Sydney Subbies 2025

[Crashy]

Yeah kings need to back themselves in div 3. I’m plumping for the emus with 2 grades and colts next year!

 

[sterlingmortlocksgloves]

Lindfield have proved time and time again they are not a Div 1 club, although might arm wrestle with Drummoyne to hang in, but we know who has the political swing at the subbies board meetings.

Righto mate, Kentwell semi finalists last year. And yes whilst 1st grade didn’t get the results this year (losing 4 games by less than 7 points must I add), 2/3/4 grades finished up just outside the top 4 and 5th grade semi finalists this year.

 

[The Rugby Nurse]

There will be plenty of space for promotion to Div1 next year so I wouldn’t rule out both UNSW & Petersham being promoted.

Newport must have recorded the worst performance across senior grades in Div 1 in a long time. HeavyD will be making a case for Newport to stay in Div1 based on their canteen takings. Rumours at Porters have it they are accepting bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies over the bar next year.

Lindfield have proved time and time again they are not a Div 1 club, although might arm wrestle with Drummoyne to hang in, but we know who has the political swing at the subbies board meetings.

It makes me wonder why Lindfield would change their head coach after taking them to a semi final in 2024. To finish in the top 4 was an amazing effort especially after been given a bit of a touch up in the beginning by Waverley.
Had heard they wanted to go in a different direction but didn't realise that meant downwards.

 

[The Rugby Nurse]

Righto mate, Kentwell semi finalists last year. And yes whilst 1st grade didn’t get the results this year (losing 4 games by less than 7 points must I add), 2/3/4 grades finished up just outside the top 4 and 5th grade semi finalists this year.

That was last year though
What happened this year?

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Newport must have recorded the worst performance across senior grades in Div 1 in a long time. HeavyD will be making a case for Newport to stay in Div1 based on their canteen takings. Rumours at Porters have it they are accepting bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies over the bar next year.

You’ve clearly forgotten the effort from Balmain when they hung on to long and imploded.
That one is going to be hard to beat and they are only just recovering and getting back on there feet.

 

[Fletch]

Yeah kings need to back themselves in div 3. I’m plumping for the emus with 2 grades and colts next year!

Would be great but all the school age kids already at prem colts and it’s a small pool of rugby players already with no opens teams in juniors and only one school playing locally. Lot of work to do in that space.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Here’s a blast from the past trawling through 2019s forum. Mangoman had a crack at putting the divisions together.
Just before the COVID bomb hit, a lot of clubs have fallen and some have risen. Even a few years ago there was still the debate around the bigger numbers of rounds.

Div 1 - 4 Grades + Colts (10 teams)
Drummoyne
Mosman
Blue Mountains
Petersham
Waverley
Colleagues
Knox
Forest (ex Div 2)
St Pats (ex Div 2)
Hunters Hill (ex Div 2)

Balmain drops out for obvious reasons. Forest, St Pats and Hunters Hill come up after a solid 2019 season in Div 2 for all 3 clubs on the field and numbers wise to make Kentwell a 10 team competition again. Div 1 restructured to only 4 grades as the Sutherland Cup is slowly dying off (only 5-6 of the 10 teams can consistently put out a 5ths).

Div 2 - 3 Grades + Colts (8 teams)
Hills
Epping
Lindfield
Barker
UNSW
Redfield (ex Div 3)
Blacktown (ex Div 3)
Newport (ex Div 3)

Redfield, Blacktown and Newport make the jump up from Div 3 after very strong seasons across the board. Div 2 restructured to drop the Richardson Cup (4ths) so there is no extra obligation to the new clubs to put on another grade since only 4 of the 8 teams here can field a 4th grade currently anyway. Safer to go with less grade numbers than more and have clubs over extend themselves. The clubs that can field a 4ths currently would be farmed into Halligans.

Div 3 - 3 Grades - No Colts (9 teams)
UWS Hawkesbury
Hawkesbury Valley
Beecroft
Old Iggies
Balmain (ex Div 1)
Sydney Harlequins (ex Div 4)
Briars (ex Div 4)
Canterbury (ex Div 4)
Macquarie Uni (ex Div 4)

This is about where Balmain belong after their 2019 (no colts for a majority of the year and only 2 grades for the last half of the season) They should be able to find another 15 guys to run around on a Saturday arvo to make up a 3rds. Quins, Briars, Canterbury and Mac Uni come up as all clubs have proven they can hold 3 grades easily. I had to drop the colts out since 5 of 9 clubs have shown they can sustain a side. These 5 teams would form the basis of Radford Cup. Scheduling might be a bit of a pain in the ass here with a bye week but the clubs all seem to be where they belong.

Div 4 - 2 Grades (8 teams)
Oatley
Sydney Irish
Northern Saints
Brothers (ex Div 3)
Convicts (ex Div 5)
Mosman (5th and 6th grades)
Colleagues (5th and 6th grades)
Burraneer (ex Div 5 - colts & player overflow creates 2nd grade)
Chatswood (ex Div 6 - colts & player overflow creates 2nd grade)

Oatley, Irish and Saints stay in Div 4 and Brothers join them after all their 3rds went missing towards the back end of the year or they just never had them to begin with. Relying on Mosman and Colleagues to continue their strong numbers each week to bolster up competition numbers, they would play at home on opposite weeks to their Div 1 teams. Burraneer and Chatswood make the leap after showing they can field a colts for 2019, generally the 2nd grade level is about what Radford Cup colts is so this should be a good fit.

Div 5a - 1 Grade (6 teams - "A" graded competition)
Merrylands (ex Div 4)
Engadine
North Cronulla
Raptors
Manly
Lane Cove

Merrylands moves back down after experimenting in Div 4 and not much coming of it. Engadine, North Cronulla, Raptors, Manly and Lane Cove all had fairly strong showings so are graded in the "A" competition. Only a 6 team competition but is probably for the best considering adding a 7th team would put a bye week in. Less byes the better.

Div 5b - 1 Grade (8 teams - "B" graded competition)
Maccabi
Dukes
Wakehurst
Renegades
Kings (ex Halligan)
Menai (ex Halligan)
Petersham (5th grade)
Waverley (5th grade)

Maccabi, Dukes, Wakehurst and Renegades all had either 50% win/loss record or less so get thrown into the "B" grade. Kings and Menai both showed they could maintain a side each week in Halligans so should be encouraged to join the fold. Petersham and Waverley both had 5 grades consistently throughout the season in Div 1 and not much looks to change here. Half times changed to 30 (possibly 35) mins for a more social competition closer to the grade that these teams should probably find themselves. To cater for Petersham and Waverley, game times moved from 3.15 to 2.10, this allows the 5ths to stay involved with their Div 1 club on game days at home (something like - 4ths @ 9.40, Colts @ 10.35, 3rds @ 11.50, 2nds @ 12.55, 5 "B" @ 2.10, 1sts @ 3.15)

Radford Cup (8 teams)
UWS Hawkesbury
Hawkesbury Valley
Beecroft
Old Iggies
Briars
Mosman II
Colleagues II
Uni of Wollongong
Any other clubs with a colts side not already in a competition.

Now my knowledge of Radford Cup is sketchy at best but all 8 clubs have shown they can field a colts so having a proper 14 week competition in line with the rest of Subbies would help.

Halligan Cup (currently 9 teams, in order of Division restructure)

Drummoyne 5ths
Blue Mountains 5ths
Forest 5ths
Mosman 7ths
Hills 4ths
Epping 4ths
Lindfield 4ths
UNSW 4ths
Kings 2nds
Any other clubs with a surplus grade.

 

[Footyhead67]

Newport relegated and Hills promoted to Div 2 off the back of 3 solid grade sides this year makes a pretty competitive Div 2 for next year.

Redfield and Hawkesbury Valley promoted to Div 3 as they’re clearly above the standard of Div 5.

I think Hills must be promoted for next year, however their 1st grade not appearing in the grand final adds a little question mark over promotion. I don't think the gap between first grades in Div 2 and 3 is as big as most think. Sydney Irish, Clark Cup premiers in 2024 pushed almost premiers Petersham to a 2 point margin last week. I'm confident Hills would be highly competitive.

Also for the fairness of Div 3 2nd grade, if Div 3 clubs were to see Hills in the Farrant Cup next year, it would sink a lot of hearts. Especially considering no sides are expected to be dropped from Div 2, and with a few coming up from 'Div 5', it would be a similar level of competition. I'm sure they would benefit from the extra competition and also their 3rd grade having more competitive weekly fixtures.

Redfield started the season with their 1st grade winning 9 in a row, and 2nd grade winning 6. To end the season without a premiership is a bit disappointing. Valley's numbers have always been volatile and you don't know what your'e getting til close to the season. I do think Kings would struggle if they were promoted to Div 3 next year. Would probably have to somehow go to Div 5 to strengthen grade whilst still playing a colts team. Div 5 is a lot stronger than Div 4, I understand the whole prioritising colts thing but if the Subbies website still has the McLean and Grose Cups as those under Div 4 just change it back.

 

[hogieslammer]

I think Hills must be promoted for next year, however their 1st grade not appearing in the grand final adds a little question mark over promotion.

Hills definitely deserve a promotion to Div 2; club champs, finished regular season undefeated in Farrant and 2nd in Clark, as well as a strong showing from their Halligan side to make it to the unofficial Halligan GF.

Their depth is insane and they had enough star power to have first grade quality players play 70 mins in 2’s and back it up with a strong performance in the 1’s.

only possible question mark would be if they can field a colts team

 

[Numberthree]

I think Hills must be promoted for next year, however their 1st grade not appearing in the grand final adds a little question mark over promotion. I don't think the gap between first grades in Div 2 and 3 is as big as most think. Sydney Irish, Clark Cup premiers in 2024 pushed almost premiers Petersham to a 2 point margin last week. I'm confident Hills would be highly competitive

I think the gap is bigger than you say. Irish were premiers but only won 6 games this year, and everyone tells me div 2 was weaker this year. Yeah they ran Petersham close but that's finals footy, anything can happen. Petersham also ran up 50 against them a few weeks back and UNSW did the same a couple of times.

 

[CrashBandicoot2]

Righto mate, Kentwell semi finalists last year. And yes whilst 1st grade didn’t get the results this year (losing 4 games by less than 7 points must I add), 2/3/4 grades finished up just outside the top 4 and 5th grade semi finalists this year.

4 games by less than 7. Surely not being able to move past both a 12 man Blue Mountains and 13 man HH show that the team isnt up to Div 1 at this point. 5th grade semi finalists in a 5 team comp shouldnt be a flex either.

 

[Pfitzy]

By some of the logic presented here, we should just have a 5-club Div 1 and everyone else can get in the sea

 

[CrashBandicoot2]

Hills definitely deserve a promotion to Div 2; club champs, finished regular season undefeated in Farrant and 2nd in Clark, as well as a strong showing from their Halligan side to make it to the unofficial Halligan GF.

Their depth is insane and they had enough star power to have first grade quality players play 70 mins in 2’s and back it up with a strong performance in the 1’s.

only possible question mark would be if they can field a colts team

Hills burgled a Premiership in 3rd Div this year - Should never have been dropped down given the strength of their club and almost had numbers for 4 grades each week.
Rumours of some player disagreements caused a split, which led to 6-7 1st grade players only wanting to play 2's. Probably why they smoked 2nd Grade and were poor in 1's.

 

[EddieJones1985]

Petersham deserve to go up if they want it, that’s how the club champs works so it would be a shame to not honour that.

Although how tasty will be to ignite the Newport/UNSW rivalry in Div two and add in Hills to that mix. Lindfield will bounce back for sure, they have too many numbers to not be competitor next year in Div one. That would be my pick, Petersham up, Newport down.

 

[Heavyd]

Petersham deserve to go up if they want it, that’s how the club champs works so it would be a shame to not honour that.

Although how tasty will be to ignite the Newport/UNSW rivalry in Div two and add in Hills to that mix. Lindfield will bounce back for sure, they have too many numbers to not be competitor next year in Div one. That would be my pick, Petersham up, Newport down.

Newport vs Forest is the fiercest rival in world rugby!

 

[Crashy]

Would be great but all the school age kids already at prem colts and it’s a small pool of rugby players already with no opens teams in juniors and only one school playing locally. Lot of work to do in that space.

yeah fair enough. A job that the West Sydney program should have at the top of their list!

 

[footy_footy]

Div 2 ends with a fairly even premiership spread - 2 UNSW, 1 Petersham, 1 St Pat's and 1 Forest. Always difficult to win multiple premierships in a Division as your depth gets well and truly tested so well done UNSW.

Petersham would be ruing the soft red card - was 12-0 at that in their favour which was followed by 3 Uni tries.

Briars with a strong year would be disappointed they left with no silverware. Forest turn a 6-8 regular season into a Premiership in 4s to make sure they didn't leave empty handed.

Second year in a row St Pat's Colts not troubled on GF day with a 28-7 win over UNSW. Pats colts over the past few years in the conversation for top performers but can they translate that into grade success?

Am told there was some pretty average behaviour during the 3rd grade GF with players and spectators coming together. GF day will always bring out the best and worst of some clubs.

Also two big upsets in the JJC grand finals - Hornsby and St Pat's both beating their undefeated opponent 14-12 at Merrylands. Well done!

 

[Pfitzy]

Am told there was some pretty average behaviour during the 3rd grade GF with players and spectators coming together. GF day will always bring out the best and worst of some clubs.

It's on the video. Started with a knock on by the Briars winger followed by a head rub from one of UNSW's centres

 

[Footyhead67]

It's on the video. Started with a knock on by the Briars winger followed by a head rub from one of UNSW's centres

Time stamp?

 

[Pfitzy]

Second half - game clock says 23:10