Sydney Subbies 2015

[Heavyd]

Congrats to the Redfield boys for their minor premiership in First Grade and Club Championship. There is an odd symmetry to the tables there:

First Grade: Redfield = 1st
Second grade: Redfield = 2nd
Third Grade: Redfield = 3rd

Fourth Grade break the pattern, missing out in 5th spot. Still, massive effort to go up a division and still make finals. Well done.

so does that mean they have to go up?

 

[Heavyd]

Further to this point, I reckon next year it'll look something like this, for stability's sake if nothing else:

Div 1 (8): Colleagues, Mosman, Drummoyne, Balmain, St Pats, Knox, Shammies, Brothers

Div 2 (10): Iggies, Lindfield, Forest, Hills, Barker, Newport, Hunters Hill, Blue Mountains, UNSW, Waverley

Div 3 (8): Redfield, UWSH, Epping, Oatley, SnIves, KOBs, Beecroft, Hawkesbury

Div 4 (8): Canterbury, Harlequins, Blacktown, Irish, Briars, Rouse Hill, Mac Uni, Convicts/Merrylands

Division 5 has to be re-established some how with Convicts or Merrylands (maybe both) dropping and some teams coming up from each conference.

Problem with this is KOBS and Hawkesbury valley may be best placed so consolidation in a lower Div is on the cards. Same goes for Comvicts, Mac Uni and now Merrylands is all but gone. Same problem. Too many grades, not enough players.

 

[Pfitzy]

so does that mean they have to go up?

I think Redfield would be well within their rights to stay right where they are - easy argument to show cause why they don't need to try and find another 20 players and start the day an hour earlier. They've only just made it into 3rd Div and the idea behind automatic promotion is probably that you're not meant to win things first time out

 

[Prodigy]

I think Redfield would be well within their rights to stay right where they are - easy argument to show cause why they don't need to try and find another 20 players and start the day an hour earlier. They've only just made it into 3rd Div and the idea behind automatic promotion is probably that you're not meant to win things first time out

I think that they will stay in div 3 due to the need for colts in div 2. Waverley are well placed to go up and ambitious. Not suggesting that Redfield aren't though.


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[Sideline]

I think that they will stay in div 3 due to the need for colts in div 2. Waverley are well placed to go up and ambitious. Not suggesting that Redfield aren't though.


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I also suspect Redfield will stay in Div 3 and Waverley go up. Great effort from Redfield and a good year for Epping as well. Redfield should be able to start to build a Colts side from the school team, but it will take 2-3 years.

Good results also for Hills in Div 2.

3 Teams in semis and the other 2 in equal 4th spot missing the semi's on for and against. Overall a close 3rd in Div 2 CC so the club should be pleased with their first year up in a higher division.

 

[Heavyd]

I think that they will stay in div 3 due to the need for colts in div 2. Waverley are well placed to go up and ambitious. Not suggesting that Redfield aren't though.


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I see Iggies have again forefeited 3rds and 4th and got done by 60 in 2nd grade. There might not be anywhere for Waverley or Redfield to go up to.

Congrats to Hills on a good 1st year up in DIV 2. They are clearly the strongest in overall player numbers by a country mile over some of the ageing legacy DIv 2 clubs

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

Congrats to the Redfield boys for their minor premiership in First Grade and Club Championship. There is an odd symmetry to the tables there:

First Grade: Redfield = 1st
Second grade: Redfield = 2nd
Third Grade: Redfield = 3rd

Fourth Grade break the pattern, missing out in 5th spot. Still, massive effort to go up a division and still make finals. Well done.

Cheers Pfitzy. Been a good albeit highly disjointed year to date with all the washouts and double points. Our committee are pondering the move up but I think it will be likely that we will remain where we are. Always been of the view that if we were to move up too quickly we'd slide back even sooner.

Waverley are well placed to move up. They've got a great club, plenty of player numbers and fantastic facilities out there.

Finally, never been a fan of having a colts team. While we would have no trouble filling one within our current playing group, it segregates players based on their age first rather than who they want to play with or their ability. A large part of our success has been getting a good mix across grades of talent and letting guys play with their mates which builds commitment.

 

[Pfitzy]

Congrats to Hills on a good 1st year up in DIV 2. They are clearly the strongest in overall player numbers by a country mile over some of the ageing legacy DIv 2 clubs

I have plans to steal some of their numbers

Finally, never been a fan of having a colts team. While we would have no trouble filling one within our current playing group, it segregates players based on their age first rather than who they want to play with or their ability. A large part of our success has been getting a good mix across grades of talent and letting guys play with their mates which builds commitment.

On the other hand, if the competition was (sensibly) limited to 3 Grades + Colts + Masters at Div 2 and 3 level, that would make a lot of sense.

Then, if you've got mates who don't qualify for Colts, chances are you can still play with them.

 

[Peej]

It's been very disappointing at Iggies this year after a relatively promising start numbers have just dropped and not come back. Having watched most of their 1st grade games they have a reasonable group of players (mostly the forwards) with a few not up to it and no impact guys that you need to compete with the big teams.

Personally i think the whole of subbies needs to be re designed in a way because for example Iggies 1st and 2nd grade are not Div 1 standard but most yrs their 3rd, 4th and 5th manage to make finals and the colts are top 2 every year. Do teams need to be put into their own levels? I do understand this would take away from some atmosphere and action on the day.

 

[fkj]

I have plans to steal some of their numbers






On the other hand, if the competition was (sensibly) limited to 3 Grades + Colts + Masters at Div 2 and 3 level, that would make a lot of sense.

Then, if you've got mates who don't qualify for Colts, chances are you can still play with them.

Or you could just build your own club up and make people want to come???

 

[Seagull Butler]

Do teams need to be put into their own levels? I do understand this would take away from some atmosphere and action on the day.

This would see an increase in forfeits in fourths (or lowest team) for some clubs who have players playing several grades in one day. How many 2nd Div clubs could really provide a fresh bench for five grades? Especially after injuries have taken their toll at the end of the year.

Also after previously playing in a club/comp where colts only played with the grades every second week, the English model (i.e grades at different grounds) just didn't help build a good club atmosphere.

 

[Pfitzy]

Or you could just build your own club up and make people want to come???

That's what I said!

 

[Heavyd]

I have plans to steal some of their numbers






On the other hand, if the competition was (sensibly) limited to 3 Grades + Colts + Masters at Div 2 and 3 level, that would make a lot of sense.

Then, if you've got mates who don't qualify for Colts, chances are you can still play with them.

Subbies could stop the rot in a lot of clubs Tommy if they opted for your suggestion above. Isn't the head of Subbies from blue Mountains? He would know first hand how hard it is to field a 4 grades and a colts.

 

[Pfitzy]

The power of Subbies isn't in the board, its in the east.

 

[boyo]

I have plans to steal some of their numbers

 

[Heavyd]

DIV 2
Teams in Semis
Newport 4
Forest 3
Hills 3
Hunters 3
Lind 3
UNSW 2
BOBs 1
Mountains 1

History says those with multiple teams in semi's struggle as they are stretched to thin when coming up against stacked sides.

Ossie Bob, what happened to BOBS after such a promising start? I think they are a real chance to take out the Barraclough but dissapointting not to see them in any other grade.

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

Subbies could stop the rot in a lot of clubs Tommy if they opted for your suggestion above. Isn't the head of Subbies from blue Mountains? He would know first hand how hard it is to field a 4 grades and a colts.

I understand the predicament Subbies are in but clearly the structure of the competition across all divisions is just too rigid and is having a negative impact on the way in which each competition performs. Far more time should be spent on helping clubs with their management issues - how can they get better facilities, how can clubs attract players, how can they get more sponsorship and how can they plan for the future. For example, why are clubs like Beecroft, Redfield or Epping encouraged to open a dialogue with recently folded outfits like Dundas or Oakhill.

 

[barbarian]

I think mergers are going to become more commonplace in Subbies over the next few years.

It's clear that we no longer have the player base to justify so many different clubs.
.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think its partly that barb, but there is a lot of issue around shifting demographics in some areas.

We're in the biggest growth corridor in Sydney, and the South West is another, but both are league heartlands. There are a few non-government schools around, but often they have links to other organisations (maybe Tommy knows how many of his lads are ex-Redfield or Oakhill or William Clarke) but even then a lot of those numbers will align to where their mates are playing, even if they didn't go to a rugby program school.

In the next few years we'll be looking to field a Colts side to help feed our seniors ongoing, and we need to get talking to the schools to do that.

Another issue we've got is the Islander contingent are often recruited by word of mouth or on family lines, and can be fickle. Our culture is pretty good right now and we hope to retain a lot of them. We're also going with stricter policies on train = play next year, and will stick to that (I'm assured by the head coach).

We've also got a problem with the perception of the club as "Islander" despite having several talented players of paler hue. But you compare our team sheet to e.g. Hills, and its a world away in terms of

Far more time should be spent on helping clubs with their management issues - how can they get better facilities,

This is the biggest issue for me. When you're a new club at the whim of Council (us) or School (Redfield) operators, its tough compared to some clubs who have their own ground and have say over whether they play or not.

You've seen our ground - its a dump. (slang used by low IQ schoolboys) heads sticking out, goal posts right up against a creek at one end, and leaning perilously at the other. Lose hundreds in $$$ on match balls per year, and only have access to half the changing sheds because fucking soccer.

The Council mows it dead flat, which kills the grass and hardens the soil every winter - yet by late spring its beautifully lush and has a couple of inches of

I'd love to win lotto to buy the club our own facilities, NOT at the whim of council. I could also become groundskeeper while we're at it as my "job"

 

[boyo]

You've seen our ground - its a dump. (slang used by low IQ schoolboys) heads sticking out, goal posts right up against a creek at one end, and leaning perilously at the other. Lose hundreds in $$$ on match balls per year, and only have access to half the changing sheds because fucking soccer.

The Council mows it dead flat, which kills the grass and hardens the soil every winter - yet by late spring its beautifully lush and has a couple of inches of

I'd love to win lotto to buy the club our own facilities, NOT at the whim of council. I could also become groundskeeper while we're at it as my "job"