullrush said:
As I've said previously though, Pocock is No.1 IMO and then Hooper.
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That's a bit like saying that Jerome Kaino is a walk up starter for the All Blacks 6 jersey next season.

Pocock is definitely ahead of Hooper at his best, but he's been gone for a fair while and we haven't seen his best for two years.

Pocock has to prove he's the best again next season.
 
Hugh Jarse

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
With Gill, Hooper, Bam Bam, Higgers, Fardy and Palu all looking for a Gold Jumper next season, you have to wonder where Mowen is going to fit in.
He's been OK as a stopgap, and is probably the best referee manager around at the moment, but on form I can see him struggle to be in the 23 next year.

The Wobs Captaincy reminds me of the Monty Python Skit "The Mens Being Eaten by a Crocodile Contest" - ".. nothing's predictable in this tough, harsh, highly competitive world where today's champion is tomorrow's crocodile shit."

http://www.montypython.net/scripts/croc.php
 
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Train Without a Station

Guest
Hugh Jarse said:
With Gill, Hooper, Bam Bam, Higgers, Fardy and Palu all looking for a Gold Jumper next season, you have to wonder where Mowen is going to fit in.
He's been OK as a stopgap, and is probably the best referee manager around at the moment, but on form I can see him struggle to be in the 23 next year.

The Wobs Captaincy reminds me of the Monty Python Skit "The Mens Being Eaten by a Crocodile Contest" - ".. nothing's predictable in this tough, harsh, highly competitive world where today's champion is tomorrow's crocodile shit."

http://www.montypython.net/scripts/croc.php
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You have to also consider that MMM may become an option. In addition Luke Jones, Angus Cottrell and Eddie Quirk may stake claims in 2014 after good seasons in 2013.

Right now, providing an option who is capable at 8 comes along (E.g. Palu or Higgers), Mowen would be first to go. I think Fardy has really got a stronger grip on a jersey.
 
B

brumsfan

Sydney Middleton (9)
If Gill can win 2014 super rugby player of the year, reds player of the year, then start for the wallabies and win multiple motm awards, have a run away win of the player of the RC and then have a dominant win at the JE medal and also win the fans choice wallaby of the year awards then I suppose he will have matched Hoopers year and probably deserves the hype, but until then his is not in the conversation and should focus on staying off the grog.
 
Hugh Jarse

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
@Stationless Train, spot on. There are quite a few fringe 6/8's champing at the bit to get a chance at Gold. Palu won't be around for ever but there is a real scrum of capable 6's and 8's that will probably offer better value in the long term than Mowen does.

Captaincy though. Bam Bam was really only adequate last year, and he is going to need to play himself back into form. Big Kev is out of form, and is not all that good at having Sir do as we need him to do. Sanchez plays badly with the C after his name. Squeaky doesn't need any extra baggage, and I'm not convinced that he could carry it off. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) plays too far away from the action, and I've never really been a fan wearing a jumper > 12 as a Captain. QC (Quade Cooper) could do it sometime in the future if he continues his recent form, but I'd like to see more Swallows before summer is declared.
 
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