Sydney Subbies 2014
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Rugby Central
Charlie Fox (21)
I like it but it does create it's own problems. Most colts are in the unskilled worker category relying on the hospitality industry. Saturday nights is when they're most needed to be at work by 5pm at the latest. Pretty hard to get cleaned up and wherever they need to go and ready to start. I know a club that not only burned their lower grade players with the time changes a few years ago but they ended up losing a number of Colts as well.
I agree damned if you do and damned if you don't. I feel the thinking needs to.....Yep, the dirty c-word..... "change".
Heavyd
Arch Winning (36)
What do we know half way through the season.
Div1 - St Pats are the dominant force looking strong across the grades, Petersham appear to have handled the move from 2nd Div well but a clear gap has developed between the compe and Campbelltwon and Beecroft. Kentwell Cup Tip - St Pats
Div 2 - A resurgent Newport and storng UNSW dominant most grades.
Hunters Hill struggled early in their transition to Div 2 but appear to have steadied the ship and will come home strong fighting to avoid relegation for the 2nd year running. Biggest dissappointment has to be Forest who appear not to have nutured younger talent and have been hit by retirement. Barraclough Cup tip Newport
Div 3 - Hills look ready for 2nd Div. KOBs have struggled with relegation but appear safe with other previously relegated Hornsby and Briars fighting for survival. Clark Cup tip Hills
Lower Divs I cannot really comment on but some exciting signs out of Redfield Old boys
Div1 - St Pats are the dominant force looking strong across the grades, Petersham appear to have handled the move from 2nd Div well but a clear gap has developed between the compe and Campbelltwon and Beecroft. Kentwell Cup Tip - St Pats
Div 2 - A resurgent Newport and storng UNSW dominant most grades.
Hunters Hill struggled early in their transition to Div 2 but appear to have steadied the ship and will come home strong fighting to avoid relegation for the 2nd year running. Biggest dissappointment has to be Forest who appear not to have nutured younger talent and have been hit by retirement. Barraclough Cup tip Newport
Div 3 - Hills look ready for 2nd Div. KOBs have struggled with relegation but appear safe with other previously relegated Hornsby and Briars fighting for survival. Clark Cup tip Hills
Lower Divs I cannot really comment on but some exciting signs out of Redfield Old boys
Ozzie Bob
Charlie Fox (21)
I can only really comment on Div 2 but i will give it a stab. Newport have done a great job to turn the club around. Full credit to them. I think it will be a Newport Brothers final in 1st grade.
The fact that relegation will involve 2 clubs this year is huge. At the moment it is Hunters and St Ives in those places. I dont think either of them will go down. I think it will be Blueys and Oatley.
Forest are a funny one, bought in 3 big recruits and it was mentioned in local papers. Got beaten in 1st grade by Hunters Hill on the weekend they could end up in the mix for relegation.
My club Bob's have impressed me this year. 1st grade have lost away game to the top 3 clubs by less than 7 points in each of those games. Will we beat them at home??? 1st grade in 5th place but it would be a great achievement to make the finals after only winning 2 games last year. 2nd's, Colts and 4's should make the finals so the club is looking healthy again.
Tommy Tudehope
Ted Fahey (11)
Nice summation.
What has been the key to the turnaround for Newport? Good to see them back in the mix again.
Ozzie Bob
Charlie Fox (21)
Newport's success has been built around their colts team. Won the title 2 years in a row (12, 13) and now most of them are playing 1st grade. I think this is a most important point to make. BOB's have a constant influx from colts which saves the club after the older blokes call it quits.
You only have to look at the effort that Brothers in Div 2 are going to with their colts to see how important it is to clubs.
I will say with interest that it is great to see Lane Cove (Div 6) have a colts team this year. They were in div 3 with 4 teams not that long ago so it is good to see them rebuilding through youth. It is a tough road when it comes to playing young blokes in grade, but if they stick around the club is rewarded.
Heavyd
Arch Winning (36)
Big call Ozzie Bob with Oately and Blue Mountains to be relegated. Its a long way back for clubs like Saints to claw back 300 or 400 points. I had heard Mountains arent enjoying the 2nd Div travels so maybe they may lose momentum and drift lower as the season, away games and injuries take there toll.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Lane Cove were last in Division 3 around 2005/6 I believe. They've always had decent juniors but changing demographics on the lower north shore means there are too many clubs in a very small space. Killara-West Pymble went down the gurgler a while ago and someone else plays at their ground now.
Whale berry
Larry Dwyer (12)
I noticed in the results that the 3rd grade and 4 the grade results Beecroft vs Pats were both 0-28 to Pats.
Did they both happen to be four try defeats or did Beecroft forfeit both?
Did they both happen to be four try defeats or did Beecroft forfeit both?
Prodigy
Ron Walden (29)
My info is that st pats knew well in advance that beecroft would only be playing 1s, 2s and colts. Not sure what has happened there....
Tommy Tudehope
Ted Fahey (11)
That's a worry. If I recall correctly, didn't Beecroft suffer a similar decline last year with a horrible injury toll?
Rugby Central
Charlie Fox (21)
It's just that time of year for many Clubs. There's a couple of clubs I've spoken to who's teams are doing well and just hope to stay in touch over the next few weeks through injuries and uni holiday's and just plain lack of enthusiasm.
As for the Forest conundrum, that has been a turn up. Rumour has it Club management has gone as far as begging players not to leave. Don't know the truth of it but it's a sad story for a strong club if even partly true.
Heavyd
Arch Winning (36)
It's just that time of year for many Clubs. There's a couple of clubs I've spoken to who's teams are doing well and just hope to stay in touch over the next few weeks through injuries and uni holiday's and just plain lack of enthusiasm.
As for the Forest conundrum, that has been a turn up. Rumour has it Club management has gone as far as begging players not to leave. Don't know the truth of it but it's a sad story for a strong club if even partly true.[/quote]
I think to dismiss it as that time of year is being a little too forgiving. Fielding only 2 grades + colts with scores ins 1s and 2s of 81-7 & 58-0 suggest the club is in touble..big trouble. Hopefully they can hold it together till seasons end. My tip is subbies will have an 18 team comp next year with Campbelltown and Mountains dropping out. Theyll put remaining Div 1 & Div 2 clubs together for a 4 grades +colts comp with each team plays each other once.
In relation to Forest I have heard the same thing. Looking at their upcoming 4 or 5 games I cannot see it getting any rosier for them either.
Rumour is the player transfer market is picking up with some clubs getting the cheque book out as some 2nd Div clubs attempt to poach players to avoid relegation.
As for the Forest conundrum, that has been a turn up. Rumour has it Club management has gone as far as begging players not to leave. Don't know the truth of it but it's a sad story for a strong club if even partly true.[/quote]
I think to dismiss it as that time of year is being a little too forgiving. Fielding only 2 grades + colts with scores ins 1s and 2s of 81-7 & 58-0 suggest the club is in touble..big trouble. Hopefully they can hold it together till seasons end. My tip is subbies will have an 18 team comp next year with Campbelltown and Mountains dropping out. Theyll put remaining Div 1 & Div 2 clubs together for a 4 grades +colts comp with each team plays each other once.
In relation to Forest I have heard the same thing. Looking at their upcoming 4 or 5 games I cannot see it getting any rosier for them either.
Rumour is the player transfer market is picking up with some clubs getting the cheque book out as some 2nd Div clubs attempt to poach players to avoid relegation.
Rugby Central
Charlie Fox (21)
May as well spend the money while they can. Idiots!?!?!?!
I think this year has shown the structure could be thrown into complete disarray for next year. Paying money for anyhting could be an abject exercise in futility.
Clubs like Redfield could jump straight to Div 2, while Beecroft heads to Div 3. Hell, it could all come crumbling further with a couple of the Div 1 Clubs saying "stuff it we'll go down" and it can be an 8 team comp for Div 1 as well. Of course the strife that would cause down the food chain is vast and unpredictable.
But what I can see is Subbies Rugby falling apart through neglect. Not entirely their fault when they too are ignored by the powers higher up.
Heavyd
Arch Winning (36)
I don’t subscribe to the total doom and gloom scenario but certainly rugby playing numbers are not what they used to be. It can recovered but will take leadership and flexibility from all levels of rugby. At subbies level clubs need to be open with the administrators and drop this false bravado which seems culturally engrained in admitting any sign of weakness. In return subbies need to listen and be prepared to adapt competitions on what clubs tell them. I see club amalgamations as one answer with still too many clubs on the North Shore. And as discussed on this site many times geographical competitions outside of DIV1 could be a solution.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Can't please all the people all the time. And when the big clubs are telling you everything is going along swimmingly, what do you do? Each one of them is worth 2 x 4th Division clubs at least in pure $$$ terms.
Success breeds success and a system where you have to add a team because you're successful just does not work. Similarly, you only have to stay in Division 1 by beating the new boy, so you're under little threat of dropping.
And I say if they want to pay players, then open up promotion and relegation with Premier Rugby. Penrith and Parra/Gordon will probably come down and then we'll see if the Drummoynes of this world are serious about their challenge.
I like this idea of an 18 team comp but think it should be strictly 3 grades, in order to give more clubs an opportunity to get into that rarefied air. There should be a Masters comp for the spillover with an extended bench variation to the Laws to allow more players in on a given week.
Colts should be U20 and an entirely separate competition points-wise - have geographical zones if it helps. No more U19/21 so we're aligned nationally.
Looks like a case of too fucking bad if you're in Western Sydney based on the Blue Mountains and Campbelltown are anything to go by (its worth noting that Camden play IDRU so maybe C'Town are just better off). A separate Western Sydney rugby comp might just need to be created with two grades, even if some clubs have to put in two competitors.
Whale berry
Larry Dwyer (12)
In relation to Forest I have heard the same thing. Looking at their upcoming 4 or 5 games I cannot see it getting any rosier for them either.
What's the story with Forrest, I have missed the news on them?
What's the story with Forrest, I have missed the news on them?
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I work with someone deep inside the Campbelltown setup (Let's call him Mr X). To lay some rumours to rest:
1) At the start of the year, a motion was raised to move to IDRU, and defeated.
2) They were told to run all grades or else, and they took "or else". Other clubs also took that route, but paid the fees to Subbies in order to just be listed as forfeit instead of having championship points taken off them.
3) Previously, when told to run 5th Grade or else, they picked up the disbanded Liverpool players from the year before. This gave Tim Richards the shits because Liverpool had some disciplinary issues apparently.
4) Ultimately they've had a shit year with injuries and internal politics to the point of firing multiple coaches, and now they're trying to pull it back out of the fire. Cultural change coming.
There appears to be no doubt that they'll be relegated, even with Beecroft's poor showing to date.
Mr X suggested that First Division should be for clubs who want to spend all the money on players in their little dick-swinging competition while the rest of the clubs got on with being clubs.
When I suggested promotion/relegation with Premier Rugby, Mr X said that Premier Rugby don't want any more east/north clubs, and would rather have a more competitive, properly SYDNEY-WIDE competition i.e. with more Western Sydney clubs. They don't want Drummoyne, for example, with West Harbour just up the street.
Mr X also said that there is more money floating around in Subbies than there is in Premier Rugby at the moment but unless the north shore in particular reorganised itself, clubs were going to be put under a lot of pressure.
We know that Parramatta and Penrith are perennial strugglers, but look at Gordon - they are coming apart at the seams results-wise, and they're really crowded in by other clubs.
Mr X is a big fan of the 3 Grade maximum, and uncoupling the Championship system from Colts.
1) At the start of the year, a motion was raised to move to IDRU, and defeated.
2) They were told to run all grades or else, and they took "or else". Other clubs also took that route, but paid the fees to Subbies in order to just be listed as forfeit instead of having championship points taken off them.
3) Previously, when told to run 5th Grade or else, they picked up the disbanded Liverpool players from the year before. This gave Tim Richards the shits because Liverpool had some disciplinary issues apparently.
4) Ultimately they've had a shit year with injuries and internal politics to the point of firing multiple coaches, and now they're trying to pull it back out of the fire. Cultural change coming.
There appears to be no doubt that they'll be relegated, even with Beecroft's poor showing to date.
Mr X suggested that First Division should be for clubs who want to spend all the money on players in their little dick-swinging competition while the rest of the clubs got on with being clubs.
When I suggested promotion/relegation with Premier Rugby, Mr X said that Premier Rugby don't want any more east/north clubs, and would rather have a more competitive, properly SYDNEY-WIDE competition i.e. with more Western Sydney clubs. They don't want Drummoyne, for example, with West Harbour just up the street.
Mr X also said that there is more money floating around in Subbies than there is in Premier Rugby at the moment but unless the north shore in particular reorganised itself, clubs were going to be put under a lot of pressure.
We know that Parramatta and Penrith are perennial strugglers, but look at Gordon - they are coming apart at the seams results-wise, and they're really crowded in by other clubs.
Mr X is a big fan of the 3 Grade maximum, and uncoupling the Championship system from Colts.
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