Sydney Subbies 2025

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Speaking of competition structures: I was talking to a smart cookie today - stalwart of the Subbies landscape - who opined that Premier Rugby should look at a change of model.

While I was in favour of the Scorched Earth approach he came with a far more measured suggestion.

Each Premier club should reform into the following 4 teams:
* Senior A Squad
* Senior Reserves
* U21 Colts
* U19 Colts

This would mean a direct pathway for school leavers into an appropriate pathway for their development, allowing clubs to graduate their key players through age groups as they grow.

In parallel with this the representative squads would continue to operate as U18 and U20 in order to help fill these gaps.

No reason the best of these kids couldn't go straight to U20 of course, but we'd help catch the late bloomers as well with this sort of approach, and have a continuous increment of player aspiration and development.

Add to that a women’s team.
Again you are seeing clubs start to warehouse women’s players and run 2 or more teams.

I think over the next few years we are going to see a big drop off of clubs and the “big” end of town get bigger and more clubs with only 1 or 2 teams.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Also the one thing to think about with adding Women’s into the day is how it all fits into the current day.
I’m a big believer of having a women’s side and including them in the day. But as we have said with finals already. Starting a 5th grade at 9am to fit everything in or asking a 3rd grader to wait 2 hours to back up for 2s when womens and colts are in between is a tough sell.

 

[Subbies Footy Enthusiast]

Talk that Div 3 is now destined to be 6 clubs only - Western Raptors and Hawkesbury Valley not having the requisite 2 x Grades + Colts. Barker may only field 1st Grade, could a Div 1 club like Mosman save the day and backfill Barker’s 2nd Grade with their 6th Grade? A 4 team finals series is somewhat mickey mouse - especially if 2nd Grade only has 5 clubs overall. Like Div 2, no real advantage for finishing top 2 on the ladder, with only a knockout two week finals series. Watch this space

 

[footy_footy]

Talk that Div 3 is now destined to be 6 clubs only - Western Raptors and Hawkesbury Valley not having the requisite 2 x Grades + Colts. Barker may only field 1st Grade, could a Div 1 club like Mosman save the day and backfill Barker’s 2nd Grade with their 6th Grade? A 4 team finals series is somewhat mickey mouse - especially if 2nd Grade only has 5 clubs overall. Like Div 2, no real advantage for finishing top 2 on the ladder, with only a knockout two week finals series. Watch this space

I've heard similar and the 2025 season outside Division 1 is concerning. When we get to the middle of the season, players go on holidays and the attrition of week to week football sets in there could be a high % of forfeits and clubs missing regular game time. If clubs are struggling before Round 1, it is unlikely to be much better in round 9!

I don't envy Subbies having to deal with this less than a month before round 1. Hindsight is a beautiful thing but it would seem the previous unwavering commitment to an 8x8x8x8 division structure has, with the passage of time, caused issues in the present day. The "one size fits all" approach won't work.

I think that if the Div 2 6 club division works well (which it does on paper) it could be the blueprint for the future of Subbies. The alternate I guess would be to mirror a Shute Shield style draw with 12 clubs.

 

[Pfitzy]

Hindsight is a beautiful thing but it would seem the previous unwavering commitment to an 8x8x8x8 division structure has, with the passage of time, caused issues in the present day. The "one size fits all" approach won't work.

On the other hand, it gave clubs certainty about the requirements; trying to get back to a "normal" season of full home and away so there could be a fair Club Championship in place to contest - regardless of any concerns over promotion or relegation. I'm thinking about rewarding clubs for onfield consistency here e.g. Raptors won the CC in Div 4 last year despite losing both GFs.

The 6-club system is a very difficult sell if you're a weaker club and you get one of the big boys away twice.

 

[Pfitzy]

Meanwhile, the Halligan Cup WhatsApp is littered with a barrage of request for games from clubs of all sizes.

This indicates there are players. It might be that everyone is just looking for exactly the level of game time and opposition they want.

I get that it is a tough sell for some; an old fart like me would like to just play old farts, but sometimes in life you've just got to sack up and take a few lumps from a bloke half your age. Similarly the bloke who is 60kg dripping wet coming up against someone twice their size.

Where's the spirit?

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

The issue for Subbies is that clubs aren’t open and honest about there numbers before the start of the season. There’s a head in the sand she will be right come round 1 attitude and also a stigma attached to being demoted. So clubs hanging on until it becomes completely untenable.
We see clubs drop out a week before or week into the season and Subbies are stuck.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

I think that if the Div 2 6 club division works well (which it does on paper) it could be the blueprint for the future of Subbies. The alternate I guess would be to mirror a Shute Shield style draw with 12 clubs.

I think the opposite. There needs to be a push back towards larger divisions (I mentioned a few weeks ago about splitting the divisions for finals). We don’t want to go back to the 18-20 round season but you should just play everyone once.
The transition between divisions is much easier when you’re not playing the top teams week in week out. Look at the challenge in front of Irish this year. Plus if a club falls over you are only affected for 1 round rather than potentially 3 in a 6 team comp.

 

[Propsruntheworld]

Headed down for a look. Penrith had about 20 players, Epping had approximately 28-30.

they played four quarters. Penrith scored in the first two minutes and led 5-0 for most of the game.

Epping scored two late tries.

Penrith have some big boppers - whom it would be fair to say are carrying a bit of off season condition. They started well but tired in the very warm conditions. Especially in the last quarter.

Id imagine the Penrith people would be happy to get the first trial under the belt yet would be hoping for more players if they hope to field 2 teams (they aren’t alone there(

There were no colts to be seen and the bar guy confirmed that’s a next year thing.

What about the Emu Burger? is it back?

 

[BJT]

Speaking of competition structures: I was talking to a smart cookie today - stalwart of the Subbies landscape - who opined that Premier Rugby should look at a change of model.

While I was in favour of the Scorched Earth approach he came with a far more measured suggestion.

Each Premier club should reform into the following 4 teams:
* Senior A Squad
* Senior Reserves
* U21 Colts
* U19 Colts

This would mean a direct pathway for school leavers into an appropriate pathway for their development, allowing clubs to graduate their key players through age groups as they grow.

In parallel with this the representative squads would continue to operate as U18 and U20 in order to help fill these gaps.

No reason the best of these kids couldn't go straight to U20 of course, but we'd help catch the late bloomers as well with this sort of approach, and have a continuous increment of player aspiration and development.

I get it as a concept around premier rugby, but I don't think it assists in the rejuvination of subbies rugby.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

I get it as a concept around premier rugby, but I don't think it assists in the rejuvination of subbies rugby.

There would need to be a co-ordinated approach(I’m laughing as I write this) to move those guys in the lower grades to Subbies clubs maybe on a dual rego at first till everyone got used to it and the clubs could call on them afterwards if needed. But if they just cut the grades there will be a bunch who just don’t play

 

[BJT]

There would need to be a co-ordinated approach(I’m laughing as I write this) to move those guys in the lower grades to Subbies clubs maybe on a dual rego at first till everyone got used to it and the clubs could call on them afterwards if needed. But if they just cut the grades there will be a bunch who just don’t play

Therein lies the issue, it works on an assumption that players, coaches and volunteers will just move to another club, even in a dual registration approach. That approach got tried with colts a few years back and never stuck.

As we've seen with many subbies clubs who have either fallen over, or had way too many players, the spare players don't generally go somewhere else to get a game, they just stop.

 

[Goober]

What about the Emu Burger? is it back?

It’s back in name - but and this could be controversial - I don’t think the meat pattie is the same. It somehow tasted different/less than the Emu burger I remembered . I don’t know if they have a new meat meat supplier or someone making the patties but something was different.
Couldn’t quite put my finger on it. I might have to go back to another game and try another just to verify.

 

[CrashBandicoot2]

Talk that Div 3 is now destined to be 6 clubs only - Western Raptors and Hawkesbury Valley not having the requisite 2 x Grades + Colts. Barker may only field 1st Grade, could a Div 1 club like Mosman save the day and backfill Barker’s 2nd Grade with their 6th Grade? A 4 team finals series is somewhat mickey mouse - especially if 2nd Grade only has 5 clubs overall. Like Div 2, no real advantage for finishing top 2 on the ladder, with only a knockout two week finals series. Watch this space

As in Raptors and Valley dont have colts - or have colts but not a 2's team?

Alot of teams may have to cop not playing or getting Halligans up at the last minute.

The answer might be clubs with 2-3 grade teams and No colts to ensure that everyone gets to play week in week out.

 

[Subbies Footy Enthusiast]

I think their issue is more with Colts, but 2nd Grade numbers may be light on too

 

[Pfitzy]

The answer might be clubs with 2-3 grade teams and No colts to ensure that everyone gets to play week in week out.

Many moons ago, Div 4 was 3 Grades no Colts.

But that was back in the days of
5+Colts
4+Colts
3+Colts
3
2
1

 

[Rhino_rugby]

Therein lies the issue, it works on an assumption that players, coaches and volunteers will just move to another club, even in a dual registration approach. That approach got tried with colts a few years back and never stuck.

As we've seen with many subbies clubs who have either fallen over, or had way too many players, the spare players don't generally go somewhere else to get a game, they just stop.

Yeah, that’s the real challenge. The assumption that players, coaches, and volunteers will just shift clubs doesn’t always hold up.
The colts' experiment showed it’s not that simple.....

When clubs fold or struggle, many players don’t relocate they just step away from the game entirely.

 

[Let it sing]

A real shame to hear Raptors have pulled the pin on Colts. I understood this is where predominantly the Colts players were directed after the western Sydney training camp. Raptors like Renegades could be a real force if they build sustainable momentum.

Word I’ve heard is that Two Blues are aggressively recruiting and have targeted these guys. As per earlier comments until there is a unified approach it will sadly be dog eat dog.

With Colts seen by Subbies to be the future perhaps time to fight fire with fire and allow basic payments to u21 players. Before being chastised this would give clubs a chance to get these guys loving Union over league and with the right environment/club culture these guys would hang around in future years.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

A real shame to hear Raptors have pulled the pin on Colts. I understood this is where predominantly the Colts players were directed after the western Sydney training camp. Raptors like Renegades could be a real force if they build sustainable momentum.

Word I’ve heard is that Two Blues are aggressively recruiting and have targeted these guys. As per earlier comments until there is a unified approach it will sadly be dog eat dog.

With Colts seen by Subbies to be the future perhaps time to fight fire with fire and allow basic payments to u21 players. Before being chastised this would give clubs a chance to get these guys loving Union over league and with the right environment/club culture these guys would hang around in future years.

Looks to be a bit of movement on the Subbies website amongst the divisions with both Raptors and Valley now in Division 5 making that an 8 team comp.

Crazy when you think about it for Raptors when as you say they were gifted a bunch of Colts who have now gone elsewhere.

There would have t be serious concerns now in that Div 3 comp for the viability of GHD 2s comp if the rumours are to be believed with both Beecroft and Barker struggling for numbers in a 6 team comp

Will thus be the end of the changes???

 

[CrashBandicoot2]

Looks to be a bit of movement on the Subbies website amongst the divisions with both Raptors and Valley now in Division 5 making that an 8 team comp.

Crazy when you think about it for Raptors when as you say they were gifted a bunch of Colts who have now gone elsewhere.

There would have t be serious concerns now in that Div 3 comp for the viability of GHD 2s comp if the rumours are to be believed with both Beecroft and Barker struggling for numbers in a 6 team comp

Will thus be the end of the changes???

Div 3 and 4 seem to be a bit of a basket case now. Small comps, teams not filling their requirements.

Strange to have a Thriving Div 1, then a bit of a mess all the way down before Div 5 and 6.

Overs/Unders for Forfeitts and No Shows this year?