Talent wasted in mungo ball

[Brumbies Guy]

different positions. JOC (James O'Connor) would be a 6 or 7. Fainga'a would probably be a 13. Genia probably a 9.

If you were picking a league team of rugby players possibly something like:

1 Hynes
2 Horne
3 Higgers
4 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
5 Davies
6 Cooper
7 Barnes
13 Pocock
12 Ioane
11 Elsom
10 Palu
9 Genia
8 Alexander

I think JOC (James O'Connor) would be a great league fullback. Similar to the Dugan, Barba, Campbell types going around these days. Agreed Fainga'a could also play 13.

TPN would be 1 of the first players I'd look at if I were a league coach too

 

[Scotty]

on the flip side of things, how many Wallaby backs do you think would make the Kangaroos team?

For instance..

7. Thurston vs Genia
6. Lockyer vs Cooper
5. Folou vs Ioane
4. Gasnier vs Fainga'a
3. Inglis vs Ashley-Cooper
2. Hayne vs Mitchell
1. Slator vs O'Connor

If we are being fair (in union positions):

9 Smith vs Genia (even)

10 Thurston vs Cooper (Thurston at this stage)

12 Lockyer vs Giteau (even but I would have chosen Lockyer in his prime)
13 Inglis vs Horne (Inglis)

11 Hayne vs Ashley Cooper (even)
14 Folau vs Ioane (Ioane)

15 Slater vs JOC (James O'Connor) (Slater by a mile)

Based on talent and composure alone (ie not taking into account skillset required for either code) I'd only choose one of the union backs over their league counterparts.

 

[RugbyReg]

I think JOC (James O'Connor) would be a great league fullback. Similar to the Dugan, Barba, Campbell types going around these days. Agreed Fainga'a could also play 13.

TPN would be 1 of the first players I'd look at if I were a league coach too

JOC (James O'Connor) not as direct I don't think, but bang on about TPN! I forgot. He'd be lock ahead of Pocock!

 

[Ash]

It's somewhat of a pity that rugby, league & AFL all actually compete for players & market share. I think time spent in a different code would probably benefit most players if they then went back to the original code. Big names like Wally Lewis, Ricky Stuart & Cooper Cronk all went to league with kicking games developed in union. Berrick Barnes surely would've developed sound defence playing league. Elsom would've added to his game playing league. Folau will take his strength in contact to AFL & if he goes back to league (as speculated), you'd imagine he'll have an improved kicking game from his time in AFL.

I think it would be really interesting to know which league players played union as a junior, and vice versa. And also which players played both league and union.

Prime example is Wally Lewis - I disagree he honed his kicking in union. Lewis was a league junior, his dad was a league coach, and Lewis was always going to play league. However, Lewis went to BSHS (who are a GPS school), and thus played union for his school on Saturday, and league on Sundays for Wynnum Manly if I remember correctly. It's impossible to say which game he "honed his kicking" in.

It's always really interesting to see which schoolboys went to either league or union, but sometimes it's hard to know the real picture about which code poached which player unless you know a bit about the player and his family (like Wally Lewis).

But you have a very very good point - I think that playing both games as a junior will create some more well rounded players.

One of the things I have been interested in recently is the difference in tackling styles between league and union.

 

[DPK]

Pocock and Ben Creagh are like clones, IMO. It's freaky...

 

[Ruggo]

I think it would be really interesting to know which league players played union as a junior, and vice versa. And also which players played both league and union.

Prime example is Wally Lewis - I disagree he honed his kicking in union. Lewis was a league junior, his dad was a league coach, and Lewis was always going to play league. However, Lewis went to BSHS (who are a GPS school), and thus played union for his school on Saturday, and league on Sundays for Wynnum Manly if I remember correctly. It's impossible to say which game he "honed his kicking" in.

It's always really interesting to see which schoolboys went to either league or union, but sometimes it's hard to know the real picture about which code poached which player unless you know a bit about the player and his family (like Wally Lewis).

But you have a very very good point - I think that playing both games as a junior will create some more well rounded players.

One of the things I have been interested in recently is the difference in tackling styles between league and union.

He played for Valleys.

 

[Blue]

Ash

Chambers had a bit of rugby background when he was a junior in Gove.

Nathan Hindmarsh would of bee a good convert. He has the work rate and the intelect to make it.

What position? BAck row?

 

[Ruggo]

Yeah Blue, 6 I would say.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The Wallabies don't need any of these guys IMO. They have the players, its just that said players need to pull finger.

It's hard to base league form to any semblence of union form - for good or bad. Who would have thought Andrew Walker would have rated so high in rugby when I thoought he was fairly mediocre as a leaguie. Medicare Matt had his moments as a rugby player but he was a far better league player for mine. He had very little linkin game when he came to rugby and that showed. interestingly enough, now at the Titans he plays more like a rugby player. Go figure

Luke Rooney seemed to go well in the NH and he was a Origin calibre leaguie. Lets see what happens in the NPC and S14. Based on what I've seen he could possibly be a bolter come 2011....

As for forwards, well if you want no nonesense types that tackle and cart ball up all day then a Hindmarsh or Michael Luck or even Petro could play on a flank in rugby.

Someone mentioned Chambers, when watching his first couple of games this season for the Reds, he was so timid at the collsion areas (when not the ball carrier) that he looked to have no idea whatsoever how or when to really hit a ruck. It seems someone in the Reds camp earned their keep and showed him a few DVD replays amnd worked closely with him, because he was a completely different player in the middle and back end of the seasons. His game seemed to have "matured" significantly as he looked a natural centre trying to win ball at the breakdown and cleaning out for his team mates.

 

[Blue]

Reckon you'e right about Rooney based on the Top 14 games I saw this year. Made more of an impact than MoneyThrills Williams IMHO.

 

[wamberal]

Ash

Chambers had a bit of rugby background when he was a junior in Gove.

Nathan Hindmarsh would of bee a good convert. He has the work rate and the intelect to make it.

Hindmarsh played rugby at school, and also for Australian Schoolboys. Maybe that explains his intellect.

 

[wamberal]

Pocock and Ben Creagh are like clones, IMO. It's freaky...

Ben's father, Dave, played for the Woodies. Mostly twos, from memory, might have played a couple of games in the ones.

 

[dobduff11]

I often think which union players would be good in league so here goes:

1. Lachie Turner
2. Drew Mitchell
3. Adam Ashley-Cooper
4. Digby Ioane
5. Peter Hynes
6. Quade Cooper (just like his beloved Benji)
7. James O'connor

8. Palu
9. Genia
10. TPN
11. Elsom
12. Pocock
13. George Smith (Dick Brown)

I reckon that team would be a finals contending team

 

[rugby_man]

I think there are a few rugby players who would be succesful at playing league. Have a look at this side.

1. James O'Connor
2. Lachie Turner
3. Rob Horne
4. Ryan Cross
5. Drew Mitchell
6. Matt Giteau
7. Berrick Barnes
8. Rocky Elsom
9. Will Genia
10. Wycliff Palu
11. Ben Tapuai
12. Digby Ioane
13. Quade Cooper


In the important positions of 1, 6, 7, 9, 13, I've put play makers as they touch the ball most. Therefore it creates plenty of attacking options. On the edges of the ruck, I'd have Ben Tapuai and Digby Ioane because they can cause plenty of headches with their size and their running game. Wycliff Palu and Rocky Elsom are perfect for the physical contact in the middle of the park. The backline is pretty good as well so it would be a good side all round IMO. Brendan McKibbin would go close to being at hooker instead of Will Genia.

 

[Epi]

Always thought Greg Alexander would have made a great rugby player - long time ago now...

 

[Ruggo]

I belive we may be looking towards the wrong code if we want to convert talant. You could make a good back rower out of an aussie rules player. Speed, good enduring airobic fitness, good hands in the air, good agillity on their feet and a better understanding of playing a football on the ground. It would take some work but the results would be far better than a league player.

 

[Crow]

I'd be really concerned about the defensive skills of an AFL player. I don't know if the time required to convert would be worth the result.

 

[Reddy!]

Well well well, I'm not sure why this is even being discussed as most League players don't have the patience, work ethic or brain to succeed in rugby. Take a look at the Superstars:

Hayne - the most overrated player in League, had a sensational 8 weeks of football in 2009, didn't stand up in the final and has been terrible this year.

Thurston - I don't think draw and pass can get you selected as Wallabies Flyhalf.

Iglis - Lazy, big ego, and I think you would find he would have a very low work rate in rugby compared to somebody like Horne or Fainga'a.

Smith - What does this guy actually do apart from kick shots at goal and cheat the system? Genia is a visionary genius compared to this hit 'em up player.

Lockyer - See Thurston

The only current League Superstar that I would be inclined to persue would be Slater. Fast, takes his opportunities well, works hard on and off the field, isn't a tosser and his skills are more adaptable to the back 3 in rugby than other positions in league.

But forget about the Superstars, some of the smaller names would be better investments as their code switch wouldn't be money fuelled - see Will Chambers success at the Reds this year. Brett Morris and Hindmarsh come to mind.

 

[fatprop]

Smith - What does this guy actually do apart from kick shots at goal and cheat the system? Genia is a visionary genius compared to this hit 'em up player.

The guy is fantastic, defensively strong, aggressive, great vision, good kicking game, quick etc etc. The only issue he would have is his length of pass

 

[WB3]

Well well well, I'm not sure why this is even being discussed as most League players don't have the patience, work ethic or brain to succeed in rugby. Take a look at the Superstars:

Hayne - the most overrated player in League, had a sensational 8 weeks of football in 2009, didn't stand up in the final and has been terrible this year.

Thurston - I don't think draw and pass can get you selected as Wallabies Flyhalf.

Iglis - Lazy, big ego, and I think you would find he would have a very low work rate in rugby compared to somebody like Horne or Fainga'a.

Smith - What does this guy actually do apart from kick shots at goal and cheat the system? Genia is a visionary genius compared to this hit 'em up player.

Lockyer - See Thurston

The only current League Superstar that I would be inclined to persue would be Slater. Fast, takes his opportunities well, works hard on and off the field, isn't a tosser and his skills are more adaptable to the back 3 in rugby than other positions in league.

But forget about the Superstars, some of the smaller names would be better investments as their code switch wouldn't be money fuelled - see Will Chambers success at the Reds this year. Brett Morris and Hindmarsh come to mind.

I agree that converting a small name would be better, but I think you might have slightly underestimated the skill of the first 5 blokes you mentioned. Without making this another Hayne tragics vs Hayne haters argument, I think the weight of expectation means a solid performance is seen as him underperforming. Besides his defensive positioning he is great and would be a good outside centre or fullback in union, if he learnt the game.. Thurston and Lockyer are both awesome playmakers, though I question Thurston's defence at times (a la Quade Cooper, but to a lesser extent). If Inglis lost the ego and a few kgs he would make an excellent 13 - he has the size, aggression and acceleration to be a star, but is hindered by his laziness. Fatprop summed up Smith very well - he is a gun without being amazingly flashy.
I think Slater (and Hindmarsh) played union as kids. If not, I would still back them to make the switch reasonably well, though I feel they are both getting to the age where by the time they truly knew the game they would be past their peak (Hindmarsh would most likely have retired), but a few years back I'd have loved either of them.
Although there is the chance that one day a league superstar could be hugely successful in union, if the ARU wanted the best chance at success they would poach them while young (eg just leaving school) and give them time to learn the game. With just a small ARU contract the talent could be put into playing club football at 1st grade and see if they progress. If they don't its a comparatively small loss, and if they do they will do so with a far more in depth understanding of the game and without the attitude problems of already being a superstar in their own right. It seems that the league signings who go to France tend to flourish (Gasnier, Rooney and SBW all did very well in Top 14) - perhaps because they couldn't take their league fame with them?. Anyway, by the time the stars want to swap codes, they are usually getting past their best anyway. Folau was the exception to that rule though I don't feel he was ever a big chance at being awesome in union anyway.