Sydney Subbies 2014

[Heavyd]

The rugby geography is definately something that needs to be looked at and not only at subbies level. I like many of my friends are reviewing my sons involvement in junior rugby based on the travel. The travel stretches from the tip of the northern beaches to the southern districts, Dural and the Blue Mountains. Its along way to go on a Sunday for an under 10s game in Sydney gridlock when there are 6 or 7 clubs within 10kms.

 

[Whale berry]

I think everyone agrees there should be more regionalisation, the main areas of debate is where you draw the line vs playing on merit regardless of location.
Div5, Div4, Div3, Div 2 or Div1.
The second area of discussion is how many grades each club/div should/could have.

I still think subbies should have an aspirational competition like Div 1 as long as there are teams that want to play in it, if there are enough teams Div 2 can be aspirational as well, if not then regionalise.

I think what subbies management (and maybe some supporters) need to realise is that there are clubs that have the 5 grades and want to play at the highest level, just as there are clubs with two or three grades who want to play locally. No one club is better than the other just different.

 

[Heavyd]

I acknowledge everything you are saying. The issue is that there currently are not enough top tier clubs to fill DIV 1. I understand mosman dont pay players but others do and will contiune to do so and that discourages DIV 2 clubs who are purely amateur from wanting to play teams that are semi professional.

 

[Cactus Jack]

I'm really not sure that Campbelltown will be accepted back into the Illawarra competition as readily as you all seem to think. Campbelltown put in a request at the beginning of this season to compete in the Illawarra comp and were accepted. I'm led to believe it came down to an 11th hour club vote that kept the Quins in Subbies. But word from the Gong is that this decision has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth of the Illawarra RU.

 

[Heavyd]

My original comment was any truth to the rumour. Sounds like the rumour may have had some legs though.

 

[Whale berry]

I acknowledge everything you are saying. The issue is that there currently are not enough top tier clubs to fill DIV 1. I understand mosman dont pay players but others do and will contiune to do so and that discourages DIV 2 clubs who are purely amateur from wanting to play teams that are semi professional.

Maybe the wheel turns the full circle and NSWRU reintroduces 2nd Div kicks the semi pro clubs up from subbies and drop down the strugglers in Shute Shield, have promotion/relegation so there is a pathway (hate that word) up or down.

 

[Whale berry]

I'm really not sure that Campbelltown will be accepted back into the Illawarra competition as readily as you all seem to think. Campbelltown put in a request at the beginning of this season to compete in the Illawarra comp and were accepted. I'm led to believe it came down to an 11th hour club vote that kept the Quins in Subbies. But word from the Gong is that this decision has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth of the Illawarra RU.

Interesting comment, if they stay in subbies you would have to think they will drop down a few Divisions though.
As was posted previously they are in a terrible spot, geography wise.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think what subbies management (and maybe some supporters) need to realise is that there are clubs that have the 5 grades and want to play at the highest level, just as there are clubs with two or three grades who want to play locally. No one club is better than the other just different.

I think the East/North areas I highlighted above feature several clubs that would happily play a dedicated 4-Grade competition, with 5th Grade being Masters rugby purely as social rugby. This is Division 1.

The other clubs probably benefit from having 3 grades maximum - split into regional competitions with 1 or 2 Divisions depending on numbers, and challenge matches.

Colts to play Sydney-wide as discussed.

The problem is always the lowest grade in any club - particularly if you've only got two grades and someone has to miss out on game time, they're going to be less inclined to turn up next week. Particularly if the coach is bloody-minded.

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

I think the East/North areas I highlighted above feature several clubs that would happily play a dedicated 4-Grade competition, with 5th Grade being Masters rugby purely as social rugby. This is Division 1.

The other clubs probably benefit from having 3 grades maximum - split into regional competitions with 1 or 2 Divisions depending on numbers, and challenge matches.

Colts to play Sydney-wide as discussed.

The problem is always the lowest grade in any club - particularly if you've only got two grades and someone has to miss out on game time, they're going to be less inclined to turn up next week. Particularly if the coach is bloody-minded.

I recall Subbies did a survey the season before last. Would be interesting to see how the results from that stack up against some the views canvassed here.

 

[barbarian]

Colts to play Sydney-wide as discussed.

Don't like this, but it is becoming a necessary evil.

It is a thousand times better to have the Colts playing at the same ground as the other grades. Otherwise they develop no affinity to the club, and will be less likely to stay past the age of 21.

We dropped our colts this year though, partly due to lack of numbers but also due to wanting to incorporate them into grades rather than have them play all over Sydney away from the rest of the club. It is also a very high-maintenance grade.
..

 

[Pfitzy]

I recall Subbies did a survey the season before last. Would be interesting to see how the results from that stack up against some the views canvassed here.

I'd be prepared to put money on top Divisions generally having a different opinion to lower Divisions.

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

Don't like this, but it is becoming a necessary evil.

It is a thousand times better to have the Colts playing at the same ground as the other grades. Otherwise they develop no affinity to the club, and will be less likely to stay past the age of 21.

We dropped our colts this year though, partly due to lack of numbers but also due to wanting to incorporate them into grades rather than have them play all over Sydney away from the rest of the club. It is also a very high-maintenance grade.
..

That's the same strategy we employ at ROBR. Although a lot of our players are of Colts age it is much better having everyone in the same place playing together.

 

[Pfitzy]

Is Colts still U21 or U20 now as per International competition?

 

[barbarian]

21s

 

[Pfitzy]

Same in Premier Rugby?

Because what's the point of having age rugby at U20 internationally but U21 for domestic?

 

[Heavyd]

Grade colts is under 20. We get guys come back after theyve had a couple years of fun at grade colts and dont want to pthen play grade and have one more year at subbies colts.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think they should align everything to U20, and scrap any U19 comps that are still running.

Not like there is enough junior rugby outside schools to make all these different comps.

 

[Whale berry]

Grade colts is under 20. We get guys come back after theyve had a couple years of fun at grade colts and dont want to pthen play grade and have one more year at subbies colts.

ditto on this one.
Also as most people would know Div 1 and Div 2 colts are played in between 2nd and 3rd grade.
On one hand it is a pain as it pushes 5th grade back to the breakfast timeslot and makes it hard for the guys from threes standing by for twos.
However as way of including colts as part of the club over all it is invaluable.
Again, I think everyone agrees, that strong colts are the future it is more beneficial than not.

 

[Whale berry]

Don't quite understand why subbies is U/21 and grade is U/20.
Didn't have a problem with I think a couple of years ago, 3rd grade colts in grade was U/19.
Thinking of my skinny 18yo son coming out of school and going into colts against hardened 20/21 year olds

 

[Fly]

ditto on this one.
Also as most people would know Div 1 and Div 2 colts are played in between 2nd and 3rd grade.
On one hand it is a pain as it pushes 5th grade back to the breakfast timeslot and makes it hard for the guys from threes standing by for twos.
However as way of including colts as part of the club over all it is invaluable.
Again, I think everyone agrees, that strong colts are the future it is more beneficial than not.

I had an epiphany about Colts last year.
As mentioned, in D1/2 they play in the middle of the day - which is supposed to incorporate them into the Club more. It actually works - or does for us anyway.
But what about this..... Play Colts last.
- Don't have to worry about Colties rocking up still hungover from the student bash the night before.
- Won't be a hassle on the 3's who now have to wait for an entire 80 min Colt game to back up for 2's.
- AND, as a 1st Grader, how often can you come off after your game, get cleaned up - AND ACTUALLY SIT DOWN AND CHILL WITH A BEER AND WATCH A GAME OF YOUR OWN CLUB?

Its a win/win for everyone.
Colts feel special playing at the end of the day in front of everyone.
They are not still hungover.
More continuity for the grades and more guys able and willing to back up.
1's actually get to watch a game and have a beer on the sidelines.