The beginning of the end - AFL has stormed the ramparts

[Quick Hands]

snide comments aside - it is actually the ARU that has failed here - they are the general custodians of the game and have allowed the disconnect to start at the top and fracture its way down through the body. If your kid plays rugby in NSW you have AT LEAST 2 disconnected data bases to contend with - Buddha & MRA - they do not "talk" to each other.

The schools then sit outside all of this all together, not being required (as I understand it) to register their players! Because that's the way the schools have always done it.

IF the funding comes from the top so to should the participation rules. And the knife to the throat would be participation in representative rugby for the schools.

GOLDEN RULE #1 He who kicks in the gold, makes the rules!

I don't want to get down to semantics, but NSWRU have been the custodians of the game in this state since 1874. They may have very gradually ceded some power and functions to the ARU, but they have retained a controlling bloc of votes. Essentially if the NSWRU had really wanted the ARU to do something then it would have happened. Even now, the ARU cannot reform its structure if the NSWRU delegates vote against it.

For most of its existance the ARU has really only been a co-ordinating body, with state unions in control of their own states. In the professional era, it has assumed more responsibility, primarily as you say by controlling my much of the money through TV rights. Even under the structure recommended by Arbib, the State Unions would still be responsible for their own area.

As the whole structure is dysfunctional, you find things such as computer systems not talking to each other and a decision-making process in which people jealously guard their independence. Sometimes in the genuine belief that they are doing it the best way and they don't want others to tell them what to do and in other cases for less noble purposes.

The ARU should run the game and be able to implement policies which are coherent and in the best interests of the game. The quicker that happens the better.

 

[papabear]

If only the english RU let players get paid back in the day everything would be sweet.

 

[Man on the hill]

I don't want to get down to semantics, but NSWRU have been the custodians of the game in this state since 1874. They may have very gradually ceded some power and functions to the ARU, but they have retained a controlling bloc of votes. Essentially if the NSWRU had really wanted the ARU to do something then it would have happened. Even now, the ARU cannot reform its structure if the NSWRU delegates vote against it.

For most of its existance the ARU has really only been a co-ordinating body, with state unions in control of their own states. In the professional era, it has assumed more responsibility, primarily as you say by controlling my much of the money through TV rights. Even under the structure recommended by Arbib, the State Unions would still be responsible for their own area.

As the whole structure is dysfunctional, you find things such as computer systems not talking to each other and a decision-making process in which people jealously guard their independence. Sometimes in the genuine belief that they are doing it the best way and they don't want others to tell them what to do and in other cases for less noble purposes.

The ARU should run the game and be able to implement policies which are coherent and in the best interests of the game. The quicker that happens the better.

what a strange response - "I don't want get down to semantics, but..."

The year is now 2012. The purse strings are firmly held by the ARU and have been for a while. They have been allowed by their stakeholders (i.e. the states) to have an almost total disinterest in what happens at the grass roots of the game.

The system has failed for many reasons (vested interest will be one, but there will be others), the system must be changed.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm just trying to be factually correct. There is a constitution in place which sets out who does what. It may well be hopelessly out of date and dysfunctional and not serving the interests of the game but it is there.

As an analogy, State and Federal governments have certain responsibilities set out in the constitution. The Federal government can't for example send the Federal Police into Kings Cross if it thinks the NSW government aren't doing a good job at law and order. They can use finance to try to persuade, but have no authority.

The current system is it need of change and we shall see if there is a will to change it by those who currently exercise control. One suspects that NSWRU will have to be dragged kicking and screaming at every step.

 

[Lindommer]

Guys, Nudgee College has had an AFL program for a couple of years. Some of the boys play it, but 'only to keep fit for rugby' by most accounts.

Went pass Marist College Pearce in Canberra a few weeks ago (Rob Egerton's alma mater), horrified to see Aussie Rules sticks on the big oval next to the road. Where do they play rugby?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Went pass Marist College Pearce in Canberra a few weeks ago (Rob Egerton's alma mater), horrified to see Aussie Rules sticks on the big oval next to the road. Where do they play rugby?

I hope you either cut them down or arranged to have them cut down?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^ If I remember my history, there was a Maori chief way back when who made a habit of chopping down British Flagpoles in the Shaky Isles. (confirmed by the font of all knowledge Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hone_Heke - See Flagstaff War )

With so many kiwis now resident here, there is a good chance one of his relatives may be available to perform a similar task with the 'Strules Posts at Marist college, and Henson Park, and Nudgee College, and .... everywhere else.

 

[scaraby]

I hope you either cut them down or arranged to have them cut down?

Don't panic they were just giving the cross bars a rest..thats why they stick them in the ground next to the uprights. Its a good system because the company gives you a spare one as well in case some John Eales like second row swings off them and breaks them.

 

[matty_k]

An interesting follow on in today's Fitz Files.
http://m.smh.com.au/sport/the-fitz-files/wallabies-arent-that-bad-are-they-20121116-29hss.html

WORLDS APART
TFF has said for a long time that AFL is the best run sport in Australia, and here is more proof. As you know, "Australia Network" is the chief form of the Australian government's engagement with South-East Asia and Pacific region, drawing program content from the ABC and all other free-to-air networks. This has meant that for years viewers have been able to see a wide array of games from all football codes, Friday to Monday. And yet, TFF's man in India, Colin Yarham, reports, because soccer, rugby union and rugby league negotiated new broadcasting arrangements with the outcome that a fee was demanded of Australia Network for their vision, it has left open slather for AFL. "The consequence," Colin reports, "is that young people from all over the Pacific [who had normally watched and played rugby, or to a lesser extent soccer] can now watch at least five games of AFL each weekend and enjoy the scintillating running game of the 'Cats' or the 'Swans' and the vigour of the 'Dockers' or Collingwood with impunity. Very soon AFL coaches and mentors have arrived and the game is said to be building up apace throughout. The AFL is even organising an early season match in India. AFL appears organised but it would seem that promotion means little to the other Boards - rather shortsighted but typical."

 

[Inside Shoulder]

An interesting follow on in today's Fitz Files.
http://m.smh.com.au/sport/the-fitz-files/wallabies-arent-that-bad-are-they-20121116-29hss.html

If anyone can watch 5 games of AFL in a lifetime then theyre a darn sight more tolerant of knock ons, playing the ball on the ground, dropping the ball v not dropping the ball and Bruce mcavaney than ill ever be.


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[Quick Hands]

You're probably right there.

I think, however, the point is once again the AFL administrators have shown that they are capable of thinking outside the square in the name of expanding and developing their game.

Yes they're cashed up, but they possess more inovative thinking than rugby administrators. They're one of the sports that we are in competition with for athletes, and even when they get it wrong (eg Folau), they still come out looking good because their organisation is well run.

Look at the way that the AFL handled the Folau departure, good grace and positive thinking on all sides. We wish you well, it was worth the exercise, etc. Could the ARU have done as well (think Lote)?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You're probably right there.

I think, however, the point is once again the AFL administrators have shown that they are capable of thinking outside the square in the name of expanding and developing their game.

Yes they're cashed up, but they possess more inovative thinking than rugby administrators. They're one of the sports that we are in competition with for athletes, and even when they get it wrong (eg Folau), they still come out looking good because their organisation is well run.

Look at the way that the AFL handled the Folau departure, good grace and positive thinking on all sides. We wish you well, it was worth the exercise, etc. Could the ARU have done as well (think Lote)?

I'm sorry but that thinking outside the square hasn't actually reaped any real fruit. The AFL has been giving it rights away to ESPN in the states for well over a decade. There are AFL comps in the States. But they are tiny and ex-pat heavy. Showing it on TV is one thing, actual bricks and mortar development work is what works best.

 

[Quick Hands]

Never said that it would lead to the world converting to AFL. They'd probably get almost nothing for the rights anyway. The point is their administrators are always looking at expansion and development in very inovative ways. They won't be successful at everything that they try, but because they're always thinking at things from different angles a percentage of them will work.

Where they have succeeded is in the NSW and Qld markets. The Swans and the Lions are entreched and now they're onto 2nd teams. AFL led the sports reports at least in Sydney towards then end of the year when Swans were going so well. NRL semis were on as 2nd item most nights.

In the item that started this thread they have offered to run a competition for years 5/6 and 7/8 at a time which fits in with existing school sport, supply officials and subsidise uniforms. They'll keep trying different strategies until they are successful. All great inventions have started by thinking outside of the square and not just being conventional.

 

[RugbyFuture]

late reply as Ive been active in other things and just recently rechecked all the forums.

Fr Middleton (at aloys - first article) is an adelaidean who never much liked many of the traditional co-curricula of the school, saw rugby and cadets as violent things and was very passive aggressive towards them in my opinion. He was held back by Fr Jones who was very engrained in the traditions of the school, but has since been promoted to Rector of Riverview, and hence replaced by someone who I am unsure of. But I would suggest that Fr Middleton is playing things up a bit. Though there were many at aloys who were interested or played AFL they were actually mostly from outside the rugby playing ranks. though this may have changed since I left.

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[Hugh Jarse]

I would imagine City boarding schools with large numbers of country boys from the Mexican Border region would be particularly susceptible to this assault from the Southern Bandits and their unholy oval ball game of knock ons and dribbly little punt kicks.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I would imagine City boarding schools with large numbers of country boys from the Mexican Border region would be particularly susceptible to this assault from the Southern Bandits and their unholy oval ball game of knock ons and dribbly little punt kicks.

Are there such things?
I thought those kids went to Mexico for their schooling and to meet the best people.
I can confirm that trinity will have afl teams next year paid for, kitted, and umpired by demitriou.


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[Man on the hill]

Are there such things?
I thought those kids went to Mexico for their schooling and to meet the best people.
I can confirm that trinity will have afl teams next year paid for, kitted, and umpired by demitriou.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nothing entirely new in that - I have it on the best authroity that Trinity have offered AFL as a short season for a number of years - no idea as to the contribution from AFL Central.

 

[stoff]

... oval ball game of knock ons and dribbly little punt kicks.

International rugby as played by the Wallabies every second week?

 

[Lindommer]

I would imagine city boarding schools with large numbers of country boys from the Mexican border region.....

In my experience the boarding schools in Sydney/Canberra/central west with any boys from southern NSW who had an Aussie Rules background sensibly put them at 15 and let them take all the kicks. That is apart from Shore who put Lewis Roberts-Thomson in the scrum at number 8, didn't even let him take the kicks. Dills. Most of them end up loving rugby as it's much more fun running into other boys at that age rather than standing around catching a cold. A scrappy game of AFL between two poorly-skilled teams really is crap to watch.

My young bloke's school put on an AFL kickabout for three weekends, after rugby and while athletics was on in July/August (when's athletics on now in the GPS system, it's wandered about like the lost tribes of Israel!). Being tall they made him ruckman, but he's a crap kick and decided barging over other boys was his forte. Those with an Aussie Rules background murdered the rugby boys; there was a scratch "GPS AFL rep" team picked to play a curtain-raiser at Homebush before a Swans match (I think they may've played CAS), from memory the team all had an Aussie Rules background. BUT, every one of my young bloke's schoolmates who played in that AFL farce ended up at either colts with their district rugby clubs or in subbies. Rugby's so much a better game for young blokes to play.

Any AFL supporters wish to take me on: I was born and brought up in southern NSW, played Aussie Rules as a little tacker. Watched more AFL (including one GF in Melbourne) than's good for me.

 

[Runner]

Perhaps the problem is that the only place this intrsion is being discussed is online forums. Does the ARU ask any of the other groups for their input?