Sydney Subbies 2025

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

I wonder if Subbies will be regretting not going to a 3 team finals series in the 6 team comps. With this run of wet weather most of the top 3 have been decided a long time ago in each grade but the 4th team is still a toss up. Subbies could of pulled the pin on the games that need to be rescheduled but don’t matter for finals given the forecast

 

[Oak_Wood]

Hope no one played on Camperdown oval last week otherwise the field will be like razor blades on the weekend when it dries out.

Petersham to take it for me, UNSW have dropped the ball far to often this year when they could have run away with it.

Hills to take the minor premiership as well in 1st Grade after player shortages starting to bite at Beecroft. Tipping Hills to take home the trophies in 1s, 2s and Halligans. Seems to be a misstep from Subbies not having them in Division 2 this year.

Hills in 1st's predication didn't age well, even with 16 players on the field - Hills MVP the one with the whistle!

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Hills in 1st's predication didn't age well, even with 16 players on the field - Hills MVP the one with the whistle!

I’ll reserve judgement till we see who comes away on Grandfinal day

 

[Pfitzy]

Don't kill the messenger https://rugbyresults.fusesport.com/game.asp?gameid=284739&compid=1674524&seasonid=1301

View attachment 23105

Looks likes like that was wrong! Corrected now.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

@Pfitzy what happens if this weather forecast holds and we get the majority of games washed out next week?
Obviously Div 1 has more time to catch up. But if the catch up games aren’t played in the lower divisions aren’t played then do they just become void and the table stands as is?
Similarly if the Div 5 finals are washed out does the highest placed team go through?

Or are we in uncharted waters with this weather and the timing and Subbies will have to make it up on the run? I remember a Div 1 finals day that was played in a field resembling a swimming pool so I assume the preference will be to play finals in whatever conditions are possible.

 

[Pfitzy]

I believe we're in uncharted waters.

I know that last year when we had a washout round it was the first time it happened during Tim Richards' time at the helm which is quite a few years now.

Looking just at Division 6 - Top 5 right now has all the finals competitors in sight:

62 Savers
58 Merrylands
40 Oysters*
37 Penrith
33 GRR**

There are two fixtures to catch up: Georges River (5) v Sydney Harbour (3), and Oatley (7) v Georges River (5)

GRR want at least the game against Oatley to go their way. If Oatley decide to forfeit, that hands GRR a semifinal spot at the expense of Penrith.

So Emus will want the game to be played, but GRR might just win with a BP anyway (38), so the game against Harbour might become irrelevant but GRR know they can't forfeit that, or they lose 2 points and fall back behind Penrith. Harbour could also forfeit and drop to 38 points but won't change their finals spot.

Likely outcome - unfortunately for Penrith - is Oatley forfeit as they're out of finals contention, and Harbour v GRR goes ahead.

 

[Pfitzy]

I remember a Div 1 finals day that was played in a field resembling a swimming pool so I assume the preference will be to play finals in whatever conditions are possible.

I can't see a situation where finals aren't played, so even with the weather would suggest Fifth Division goes ahead as planned and then the rest is contingent on suitable grounds being available for catch up matches.

It's a bloody mess, in short.

There's a plastic field near me that could be used. Marked for league but Blacktown played Valley there a few years back from memory

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

There’s a fair bit of competition for spots in Div 2 and 3 still across all grades meaning a lot of clubs will be pushing to play. Especially given the final structure ladder position is extremely important. I’m sure the grain fed, Europe vactioned colts would like a shot at finishing minor premiers.

Div 4 looks to be locked and loaded and could start tomorrow despite the catch up games.

Wonder how many clubs will try something different to get games on next week and how many will say they’ve had enough of 2925 and pull then pin.

 

[Pfitzy]

Another one with minor implications is Nicholson Cup Colts in Div 3 - Knox have Colleagues II and Hornsby to catch up

61 LC Old Iggies
53 Knox
44 Old Barker
28 Beecroft
25 Hornsby
12 Colleagues II

Should Hornsby win, they can displace Beecroft, and LCOIRFC take the minor premiership.

If Colleagues II decide to forfeit, and Knox or Hornsby find a ground next week, it could decide which order they finish in and could be a massive leg up.

I refereed LCOIRFC and Barker on Saturday and will say there wasn't a lot between them, tho LCOIRFC murdered a few chances there.

The Barker #7 was superb - he got my 3 points for a titanic defensive effort, winning some key turnover penalties right on their defending line.

I'm not Barker's favourite guy after awarding the match winner after the bell in what was a tight race to the ball.

 

[Pfitzy]

Second Division with one round left + Catch up games as listed:
Barraclough - can't change as the points gap is too large across the top 5.
Stockdale - implications for both semifinals given the current points gaps
Blunt - catch up game between UNSW and Petersham. Odds are UNSW win that and the minor premiership. However the gap from 2nd-6th is only 4 points... All to play for in Thirsty Thirds.
Richardson - catch up game UNSW and Shammes. Changes possible for top 3. Forest can't be moved from 4th.
Robertson - Pats (61) a distance in front of Shammies (46) with a gap to UNSW (31) and Forest (30). Therefore top 2 decided, positions for 3 & 4 TBC.

My Logical Conclusion - play the makeup games for Blunt, Richardson, and Robertson ASAP on the plastic somewhere as it may go a ways to deciding a washout.

e.g. if UNSW beat Shammies in Colts, unlikely Forest can get out of 4th

 

[Fletch]

I believe we're in uncharted waters.

I know that last year when we had a washout round it was the first time it happened during Tim Richards' time at the helm which is quite a few years now.

Looking just at Division 6 - Top 5 right now has all the finals competitors in sight:

62 Savers
58 Merrylands
40 Oysters*
37 Penrith
33 GRR**

There are two fixtures to catch up: Georges River (5) v Sydney Harbour (3), and Oatley (7) v Georges River (5)

GRR want at least the game against Oatley to go their way. If Oatley decide to forfeit, that hands GRR a semifinal spot at the expense of Penrith.

So Emus will want the game to be played, but GRR might just win with a BP anyway (38), so the game against Harbour might become irrelevant but GRR know they can't forfeit that, or they lose 2 points and fall back behind Penrith. Harbour could also forfeit and drop to 38 points but won't change their finals spot.

Likely outcome - unfortunately for Penrith - is Oatley forfeit as they're out of finals contention, and Harbour v GRR goes ahead.

The GRR v Harbour game I was told is not going to be replayed but would be interested in the rules around it to clarify if any pending deductions looming etc? How many games can a team forfeit without bigger penalties? Looking at our game stopped against Oatley its still down as 26-0 should it be 28-0? didn't expect it to be so important now. And whats the latest the game can be played when it determines finals before a finals weekend?

 

[CrashBandicoot2]

Div 1 Updates
Waverley continue to put some misery into Newport. How does a 3rd grade game end up 97-0 in Div 1?
Drummoyne keep putting up a fight but couldnt match it in the end with Mountains
Mosman destroyed a very disappointing Colleagues, who are now done for the season despite being vocal about their recruitment pre season
HH managed to win with 13 against Lindfield. HH even benched half their starting side, Not sure how Lindfield couldn't finish the job against a weakened outfit, might be time for trip back to Div 2?

 

[footy_footy]

Less than 7 days before finals start. Anyone have any idea where these games will be played? I'd imagine the games will be heading west as the coastal fringe has really copped it/seemed as though the Western Sydney councils were more agreeable to keeping fields open.

If this rain does come as forecast it is difficult to see an outcome other than a washout.

 

[Footyhead67]

Waverley continue to put some misery into Newport. How does a 3rd grade game end up 97-0 in Div 1

Newport must go down and with Hills coming up that makes Div 2 a strong 8 team division. IMO Lindfield should stay in Div 1 unless they want to drop as they've fielded 5 grades all season.

 

[footy_footy]

I'm reluctant to ever sympathise with/for Newport given how openly they carry on when the going is good. You'd be forgiven for thinking that they're only club with a home ground that sells beers and has supporters!!

Subbies rugby outside of the top 4 or 5 clubs is cyclical. Newport seem to have peaked in 2024 and since lost some key players. You come against stronger opposition on a consistent basis and all of a sudden your depth is tested and the cracks start to show. The wet weather has affected some clubs more than others in 2025 and Newport would definitely be one of the clubs affected more but they aren't the only one. Whether they want to stay in Div 1 is for them to work out. Whether Div 1 remains 8 clubs also an interesting question.

My honest view is that the current model is broken and there will be a revolving door of the same clubs at the bottom of Div 1/top of Div 2. I can't see Petersham being competitive in Div 1. Their 4th Grade is running dead last with a single win for the season in a pretty weak Richardson Cup. Would be nasty stuff if they played Judd v Waverley, Colleagues, Mosman, Blue Mountains etc. Their 3s may scrape into finals with a less than 50% win record. That sort of depth doesn't bode well. I know they don't lead the club champs but I think UNSW would be a slight better option than Petersham but wouldn't expect them to fare any better than Newport unless they really went hard on the recruitment.

 

[CrashBandicoot2]

Newport must go down and with Hills coming up that makes Div 2 a strong 8 team division. IMO Lindfield should stay in Div 1 unless they want to drop as they've fielded 5 grades all season.

I initially read this and Hills coming up - meaning into Div 1. Which would have been a wild statement.

Would you rather save your Div 1 spot with Colleagues at Colleagues - Or travel to Lapstone?

Both sides will lose 1st Grade - Do we see a lower grade stack job from one of these upstanding clubs

 

[Footyhead67]

Whether Div 1 remains 8 clubs also an interesting question.

I can't see Petersham being competitive in Div 1.

A 7 team Div 1 is the only realistic option for 2026 IMO. Promoting Petersham or UNSW to Div 1 would show Subbies are unable to learn from anything as Petersham/UNSW are less dominant than what Newport or Lindfield have been in Div 2 in the previous 2 years before being promoted. It would just see the same outcome as Newport in Div 1 this year.

Would you rather save your Div 1 spot with Colleagues at Colleagues - Or travel to Lapstone?

Colleagues ladies day or Back to Lappo? Start planning mad Monday I reckon.

I think Newport colts will be the only team to win this weekend out of them and Lindfield against their opposition this weekend.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

My honest view is that the current model is broken and there will be a revolving door of the same clubs at the bottom of Div 1/top of Div 2. I can't see Petersham being competitive in Div 1. Their 4th Grade is running dead last with a single win for the season in a pretty weak Richardson Cup. Would be nasty stuff if they played Judd v Waverley, Colleagues, Mosman, Blue Mountains etc. Their 3s may scrape into finals with a less than 50% win record. That sort of depth doesn't bode well. I know they don't lead the club champs but I think UNSW would be a slight better option than Petersham but wouldn't expect them to fare any better than Newport unless they really went hard on the recruitment.

Your right the system is broken, but the Big 6 in Division 1 aren’t untouchable this decline will catch up with them. Drummoyne are fighting it hard at the moment but imagine the year they would have if they had to play the other 5 3 times. No one wants to admit it at the top cause they don’t have the answers on how to fix it.

We are told if you run your club better or start preparing for season 2027 now you’ll be able to get all the players and sponsors you want. It’s just not true, the mentality of players isn’t the same as 10 years ago.

Personally I think you need push more teams into Division 1 than less. Ideally you’d have 13 teams that you could spread your match ups against the top end of town out throughout the year and have more teams on a similar level. But the current Div 2 doesn’t have the depth for this that it did 5-10 years ago.

I’ve mentioned it before, there’s an ever widening gap between the big 6 teams and everyone else. No club has the depth to challenge these sides.

 

[Pfitzy]

Referencing the Operations Manual @Fletch : https://rugby.net.au/ResDetail.asp?id=17681&OrgID=132&menu=637

The GRR v Harbour game I was told is not going to be replayed but would be interested in the rules around it to clarify if any pending deductions looming etc?

Reading under 11. ABANDONMENT OF MATCH

If the instruction is that the game is not to be replayed, it would be an unusual situation. In such unusual situations I don't know if any deductions would apply. This is effectively the catch-all if we're talking about a brawl breaking out as indicated earlier in this thread:

11.3 There are 2 exceptions to rule 11.2:
(a) In the case of 11.1(c), when disruption to a match has been deemed to have been caused by actions contrary to the Union’s Competition and Playing Rules by one team or the other, or both, or by their officials and supporters, in which case the Union shall refer the matter to its Judiciary Committee for consideration and any necessary action.

and

11.4 An abandoned match shall be replayed at a future time and place as agreed by both teams. If no agreement is reached, the match shall be replayed at a time and place designated by the Union. Should either team elect not to replay the match, the other team shall win on forfeit.

How many games can a team forfeit without bigger penalties? Looking at our game stopped against Oatley its still down as 26-0 should it be 28-0? didn't expect it to be so important now.

I assume that was due to Oatley running out of numbers? Must have minimum 11 on the park or you forfeit under 9. FORFEITS

9.5 A minimum of 11 players is needed to constitute a team for NSWSRU competition matches. Any team unable to field 11 players within ten minutes of the official kick-off time, or at any stage during the match, for whatever reason, including temporary suspensions or send-offs, shall forfeit the match without right of appeal. Teams playing against an opposition with less than 15 players are not required to match opposition team numbers.

This looks like a 28-0 result on the website but the app still has 26-0 for some reason. I suspect because the app submitted scores but it was manually update

NSW Suburban Rugby Union

rugbyresults.fusesport.com

In terms of penalties refer to 9.4

9.4 Any club which forfeits two or more competition matches in a grade (except Sutherland and Halligan Cups) shall be called to appear before, or give a written submission to the Clubs, Competition and Rules Sub-Committee at a time notified by the NSWSRU. The Sub-Committee may recommend to the Board appropriate action be taken in the form of a fine, suspension, or withdrawal from the competition, or additional loss of competition and/or club championship points.

And whats the latest the game can be played when it determines finals before a finals weekend?

Instructions for replaying matches in wet weather circumstances are under 10. GROUNDS UNFIT FOR PLAY

10.1.6 Should either club already have a deferred match scheduled for the next proximate wet weather weekend (or if there are no wet weather weekends remaining) and another match needs to be rescheduled then this match will be played within 15 days after it was originally scheduled unless otherwise decided by the Executive Director. Should any last round matches be deferred then these must be played prior to the semi finals.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Should any last round matches be deferred then these must be played prior to the semi finals.

That is the million dollar question that everyone is wondering how they are going to do it.
Some clubs will get lucky this week and find a ground, I’m sure they’ll get finals happening somewhere but catching up all games looks impossible. Not even looking at Div 1..