Sydney Colts - 2017

[I like to watch]

It's really easy.
A club is limited to signing say 10 State Schoolboy reps of colts age.
Doesn't matter what grade they play.
A club shouldn't have more state schoolboy reps than under 10 juniors

 

[The Honey Badger]

It's really easy.
A club is limited to signing say 10 State Schoolboy reps of colts age.
Doesn't matter what grade they play.
A club shouldn't have more state schoolboy reps than under 10 juniors

Club should be limited to 5 state rep signings each year

My guess is there would only be about 55 each year (2 X state teams of 23 and say 8 or 9 NSW boys in Combined states squad), some of these boys will play interstate or overseas, or may even hang up the boots, and you want them to be distributed around the 12 clubs

 

[sidelineview]

You make some good points but other factors come into it, dont they?

Like players wanting to play for a local Club and not choosing to travel; tertiary education and employment opportunities on offer ...

You don't want to see promising young rugby players being turned away from the game, only to see them choose to play league.

As I said, I'm only new to this discussion but it will be interesting to see what Colts players each Club ends up with, and in relation to player points.

It will be interesting to see the disparity in playing rosters between each Club.
You blokes have already seen it in the past re the haves and have nots.

I'm only assuming that each Club wont have too much trouble getting 40 points worth of 1sts players onto the field for the early rounds, but may not have the quality players to cover injuries in a long season; and may not have the strong reserve bench compared to other teams.

Whether it be a restriction of 5 or 10 State players per Club or any other number, ''homegrown'' players shouldn't be included in that number. It then becomes an incentive and reward for Clubs to develop their own players.

Then again, the definition of ''homegrown'' becomes debatable as well....

 

[Dave Beat]

You make some good points but other factors come into it, dont they?

1. Like players wanting to play for a local Club and not choosing to travel; tertiary education and employment opportunities on offer .
2. You don't want to see promising young rugby players being turned away from the game, only to see them choose to play league.
3. Whether it be a restriction of 5 or 10 State players per Club or any other number, ''homegrown'' players shouldn't be included in that number. It then becomes an incentive and reward for Clubs to develop their own players.

Then again, the definition of ''homegrown'' becomes debatable as well..

1. True, and playing with mates as well. In regrds to Tertiary Education - if NSWRU took an interest in overall development and uni scholarships is that possible, could that help. Travel, I believe there are some kids traveling along way rom their local club, i wonder way.
2. No we dont, i believe the league market could have players flowing our way if we lift our game.
3. I'd love to see clubs retaining players they've played a role in developing - having them go walk about because of scholarship offerings is hard to compete with.

 

[sidelineview]

Clubs that have ''arrangements'' with Unis:

Sydney Uni and Randwick with UNSW.

What about the other Clubs?

 

[the coach]

Has any code or sport in any country come up with a points / salary cap system that (1) evenly spreads the talent and (2) the participants don't spend all their time trying to find and exploit the loopholes or (3) just blatently try to find ways to break the rules without getting caught?

 

[sidelineview]

Has any code or sport in any country come up with a points / salary cap system that (1) evenly spreads the talent and (2) the participants don't spend all their time trying to find and exploit the loopholes or (3) just blatently try to find ways to break the rules without getting caught?

No, human nature is what it is. It's just that some can be harder to rort than others.

 

[Done that]

Has any code or sport in any country come up with a points / salary cap system that (1) evenly spreads the talent and (2) the participants don't spend all their time trying to find and exploit the loopholes or (3) just blatently try to find ways to break the rules without getting caught?

I don't know the answer to your questions, but what should be asked is ,can the SRU do a significantly better job than they are currently doing ,to minimise/stop the effects of this cancer that is contributing to the slow death of club Rugby in Sydney?

 

[sidelineview]

I can't imagine it's in the Waratahs long term interest to have the current "identified" crop of U20's Sydney based talent concentrated in very few clubs. I'm not sure what their involvement is in spreading the love but maybe their greater involvement would help?

Definitely. It seems strong proactive leadership and vision is missing right across the board with grassroots rugby, including school rugby.

All clubs, for example should have an affiliation with a tertiary institution and also have an affiliation with local schools.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Clubs that have ''arrangements'' with Unis:

Sydney Uni and Randwick with UNSW.

What about the other Clubs?

Manly - Macquarie

 

[the baz]

We say that players want to play for their junior club, play with their mates etc.. and thats why some clubs are in need of additional points, new rules etc.rubbish.. the players are going to clubs because of what they are offered, cash, accomodation, uni fees paid, free rent, and im some cases cars. Its crazy. Most clubs have a limit to what they can offer, wheres others have a deep well. I don't know how u change it. . Financial cap? But whilst we have clubs with deep pockets there will always be a disparity and a wamt to.out there club before the benefit of the whole competition

 

[Shadow]

Manly - Macquarie

Southern Districts and University of Wollongong.

 

[Shadow]

I don't believe that arrangement had any scholarship component to it..

It is scholarships

 

[Blazing Saddles]

I don't know the answer to your questions, but what should be asked is ,can the SRU do a significantly better job than they are currently doing ,to minimise/stop the effects of this cancer that is contributing to the slow death of club Rugby in Sydney?

Got me thinking so did a quick count on the current gen Blue 20's side which took the field last weekend -
Randwick - 8
Uni - 7
Easts - 2
Warringah - 2
Norths - 1
Manly - 1
Souths - 1
Country - (Bradford) unless he has moved to Sydney

A mate also attended the Syd Uni colts trial on the weekend and from what he could glean from talking with some parents is this years crop of recruits includes -

3 * AUS schools
5 * NSW 1 & 2 Schools
2 * Qld 1 & 2 schools
1* Gordon 1sts colt (2016)


Should be very strong and competitive across all grades yet again.

 

[sidelineview]

If I'm correct in basing it on 6 points for Gen Blue players & Aussie Schoolboys; and 4 points for State players from the previous year, the following player points without discounts would apply:

Got me thinking so did a quick count on the current gen Blue 20's side which took the field last weekend -

Randwick - 8 - 32 - 48 points (Assuming all were at least State players from the previous year)
Uni - 7 - 28 - 42 points
Easts - 2 - 8 - 12
Warringah - 2 - 8 - 12
Norths - 1 - 4 - 6
Manly - 1 - 4 - 6
Souths - 1 - 4 - 6
Country - (Bradford) unless he has moved to Sydney - 4 -6

A mate also attended the Syd Uni Colts trial on the weekend and from what he could glean from talking with some parents is this years crop of recruits includes -

3 * AUS schools - 18
5 * NSW 1 & 2 Schools - 20
2 * Qld 1 & 2 schools - 8
1* Gordon 1sts colt (2016) - ?
Total = 46 points without Gen Blue players

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The randwick situation is ridiculous. Hell, its even unaustralian!
They have recruited kids from other club's juniors whom they never beat in state champs through the ages and, reading between the lines, they are one of the prime movers for relaxing the points system.
Just as they did when the game was amateur and the Wallabies coach was their recruiting officer.
At some point those behind the recruiting need to have a look at what the lack of hard weekly competition is doing to our Super Rugby teams on a weekly basis.
The recruiting of rock stars to the major school comps produces lopsided comps; then they go into colts with lopsided comps; then they go into grade with lopsided comps; then they go into NRC with at best a variable comp.
During none of this are the anointed players given even adequate basic skills: Kafer commented on Saturday night that its rare to have an aussie backline with 2 left foot kickers.
Most aussie backlines at even the highest levels have no left foot kicker and nobody with a left foot kick to speak of.
Is it any wonder we have so much pressure on our kickers - the lowest ranked player in NZ knows that all he has to do is dive/aim at the aussie 10's right foot cos its all he's got.
The game is slipping way from relevance in this country - and when we talk of the grass roots as needing some help they need to help themselves and be less self interested.

 

[the coach]

As per my earlier post, we shouldn't assume all of these school leavers will play colts this year. Kellaway and Horwitz (has only played 1st grade) came straight from school to grade and I think Goddard did too (?). Hanigan also started in 1st grade straight from school, but then dropped back to colts. I'm sure there are other examples at other clubs. I'm also pretty sure Beale went straight from school to the Waratahs.

 

[I like to watch]

there are exceptions to every rule coach.
The odd kid bypassing colts has little to do with 2 clubs cornering the market in schoolboy reps, and what rules should be enforced to spread the wealth fr the good of the game.

 

[Dave Beat]

I think kids benifit through colts, grade, and shute - having a hit out against hardened adults.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As per my earlier post, we shouldn't assume all of these school leavers will play colts this year. Kellaway and Horwitz (has only played 1st grade) came straight from school to grade and I think Goddard did too (?). Hanigan also started in 1st grade straight from school, but then dropped back to colts. I'm sure there are other examples at other clubs. I'm also pretty sure Beale went straight from school to the Waratahs.

Coach, if you can't see the common denominator with those players I can't help you........and just by the way not one was a Randwick junior