Sydney Subbies 2018

[Pfitzy]

There are also clubs who enforce a train-for-selection policy, and the guys who can't/won't train are happy ripping it up in Thirds e.g. Oatley.

 

[Footyhead#2]

In all instances it is player led, not club led. The club would much prefer those guys playing higher grades but you can't force people to do something they don't want to do.

 

[The Year Of]

But isn't subbies just all of that anyways, just for fun, until they reintroduce some form of competitiveness with Club Rugby we are all just having some fun -

actually good question which team would definitely give a kentwell team a good run in all divisions ill start

Sydney Irish I think could give Petersham a run

Only area that Sydney Irish would beat Petersham in is number of Irish people!!

Petersham would win a game between the two by 80+

 

[Crashy]

A lot of the bobs 3rd graders are over 40 with some over 50. Some havent played for years but yes not a bad team. With all 4 teams making the semis its hard to make the claim that 3rds is stacked.

 

[fkj]

I am a long way removed from the inner workings of the club being on the other side of the world!

However the only comment I will make is that the 3rd grade side is made up of former 1st grade players who have come back for this season. That has given the club more depth and allowed 2nd grade to be strong. If 3rd grade win the flag then I could see most of that side pulling the pin on their footy. That would mean the club would need to pull together 2 teams worth of players.

Without knowing how many players would come back next year I think the club might not be in a position to move up.

Bobs have been through this before in 2007. They won the 2 Div club champs and moved up to Div 1. There was a big group of mates who decided to go travelling and that left a big hole.

Going up a division if you are unprepared for it can have a massive negative impact and may not be in the clubs best interest.

Canterbury and Redfield have both won club champs in the last few years and not moved up.

I am not sure how Beecroft would feel about this though. Can subbies force clubs to play in divisions?

Yeah its tough, but at the same time what do you do about clubs who want (or need) to go down to rebuild. In terms of Beecroft, my understanding is that they want to go down, and probably would have gone down this year if offered. Mind you, I'm not sure anyone in Div 2 would be happy about a 7-team comp.

As big as the bridge can be sometimes between divisions, it seems like now more than ever clubs want to find and stay in a division where they can win at least most of the time (including some premierships) year on year, rather than push themselves to go up. I'd argue this year the only club that's making their intent clear about wanting to go up and challenge are Blue Mountains.

There needs to be come serious consideration into rules for different divisions, particularly 1st division. The only club thats gone up and managed to hold their own as an entire club in recent times is Waverley, and we are now even starting to see some of the for Div 1 "stalwarts" like St. Pats eroding a little. Perhaps mountains can buck the trend.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Maybe Penrith could enter into Div 2 to avoid a 7 team comp. It would be interesting to know what they are planning to do.

 

[footy_footy]

It's a very interesting conversation. St Pats last year were hopeless in div 1 now have three teams playing GFs this Saturday. I know the playing group is effectively same, if anything they lost some of their stronger players. Hunters Hill off the top of my head had two teams in the GF last year and were convincing in their run to Div 1. But all indicators are they weren't up to div 1, but I have no doubts they will be near the top of div 2 in 2019. I have nothing but praise for Blue Mountains this year, 5 grades in finals and the top 3 grades in GFs they are deserving of a spot in Kentwell Cup and probably go in with the best season of recent times.

It does remain to be seen how Blue Mountains will compete with the big boys in Div 1. Using St Pats and Hunters Hill as a measuring stick they will probably struggle. Nothing compares to copping a flogging from Mosman across the grades and it will be on the cards next year. If they are to be competitive in Div 1 they will have to get better, do they have it in them, I have no idea. One thing that may assist Blue Mountains in their longevity in Div 1 is that Balmain have been teetering on the edge for a few years and have had fuck all of a colts team for 4 years so are playing a grade short. Same goes for Waverley if they can't sort out their colts problems. Or I could be completely wrong and they follow in the foot steps of Petersham who toughed out some shit years in Div 1 before becoming a powerhouse.

 

[Heavyd]

Maybe Penrith could enter into Div 2 to avoid a 7 team comp. It would be interesting to know what they are planning to do.

If Penrith form next year from ex players it will cause havoc at clubs like HAC and Blue Mountains. The HAC 2nd grade side has roughly 8 guys that started in 1s before the arrival of Emus. Not saying there is anything wrong as it was vital to keep them playing rugby. Just if Penrith are coming back playing ranks at those clubs whom benefited this year will struggle. Think Mountains in div 1

 

[Heavyd]

Yeah its tough, but at the same time what do you do about clubs who want (or need) to go down to rebuild. In terms of Beecroft, my understanding is that they want to go down, and probably would have gone down this year if offered. Mind you, I'm not sure anyone in Div 2 would be happy about a 7-team comp.

As big as the bridge can be sometimes between divisions, it seems like now more than ever clubs want to find and stay in a division where they can win at least most of the time (including some premierships) year on year, rather than push themselves to go up. I'd argue this year the only club that's making their intent clear about wanting to go up and challenge are Blue Mountains.

There needs to be come serious consideration into rules for different divisions, particularly 1st division. The only club thats gone up and managed to hold their own as an entire club in recent times is Waverley, and we are now even starting to see some of the for Div 1 "stalwarts" like St. Pats eroding a little. Perhaps mountains can buck the trend.

Outside of the top two divs it’s about year to year survival for many clubs. Players are retiring early, particularly if they win a premiership and tradies are just reluctant to risk injuries. Long long gone are the days Subbies had leverage with threats of relegation. Much better to Be the master of your own descent rather than face oblivion. Kings Old Boys anyone?

 

[Pfitzy]

The promotion/relegation/add a grade thing is a fucking joke, and until Subbies start to realise it, lower div clubs are going to continue to die.

 

[Funny]

If Penrith form next year from ex players it will cause havoc at clubs like HAC and Blue Mountains. The HAC 2nd grade side has roughly 8 guys that started in 1s before the arrival of Emus. Not saying there is anything wrong as it was vital to keep them playing rugby. Just if Penrith are coming back playing ranks at those clubs whom benefited this year will struggle. Think Mountains in div 1

I don't think the 6 penrith blokes playing for us want to go anywhere next year. As for your your comment that there are 8 blokes playing 2nds who started the year in1st. Maybe check your figures, there's 1 bloke starting in 2nds who started the season in 1st.

I also think mountains only have about the same numbers of penrith blokes

 

[Pfitzy]

The attrition rate for clubs would be an interesting thing to understand - both players leaving your club for another, and players leaving the game.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

The thing is that clubs go in cycles.

You could argue about HAC being in 3rd Div this year. They won the 2nd div 1st grade title last year. However their lower grades struggled in Div 2.

I wonder if we are getting to the point where maybe 1st grade should be graded and then the rest of the club nominates for a division? Using HAC as an example, maybe their 1st grade should be playing against 2nd Div ranked 1st grade sides but the rest of their teams are in 3rd division? Makes logistics tough but just a thought.

There have been plenty of clubs that have a fantastic 1st grade side but the rest of their teams are so so.

If BOBs were pushed up a division next year and the 3rd grade team walk away next year then they could have 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade struggling to compete. What good does that do the club? I am sure the boys would much rather stay in Div 3 and be competitive especially if players leave after any success this year.

I really hope Blueys are competitive in Div 1 next year. As people have said Petersham and Waverley have been able to stay in the top grade for a few years now which is great. As I have said numerous times over the years maybe it is time to promote a few clubs to Div 1. As an example if you pushed Blueys and say Forest up into Div 1 and maybe make HH stay then you will have a few more clubs at a similar level. The problem when promoted is that you go up against clubs that have established teams and that makes life difficult.

It's a very interesting conversation. St Pats last year were hopeless in div 1 now have three teams playing GFs this Saturday. I know the playing group is effectively same, if anything they lost some of their stronger players. Hunters Hill off the top of my head had two teams in the GF last year and were convincing in their run to Div 1. But all indicators are they weren't up to div 1, but I have no doubts they will be near the top of div 2 in 2019. I have nothing but praise for Blue Mountains this year, 5 grades in finals and the top 3 grades in GFs they are deserving of a spot in Kentwell Cup and probably go in with the best season of recent times.

It does remain to be seen how Blue Mountains will compete with the big boys in Div 1. Using St Pats and Hunters Hill as a measuring stick they will probably struggle. Nothing compares to copping a flogging from Mosman across the grades and it will be on the cards next year. If they are to be competitive in Div 1 they will have to get better, do they have it in them, I have no idea. One thing that may assist Blue Mountains in their longevity in Div 1 is that Balmain have been teetering on the edge for a few years and have had fuck all of a colts team for 4 years so are playing a grade short. Same goes for Waverley if they can't sort out their colts problems. Or I could be completely wrong and they follow in the foot steps of Petersham who toughed out some shit years in Div 1 before becoming a powerhouse.

 

[Cranky Penguin]

If Penrith form next year from ex players it will cause havoc at clubs like HAC and Blue Mountains. The HAC 2nd grade side has roughly 8 guys that started in 1s before the arrival of Emus. Not saying there is anything wrong as it was vital to keep them playing rugby. Just if Penrith are coming back playing ranks at those clubs whom benefited this year will struggle. Think Mountains in div 1

Blue Mountains will have no issue if the Emus come back Heavyd. Go and have a look at our team sheets and see that we only really gave a couple of Emus lower graders a run this year. We have over 150 registered players and we have already begun the player retention and recruitment drive for 2019. Emus or not it won’t impact us at all.


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[Pfitzy]

I wonder if we are getting to the point where maybe 1st grade should be graded and then the rest of the club nominates for a division?

I think we're closer to a point where Subbies have to look at locking down more regional suburban divisions, and allowing clubs to grade in the appropriate zone. Solves the travel issue, solves the competitiveness issue.

Its just an administrative pain in the arse to get going.

 

[thetraitor]

DIV 2 Grand Finals

2nd Grade

Blue Mountains v Forest- Again Blue Mountains the most dominant team all year and hard to see this being any different. Forest will likely be without their best player ho was Red Carded in the 1st Grade Preliminary Final and don't think they will have others that are able to come down to fill the void.

I hear Forest replacement #12 was cleared last night so he will play in the 2nd grade GF this weekend. Video showed his tackle was hard but legal. Should not have been a red. Mountains hooker not so lucky after he blue carded Forest starting #12. He'll be a spectator this weekend which is a big loss for Mountains as he is one of their best players and would have been handy against Pat's big boys.

Makes you wonder what the 1st grade result would have been if the Forest player wasn't wrongly sent off with 30 minutes to go and they'd kept their 15-14 man advantage. Forest were ahead at that point. They scored 4 tries to Mountains 2.

But that's rugby.

My call is Mountains to beat Pat's on Saturday even without their hooker. Their excellent winger to find form again and carve up Pat's and Danny Kroll to kick them to victory.

 

[Cranky Penguin]

For the record the Blue Mountains Number 8 has a laceration in his mouth and had headaches and a sore neck till Wednesday. How it was reported that the tackle wasn’t high is beyond me. There was clear, hard contact to the head when the player was upright. He is is about 6ft 4inchs tall. The Forest player launched upwards. Red card was the correct call at the time I feel.... but no one should miss a grand final!!! A whole years hard work shouldn’t be taken away for a moment of madness. I have no issue that he is allowed to play. Let the best team win.



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[The Real Big Bopper]

Was there video evidence used to exonerate the Forest 12? And possibly against the Blueys front rower? That will create a whole new fued....



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[Heavyd]

Drummoyne kicked out of 3rd grade semis for 3 red cards. Mosman get the week off and straight into the semis.

 

[Sydney Rugby Fan]

I don't want to ref bash, but sometimes I think once they give a red, they start giving the cards out because they've set a precedent.

The red to burra was for repeated infringements.

Burra are gonna write a letter to try to get our guy off, we're not much chance without him.

Hey Nath - how did your guy go at the judiciary the other night? Did the letter from Burra help?