Talk about elitist

[Inside Shoulder]

IS you can't have it both ways. Either it's a high performance camp that talented kids are missing out on due to cost, OR it's a marketing ploy dressed up as a skills session. Take your pick but you can't whinge on both counts.

I didnt write it (the marketing department did) - its structure and its aims are contradictory

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So let me get this straight: the ARU are elitist snobs because:

1. They have the temerity to hold a junior camp in Sydney
2. They are charging MONEY for both the goods AND services provided there

Well if you say so.

Also I love how this camp would apparently cost the ARU 'nothing'. Well let's have five every weekend then!

so let me get this straight: you think the ARU exists to make money?
They couldn't have 5: there aren't enough people interested in the game. But we should keep it that way we dont want the riff raff getting in.

 

[I like to watch]

So let me get this straight: the ARU are elitist snobs because:

1. They have the temerity to hold a junior camp in Sydney
2. They are charging MONEY for both the goods AND services provided there

Well if you say so.

Also I love how this camp would apparently cost the ARU 'nothing'. Well let's have five every weekend then!

No they are elitist snobs because they hold the camp in a GPS stronghold away from the masses.
They are charging $$ that are easily afforded by wealthier type of families.Snigger if you want, but there are many families where this amount is too much of a stretch.
They are not making the islanders and the battlers west of TG Milner part of this process.
It will cost the ARU nothing cause they will no doubt use the NGS staff who normally have sessions with star GPS Schoolkids who go to fucking Europe this time of year.

 

[barbarian]

Yes. That's exactly what I think.

Or am I an idiot for believing the ARU should charge money for a camp they are providing, money which can be used in thousands of ways, all of those improving the game in this country?

 

[barbarian]

No they are elitist snobs because they hold the camp in a GPS stronghold away from the masses.
They are charging $$ that are easily afforded by wealthier type of families.Snigger if you want, but there are many families where this amount is too much of a stretch.
They are not making the islanders and the battlers west of TG Milner part of this process.
It will cost the ARU nothing cause they will no doubt use the NGS staff who normally have sessions with star GPS Schoolkids who go to fucking Europe this time of year.

So they aren't allowed to hold camps in rugby strongholds?

As I said before, I hope this is not the ONLY camp they are running. But I don't understand the objections to them having this one where they are having it and charging what they are charging. Like it or not this is the heartland of rugby in Sydney, and you would be foolish to ignore it.

 

[I like to watch]

Yes. That's exactly what I think.

Or am I an idiot for believing the ARU should charge money for a camp they are providing, money which can be used in thousands of ways, all of those improving the game in this country?

How is the ARU different from the AFL, who seem to be tripping over themselves with time and money to enhance junior participation.
The ARU just keep allowing the pool to diminish, this is just another example.
If you ever played club rugby as a kid, go down to the oval one saturday and ask a few questions on how it works these days. You will be shocked. The distance between some clubs in certain age groups is unbelievable, and demonstrates that away from the lofty school fields in the North & east of private Schools the game should be on life support.....
But then who would the ARU charge to supply this support?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yes. That's exactly what I think.

Or am I an idiot for believing the ARU should charge money for a camp they are providing, money which can be used in thousands of ways, all of those improving the game in this country?

Where are they improving the game in this country?
In terms of the ARU budget anything raised by what is charged for this event is a drop in the ocean: their revenue for 2010 was $72,000,000.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How is the ARU different from the AFL, who seem to be tripping over themselves with time and money to enhance junior participation.
The ARU just keep allowing the pool to diminish, this is just another example.
If you ever played club rugby as a kid, go down to the oval one saturday and ask a few questions on how it works these days. You will be shocked. The distance between some clubs in certain age groups is unbelievable, and demonstrates that away from the lofty school fields in the North & east of private Schools the game should be on life support.....
But then who would the ARU charge to supply this support?

ILTW - its not too good in the east at club level I can assure you

 

[Inside Shoulder]

In 2010 more money was paid in annual and long service leave than was allocated to Australian Schools, Victoria or any one else other than QLD & NSW.
The employee benefits were $12,000,000 - 3 times the grant to NSW & QLD combined.
Its pretty obvious where the fat is.

 

[I like to watch]

So they aren't allowed to hold camps in rugby strongholds?

As I said before, I hope this is not the ONLY camp they are running. But I don't understand the objections to them having this one where they are having it and charging what they are charging. Like it or not this is the heartland of rugby in Sydney, and you would be foolish to ignore it.

Point 1 If they are running 1 camp then no, they are preaching to the converted.
Point 2 NO THEY SHOULD NOT BE CHARGING for these camps, it should be the cornerstone of their Junior development. They should be on everywhere including outside of the metro area, and the ARU should be publicising the shit out of it. Out of these camps elite kids should be offered additional coaching if the ARU want to go down this path this early.

 

[no9]

Don't see the reason to have a camp at all, paid for or not. The target audience is 11-14 years for gods sake, let them be free to enjoy running around playing touch or kicking a footy with a mate. Not being pushed into an expensive creche for kids with parents who have bought into the "if your'e not in some squad for the elite by 15 years of age then your career is over" line or who couldn't be bothered with actually parenting. What's next? DNA testing of embryo's to see if it's worth persevering to birth.

Nothing like shattering an 11 year olds dreams by telling him he's not an "elite athlete"and has missed the cut, or does the fee buy you membership of an exclusive club of 11 year olds who will then go on to think they are better than others because of their newly aquired "elite" status.

I agree that this is probably just a money making venture, albeit a poorly thought through one targeting a captive audience of those parents who are only too happy to buy in. Will this identify the next generation of wallabies? I doubt it. Will it grow the game? no. So pack it in a box and put it with the other stupid ideas file.

As to the ARU, anyone who thinks they care for anything other than the Wallabies and its brand is delusional.

 

[barbarian]

How is the ARU different from the AFL, who seem to be tripping over themselves with time and money to enhance junior participation.

The AFL have just received a TV rights deal of $1b, they have a national support base, they are very well administrated. Ah, that's 3 pretty big ones right there.

 

[barbarian]

Where are they improving the game in this country?
In terms of the ARU budget anything raised by what is charged for this event is a drop in the ocean: their revenue for 2010 was $72,000,000.

I don't know, I don't work for them. But I know they are doing something. There are community development officers all over the country, FFS a senior member of the forum is one.

And it's very misleading to cite ARU revenue, when the made an $8m LOSS overall in 2011. So they can by no means afford to be giving away junior camps, merchandise etc. for free.

 

[barbarian]

Point 1 If they are running 1 camp then no, they are preaching to the converted.
Point 2 NO THEY SHOULD NOT BE CHARGING for these camps, it should be the cornerstone of their Junior development. They should be on everywhere including outside of the metro area, and the ARU should be publicising the shit out of it. Out of these camps elite kids should be offered additional coaching if the ARU want to go down this path this early.

Where does it say anywhere they are running one camp? Baseless assumption.

And as I said before, I would LOVE for them to offer free camps to everyone and publicising the shit out of it. But the sad fact is they don't have the money to do it.
.

 

[no9]

The AFL have just received a TV rights deal of $1b, they have a national support base, they are very well administrated. Ah, that's 3 pretty big ones right there.

Thats right, they are the complete opposite of the ARU.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't know, I don't work for them. But I know they are doing something. There are community development officers all over the country, FFS a senior member of the forum is one.

And it's very misleading to cite ARU revenue, when the made an $8m LOSS overall in 2011. So they can by no means afford to be giving away junior camps, merchandise etc. for free.

I don't know who that is but I do know that they have 1 for the whole of Sydney and his budget is a fraction of that for the afl.

They haven't published their accounts (online) for 2011, I'm not saying you're wrong but that's not a position that I can examine. In 2010 they had a surplus of about $3m....mind you they had foreign exchange hedging expenses of about $8m. That sounds unnecessarily exotic but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

JON is paid more than any of the unions bar NSW & qld, twice as much as Victoria where I thought we were trying to establish a beach head: I'll bet your mate the community development officer is on a pittance. All of the assumed 2011 loss is accounted for by the salaries and wages spend assuming it stayed the same as it had been in 2010.

All of this merely supports the contention that the ARU is an old boys club of white Anglo Saxon males (of which I am one) who almost to a man went to exclusive private schools(as did I) and either have no interest in getting the great unwashed involved (I.e. playing it or having their kids or grand kids playing it) in the game they play in heaven or no idea how to achieve it.

For long term viability and medium term success the administration needs decapitation and rebuilding from the ground up: not camps for spoilt brats.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[I like to watch]

Where does it say anywhere they are running one camp? Baseless assumption.

And as I said before, I would LOVE for them to offer free camps to everyone and publicising the shit out of it. But the sad fact is they don't have the money to do it.
.

You are being obtuse.
The flyer quoted in the OP of this thread only mentions this camp.If there are more why would they not be listed on the website as well?
Talking about baseless assumptions, now that you have ascertained the ARU cannot afford to run these camps, what do they cost to run?

 

[suckerforred]

So they aren't allowed to hold camps in rugby strongholds?

As I said before, I hope this is not the ONLY camp they are running. But I don't understand the objections to them having this one where they are having it and charging what they are charging. Like it or not this is the heartland of rugby in Sydney, and you would be foolish to ignore it.

Until such time as others are advertised, this is then only assumption that we can make. Bitch that really, but if the reality is different then the ARU needs to get their finger out and do something about changing the perception.

The objections is not to having the camp per se. The objections are to the implied targeting of the 'rugby strongholds' when they should being doing their utmost to grow the game, not just maintain the base support that they are always going to have.

Barbar - have we touched a nerve? If so why?

 

[suckerforred]

I'm sorry SFR but you are making a raft of generalisations and stereotypical judgements based on the unresearched unqualified statement that this camp is the only one of its type.

And even if it was why is it of such great importance? FFS these kids are 11-14, most of them haven't even hit puberty yet!

And why would Sydney parents/kids care if someone from Queensland attended the camp? Again this is total rubbish based on nothing. Like most of this thread.
.

My 'raft of generalisations and sterotypical judgements' come from responses such as yours to discussions like this. 'We don't care if you want to be involved, but are not going to help and will make it as difficult as possible' is a fairly standard reply if you are trying to work with rugby outside of Sydney and to a less extent Brisbane, certainly outside the 'elite' private schools. And my experience is based on not only battles with the ARU but also with the QRU and to a lesser extent the NSWRU. The scary thing is that usually it gets down to - 'But you don't have kids why should you care?' Well I care because I like the game, and the fact that I don't have kids means that I feel I am in the rather unique position of being able to look at the bigger picture. I don't deny that I have a barrow to push but in the long run I don't give a shit what sschool you go to, what town you come from, what club you play for, if you have the talent you should have the same opportunities as Xavier or Oliver from Sydney Grammer to do the best you possibly can. And is doesn't matter what that tallent is, be it rugby or tiddly winks.

As for the fact that the kids are 11-14 (the are also camps for 6-12 yo's) the ARU itself said that they were to be "Current rugby players and athletes with previous experience in body contact sports of high ability. Players should be of representative and ‘A’ team standard at club and/or school." Working on this principle Chris Latham, Scott Higginbothom and Rocky Elsom would not have qualified. And how do you tell that a 11YO has high ability? If a kid that young is atherleticly inclined they are going to have 'high ability' for their age in all sports.

 

[Karl]

Offering it in only one location, in one city, is a snub to the rest of the Country for starters. Positioning it as some sort of elite skills development squad when it's really just a holiday workshop for 11 to 14 year olds is either a further insult to our collective intelligence, misleading and deceptive conduct or a prime example of elitist and deluded thinking in a bubble. As others have pointed out, if it really was trying to target highly skilled kids, they would cast their net widely amongst the clubs and ask for nominations. They'd also price it very differently or subsidise it entirely. Bottom line is that this type of activity for kids that age is pointless for the ARU.

Don't know what they're thinking, but it looks like the type of thing an out of touch organization with poor direction might do, and think they were having a great idea while they did it.