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The impending Hooper vs Pocock Dilemma

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Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
When is the last time a Wallaby number 8 played a better test at number 8 than Pocock did in the Rugby Championship or RWC?

What exactly changed in Pocock's game in terms of doing the things he does and should do as a 7 compared to when he played at 8? I couldn't really see anything.

The only change for mine was that he ran crash ball in the midfield when we had a lineout throw.

Both Pocock and Hooper have routinely been amongst the best players in the team when only one was playing. The fact that continued when both were playing was surely testament to the fact it worked.

If Pocock is also our best 8 and it allows us to pick a 7 who is also a hugely influential player on a consistent basis, I don't see why you would do something different.

We tend to underrate Hooper when comparing him to Pocock. He's more than just influential. He's often our best player, as a string of MOM awards attest. And that's at 7. Even with Pocock in existence, he's a fringe World XV contender, especially now that Macaw has actually disappeared. The idea of dropping him for Ben MacCalman to get a better backrow balance seems rather outlandish. Ben, while a competent player, has his own version of Macaw's invisibiity cloak.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Or are Pocock and Hooper like having the restaurant's most expensive dish stuffed with their second most expensive dish? Lobster stuffed with tacos coming up!
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Surely the back row (injury permitting) will be Fardy, Hooper and Pocock. Even skeptical old me saw how well it worked and it did so because of the complementary skill sets of Hooper and Pocock. It wasn't two opensides, it was something quite different and it was very successful.

Next year will see a change and maybe we'll see a glimpse of another combination in 2016 and I'd be OK with that, other than in the really big games (like England or TRC).
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
I'm sure that was more than just a touch of fear in Ellison's and Magnay's eyes when they saw Ita running at them.

But really, not one lineout take! Surely he can't be ready for higher honours.;)
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Huh? That was the entire point of my post.

I never said he couldn't be selected. I just said his selection isn't just based on being preferred at number 8 to other options for number 8.

Of course there are plenty of permutations in the forward pack where Vaea is fine to select at 8.


Sorry mate, that shouldn't have been a direct reply to your post. Mainly a comment on the sentiment from many other posters who are cancelling Vaea out because he doesn't jump.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Personally I think Pocock is head and shoulders above Hooper at 7.

I don't think Hooper could ever really play 6 or 8.

McCalman is a very good 8.

I would go for Poey at 7 and McCalman at 8 and would find it difficult to have Hooper in the 23 (dare I say it)

They would be better balance for the team.


That is harsh on Hooper. Can I remind you how effective he was in the tackle. Remember the SA game last year of him driving back Burger on the goal line!!!!

Their is always room for Hooper.
 

A mutterer

Chilla Wilson (44)
we totally need a gif of hooper skateboarding down the boulevard with some deal with it sunglasses when this hooper is not a 7 argument is brought back out.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Do you think Hooper is a better 7 than McCalman is an 8?

That's essentially what the argument boils down to because it is pretty clear that Pocock is better at 7 or 8 (and probably other positions) than anyone else we have.


Frankly that question is unanswerable . Apples and oranges.

I think Pocock is a stand-out 7, and an acceptable 8 (particularly at test level) I think Hooper is a very good 7 (and nothing else) as I think McCalman an 8 (and probably no other position). I reckon Pocock desparately wants to play 7 at test level, again.

I suppose the real challenge facing Chek would be the selection of a real 8 (not Pocock) and then the selection of the best player at 7. I think without question he would pick Pocock
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Frankly that question is unanswerable . Apples and oranges.

I think Pocock is a stand-out 7, and an acceptable 8 (particularly at test level) I think Hooper is a very good 7 (and nothing else) as I think McCalman an 8 (and probably no other position). I reckon Pocock desparately wants to play 7 at test level, again.

I suppose the real challenge facing Chek would be the selection of a real 8 (not Pocock) and then the selection of the best player at 7. I think without question he would pick Pocock


Why is it an unanswerable question? The question was essentially asked last year and Cheika answered it by picking Hooper at 7 and moving Pocock to 8 and the Wallabies produced their best football and results in years (with Pocock and Hooper consistently amongst their best players).

What about Pocock doesn't make him a "real 8"? His ball running ability has improved out of sight and he regularly makes hard metres in tight and works as a linking player. His defence is outstanding and he makes a lot of tackles and there is no one better than him at the breakdown. He had zero issues controlling the ball at the back of the scrum and linking with the halfback when required.

When Pocock was our best player at the RWC last year playing number 8 in a tournament where the team exceeded expectations in, it's pretty nonsensical to argue that he is just an "acceptable 8".

Why do you think Pocock wants to play 7 at test level again? Aside from packing down at a different position in the scrum what exactly changed about the way he played? If anything, having Hooper also on the field who makes a lot of tackles and particularly dominant tackles behind the advantage line, gave Pocock more opportunities than he previously had to win turnover ball at the breakdown. Arguably having Hooper also on the field allowed Pocock to do what he does best even better.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Why is it an unanswerable question? The question was essentially asked last year and Cheika answered it by picking Hooper at 7 and moving Pocock to 8 and the Wallabies produced their best football and results in years (with Pocock and Hooper consistently amongst their best players).

What about Pocock doesn't make him a "real 8"? His ball running ability has improved out of sight and he regularly makes hard metres in tight and works as a linking player. His defence is outstanding and he makes a lot of tackles and there is no one better than him at the breakdown. He had zero issues controlling the ball at the back of the scrum and linking with the halfback when required.

When Pocock was our best player at the RWC last year playing number 8 in a tournament where the team exceeded expectations in, it's pretty nonsensical to argue that he is just an "acceptable 8".

Why do you think Pocock wants to play 7 at test level again? Aside from packing down at a different position in the scrum what exactly changed about the way he played? If anything, having Hooper also on the field who makes a lot of tackles and particularly dominant tackles behind the advantage line, gave Pocock more opportunities than he previously had to win turnover ball at the breakdown. Arguably having Hooper also on the field allowed Pocock to do what he does best even better.


How do you quantify a players "worth".

The team may have exceeded your expectations but not mine. The boys went well. Chek made the decision he did and frankly I agree totally with his selection of both at that time.
Why do I think Poey wants to play 7. Clearly he is the best in the world at that position. He is NOT the best Number 8 running around, although you will probably disagree.

Players love locking down a spot in the team
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
How do you quantify a players "worth".


You can't really quantify it, particularly when you are measuring a player in one position against a player in another position. It doesn't mean you're not making that decision each time you select the team.

I think Pocock clearly has locked down a spot in the team. There is literally zero chance he won't be selected if healthy. He's the best player we have. He doesn't need to only play one position to have locked down a spot in the team.
 
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