Sydney Colts - 2015

[I like to watch]

They are not having a better than average season.
An average season would see them finish the year in colts 1's.
This year they lasted a couple of weeks before it was decided it was better for all concerned they don't contest that grade this year.
Not hating on anyone,just recognising that this year is a step backwards for the folk out west.
I'm still hopeful the wood ducks in charge of the sport, give them some support to get to the next level.
I would love to see the Riff have 3 colts teams in the finals in a few years,and for everyone on these boards complaining about the advantages they have over the rest.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

5/6 last week. Didn't see then Marlin ambush coming.

Round 16 Tips
Manly v Warringah. MMM on a roll and will win by 15+

Eastern Suburbs v Eastwood. Pressure game for both teams with finals positions at stake. Tough game to call but the tossed coin has just come up for the Beasties by < 7.

Southern Districts v Randwick. Randi-Wix with thrash their opponents by 20+.

Gordon v Sydney University. The Corporation have their big guns back and will win by 15+.

Parramatta v The Bye. Easy 5 points victory for the M2B to put pressure on the other top 6 aspirants.

West Harbour v Northern Suburbs. Shoremen have a point to prove that last weeks game was just an anomaly and will win by 18+.

 

[I like to watch]

Marlins will score plenty v Rats
Woodies piggies will get them home against the beasts in a dour game.
Wicks will tear Souths a new one.
Gordon seem to have run out of puff,so Uni will avenge their first round loss convincingly.
Parra will love the rest & guaranteed 5 points on their march to the finals.
Norths will blow Wests off the park.big win expected

 

[Quick Hands]

Not sure why you are all hating on Penrith colts and why the issue isn't their juniors potentially being pilfered AGAIN.

No real discussion on whether this might be true.

They are having a better than average season and that's surely not a bad starting point.

No one is hating Penrith, people are just commenting on the reality which isn't a very healthy situation for either the club, the players or the code.

I'm not sure how long you have been involved and by what standard you are suggesting that this is "a better than average season". I was involved in colts for about 8 years in the early 00s and for most, if not all of that time Penrith fielded 4 grades of colts. By the end of the season there were a few players doubling up in 3s and 4s, but 1st and 2nd colts were competitive all season - particularly the first grade sides. They were always hard to beat, and even if sometimes they conceded a few points it was often in the last 10-15 mins of the match.

Unfortunately for all concerned, the trend has been a steady decline for the past 10 years, with occasional highlights. Bit of a similar story in grade too. There was an article posted on one of the threads and it would seem that the decline started when the NSWRU/ARU cut the number of DOs working in Sydney's west.

All clubs lose juniors when colts starts for a variety of reasons - there's quite a few boys who come from Manly playing elsewhere too, same with the Rats, same with Gordon. It's just the way it is.

No one would be happier than I would be if Penrith grade and colts teams could be competitive, but without significant assistance from NSWRU I just can't see it happening. Amateur players will go where they perceive good coaching, a good structure and where they can have an enjoyable experience with their mates. When a lot of boys leave a club (any club not just Penrith), it's an indication that they don't think those things are evident.

 

[Quick Hands]

Eastwood to win at home
Norths back in the winners' circle
Parra in 2s over Penrith
Randwick to gallop to victory
Uni over Gordon
Manly should beat the Rats - suspect it will be closer than some expect (I'm always wary of a Warringah team playing Manly)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

To head off the inevitable question, here is a summary of the competition rules regarding finals eligibility:

1. A player must play in a minimum of four rounds during the minor premiership games unless they have been on Representative Duties (National U20 and/or Super Rugby. State U20 representative duties not currently included but I suspect this is an oversight as the National U20 Champs have only been held for the last 2 years. Change comes slowly sometimes.) If absent on Representative Duties, then the minimum requirement is two minor premiership games.

2. A player is not eligible to play in Finals Series fixtures in any grade lower that the grade in which they have played the majority of their last 7 matches. A player may apply for dispensation to this if they have played > 60% of the season in the grade they wish to play in (lower than the grade they played the majority of their last 7 matches in).

3. Players who have only played two matches to qualify for Finals due to being absent on Representative Duties are eligible for Colts 1, First or Second Grade only.

4. If a player starts in a lower grade and comes off the bench in a higher grade in any given minor premiership round, they are considered to have played in the lower graded match. If they don’t start any games, but take the field off the bench in more than one game, then the highest graded game that play in will be considered their playing grade for that day (important for the “majority of the last 7 games played” ruling).

5. Colts eligible players (Under 20 at 1 Jan 2015) can play in Colts finals matches if the majority of their last 7 games (or 60% of their season) has been in Colts 1-3, or 3rd or 4th Grade.

6. Colts 1 eligible players are also eligible to play 1st to 3rd Grade Finals matches.

7. Colts 2 or Colts 3 eligible players are also eligible to play Colts 1 or 1st to 4th Grade Finals matches.

8. Colts eligible players who have played the majority of their last 7 matches in 3rd or 4th grade are not eligible for Colts 3 finals.

9. Clubs may apply for dispensations to all of the above criteria.

There are other rulings about “open selection” when a team has more than one team in the finals. These are tricky to interpret and won’t be summarised here.

What does this mean?
a. The Grade in which a player has played >= 4 of their last 7 games is important.
b. The Grade in which a player has played 60% of the season is important, especially if they have been filling gaps in Grade 1 or 2 towards the end of the season.
c. Playing a 3rd or 4th Grade game is considered to be an eligible Colts 1 or Colts 2 game for Colts Eligible players but not Colts 3.

 

[Done that]

Are they "being pilfered",i.e. are other clubs actively seeking them
to jump ship , or is it simply that the players don't want to continue
playing with the Penrith club for whatever reason.
There is a difference.
If it's the latter , then it behoves the Penrith club to address the issue.

 

[Sideline Eye]

Match reports for Colts round 15: Eastwood v West Harbour
Match previews for Colts round 16: Eastwood v Eastern Suburbs

Available here: http://www.eastwoodrugby.com.au/civicrm/mailing/view?reset=1&id=282

 

[Seymour Butz]

Pretty sure we played Penrith in a subbies grand final 10 or 15 years ago (but could be wrong about that). Have they always been in the SS ?

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Pretty sure we played Penrith in a subbies grand final 10 or 15 years ago (but could be wrong about that). Have they always been in the SS ?

I think they started in the Shute shield around 1995.

 

[Seymour Butz]

Righto, just checked the archives, and it was 2001 I was thinking of, but Liverpool was the opposition, not Penrith. Roughly the right direction. Wrong city.

 

[Whale berry]

Penrith (aka Nepean) were long time participants in what was the old 2nd division before it was absorbed into Subbies around 1993.
I think it was at this time that Penrith went up to Shute Shield.
Will look up some old programs to confirm

 

[GTPIH]

Beasties win all three grades with a bonus point.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Round 16 Results

W. McMahon Memorial Shield - Colts 1
Manly 21 Warringah 24
Eastern Suburbs 40 Eastwood 26
Southern Districts 5 Randwick 31
Gordon 10 Sydney University 38
Parramatta 28 The Bye 0
West Harbour 22 Northern Suburbs 24

Shell Trophy - Colts 2
Manly 35 Warringah 29
Eastern Suburbs 41 Eastwood 29
Southern Districts 8 Randwick 19
Gordon 3 Sydney University 49
Penrith 50 Parramatta 40
West Harbour 15 Northern Suburbs 61

Bill Simpson Shield - Colts 3
Manly 24 Warringah 12
Eastern Suburbs 22 Eastwood 5
Southern Districts 10 Randwick 35
Gordon 13 Sydney University 41
Penrith 15 Parramatta 17
West Harbour 22 Northern Suburbs 22



Round 17 Games - 18 July
West Harbour v Parramatta
Eastern Suburbs v Northern Suburbs
Eastwood v Randwick
Penrith v Southern Districts (Bye in Colts 1)
Manly v Gordon
Sydney University v Warringah

Round 18 Games - 25 July
Northern Suburbs v Sydney University
Randwick v Manly
Gordon v Penrith (Bye in Colts 1)
Parramatta v Eastern Suburbs
Southern Districts v West Harbour
Warringah v Eastwood

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Eric Spilsted Shield (Colts Club Championship) Watch:
The Gallopers maintain a lead of more than 1 round of maximum points on The Corporation and it should prove to be unassailable. In turn, the Corporation has established a lead of more than a rounds maximum points over the Shoremen in third place.

Predicted mid table jockeying occurred, and I reckon that there will be more of the same next week.

There are a maximum of 55 points available to a club each week, based on all 3 colts teams winning with a 4 try BP.

Randwick, 812 points (Estimated)
Sydney University, 755 points
Northern Suburbs, 670 points
Gordon, 562 points
Eastern Suburbs, 471 points (up 1 place)
Eastwood, 428 points (down 1 place)
Southern Districts, 413 points
Manly, 383 points
Parramatta, 366 points
West Harbour, 287 points
Warringah, 191 points#
Penrith, 139 points


How the Colts Club Championship table is calculated.
The competition points from the individual competitions are multiplied by the following factors and then added together.
Colts 1 - 6
Colts 2 - 3
Colts 3 - 2

# Warringah deducted 4 points for a Late Forfeit in Round 1 Colts 3, and 2 Points for a Forfeit in Round 2 Colts 3.

 

[I like to watch]

20+ ha ha.
Good to see you got up in 1's on Saturday - that's back to back wins for you.


Looking forward to this weekend then, solid hit out for us against 3rd placed Nths who'd had only lost 3.
Pack was outstanding and the outside backs dominated at the crucial moments of the game. Scott Williams is coming back to say hi for this game, as well as Kane Ladhams.
Derby day.

Yep kudos to Manly for an unexpected win in what's been a dismal year for them, in all colts grades.
But don't gloat too early Dave,I'm tipping a huge win for the Marlins colts next week.
And I seem to get most Marlins games wrong....

Haha,who would have tipped that?
Marlins tear Rats a new one in the first round,then change tactics totally this time round.

The way the Marlins played away from their strengths and played to their weaknesses defied logic.
Whenever their kicker could actually find touch from penalties,they lose the lineout,but they kept doing it all day.
Meanwhile, everytime the 13 gets it he almost scores,so they make sure he only gets it from Rats errors,and Osagie (their leading try scorer)hardly touched the ball all game.

No wonder they are out of finals contention.

But it was a great win by the junior Ratties!
Especially the tight 5,that's where they won the game today,they dominated the set piece,and were superior at the breakdown all day long.
Big effort from the single digits!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Finals Watch Update:

If the finals were held this coming weekend, the games would be:
Colts 1:
Randwick vs Gordon
Sydney University vs Eastwood
Northern Suburbs vs Eastern Suburbs

Top 3 teams seem fairly settled with any one of 6 teams likely to fill the last 3 slots available.

The Run Home:
Randwick 77 points - Eastwood (A), Manly (A)
Sydney University 67 points - Warringah (H), Northern Suburbs (H)
Northern Suburbs 58 points - Eastern Suburbs (A), Sydney University (A)
Eastern Suburbs 49 points - Northern Suburbs (H), Parramatta (A)
Eastwood 47 points - Randwick (H), Warringah (A)
Gordon 46 points - Manly (A), The Bye
Parramatta 42 points - West Harbour (H), Eastern Suburbs (H)
Southern Districts 38 points - The Bye, West Harbour (H)
Manly 38 points - Gordon (H), Randwick (H)

Using the previous 2015 results & BP allocation for these remaining fixtures (no guarantee these will repeat in all instances) the final points could be:
Randwick: 87 points
Sydney University: 73 points
Northern Suburbs: 68 points
Eastern Suburbs: 54 points
Eastwood: 52 points
Gordon: 52 points
Parramatta: 48 points
Southern Districts: 47 points
Manly: 47 points

50+ points seems to be the cut off for making the Final 6.

Colts 2: (no change)
Sydney University vs Eastern Suburbs
Northern Suburbs vs Southern Districts
Randwick vs Gordon

Top 5 seem fairly comfortable and there is intense competition between Beasts and Emus for the 6th qualifying slot.

Colts 3:
Randwick vs West Harbour
Sydney University vs Manly
Gordon vs Northern Suburbs

Positions 1-4 are comfortable although there may be movements between 2 & 3. Currently 5 teams are in hot competition for the last 2 slots.

 

[Quick Hands]

Haha,who would have tipped that?
Marlins tear Rats a new one in the first round,then change tactics totally this time round.

The way the Marlins played away from their strengths and played to their weaknesses defied logic.
Whenever their kicker could actually find touch from penalties,they lose the lineout,but they kept doing it all day.
Meanwhile, everytime the 13 gets it he almost scores,so they make sure he only gets it from Rats errors,and Osagie (their leading try scorer)hardly touched the ball all game.

No wonder they are out of finals contention.

But it was a great win by the junior Ratties!
Especially the tight 5,that's where they won the game today,they dominated the set piece,and were superior at the breakdown all day long.
Big effort from the single digits!

Sounds like the wheels have fallen off. What a dismal day.

 

[BillyBlack]

The U/18 was a fantastic initiative, and was well supported by a number of clubs that should be congratulated - Southern Districts, West Harbour, Parramatta, and Gordon. There were other clubs that participated but for reasons unknown they withdrew at different times during the season (Sydney Uni, Randwick and Manly). Regardless of the reasons for withdrawing - well done to them as well.
Others just couldn't put team together, which is a little surprising considering the overall Club strength and location of Eastwood, Northern Suburbs, and East Suburbs. The other clubs that didn't compete we can understand - Penrith and Warringah.
So let's hope that more clubs can compete (for the full season) next year.

There may be a couple of games still to be played over the last two weeks when West Harbour play Parramatta and Southern Districts.
Regardless of the results I can say with certainty that we can congratulate Southern Districts who (I believe) went thru the season undefeated (to date).

May I suggest (as previously mentioned) that the U/18 completion be incorporated into the Club Championship table. I believe that this would ensure/encourage Uni, Randwick and Manly (and other clubs such as Norths, Eastwood and Easts participate).

 

[Whale berry]

The U/18 was a fantastic initiative, and was well supported by a number of clubs that should be congratulated - Southern Districts, West Harbour, Parramatta, and Gordon. There were other clubs that participated but for reasons unknown they withdrew at different times during the season (Sydney Uni, Randwick and Manly). Regardless of the reasons for withdrawing - well done to them as well.
Others just couldn't put team together, which is a little surprising considering the overall Club strength and location of Eastwood, Northern Suburbs, and East Suburbs. The other clubs that didn't compete we can understand - Penrith and Warringah.
So let's hope that more clubs can compete (for the full season) next year.

There may be a couple of games still to be played over the last two weeks when West Harbour play Parramatta and Southern Districts.
Regardless of the results I can say with certainty that we can congratulate Southern Districts who (I believe) went thru the season undefeated (to date).

May I suggest (as previously mentioned) that the U/18 completion be incorporated into the Club Championship table. I believe that this would ensure/encourage Uni, Randwick and Manly (and other clubs such as Norths, Eastwood and Easts participate).

Absolutely agree that the U/18's should be maintained and developed, hey even a simple thing like putting the scores in the paper would be a welcome innovation.
Any club not embracing the 18's is crazy, what a great way to develop a recruitment stream for the higher age colts.