Super Rugby: Round 1. Rebels vs Brumbies - 23 Feb AAMI

[Rebel man]

Who said he want to be a Wallabies player? If you are trying to upsell that Carter can tackle and that a good attribute for a 10 you really are clutching at straws.

I sincerely apologise on behalf of the Brumbies that the Rebels were dominated and Noah didn't have the need to show his defences abilities to prove to you he can tackle noting its a key criteria of being a Wallaby according to you.

But just a heads up, its quite common even for RWC winning 10s to be pretty average in defence. Maybe it's a false metric the Wallabies and supports seem to keep obsessing about.

Anyways, back the the Rebels abject failure last night........

Pretty sure Noah has stated he wants to play Wallabies, if he didn’t why would he have stayed in Super Rugby on 50% of what he could get overseas?

Also it’s funny how sensitive you are, I never mentioned Carter.

World Cup winning 10s can get away with being somewhat suspect in defence because they play on a dominant side. When was the last time anyone could say the Wallabies were dominate

If you want to make it about Noah v Carter last year I felt on form Carter should have played over him. But as soon as they said they wanted a young team ruling out the potential for Cooper or Foley. Noah had to be picked.

But just because it was a mistake not to pick him it doesn’t mean his game is without its flaws

 

[LearningCurve]

Mate you can find better hookers at a truck stop than at the Rebels. If we survive next year Jordy has to be shown the door

How does he keep getting selected and contracted? Big unit for sure, and I was told once that he was a very good scrummager but I just don't see what he brings. Not dominant with ball in hand, lineouts are awful...

 

[The Red Baron]

Lolesio looks much better with Lonergan at 9 as opposed to Nic White last year. Helps that his pack was dominant as well. Was impressed by Sapsford as well, he put some players into space with a couple of really good short balls.

It's pretty clear that the front office issues at the Rebels are affecting the players. They never really looked like they were in the game, it was just a bunch of individuals out there, rather than a team. Oh, and Kellaway really needs to learn to pass the ball. It gets frustrating watching the ball die with him for no gain when there's an open player right next to him.

 

[Rebel man]

How does he keep getting selected and contracted? Big unit for sure, and I was told once that he was a very good scrummager but I just don't see what he brings. Not dominant with ball in hand, lineouts are awful...

He was always rated as a junior as a good scrummager and I can remember him coming on for the junior wallabies and getting the scrum moving forwards.

Think he would benefit from a move there is potential for him still as a player but he has to go.

 

[Rebel man]

Lolesio looks much better with Lonergan at 9 as opposed to Nic White last year. Helps that his pack was dominant as well. Was impressed by Sapsford as well, he put some players into space with a couple of really good short balls.

It's pretty clear that the front office issues at the Rebels are affecting the players. They never really looked like they were in the game, it was just a bunch of individuals out there, rather than a team. Oh, and Kellaway really needs to learn to pass the ball. It gets frustrating watching the ball die with him for no gain when there's an open player right next to him.

Same as the Wallabies season last year, who ever was at 10 was better with Tate at 9

 

[dru]

Yeah, really hurt the points he let through with his poor defence.

You're getting silly, mst. Lolo won that round without a doubt but it doesn't justify comments like Carter needing to go away to "see if he is any good or not".

ESPN stats seem a little odd (check the possession/territory figures) but if their player stats are close here are some things to consider.
1. Both players miss tackles ratio was similar
2. Carter came very close to being the highest tackle count in the team. Defensively a huge performance.
3. Lolo had less than half Carter's tackles
4. At the same time Carter managed 24 passes and 8 runs to Lolo's 17 passes and 9 runs.

Does that mean that Carter was better? No of course not and clearly Lolo came out on top. But I just suspect that the different forward packs may have impacted both players.

Carter is a superb and developing fly half, so is Lolo with more runs on the board, more experience, and better last night. It's good to see two solid fly halves testing each other, AND noting that they are not the only two in Australia right now. FWIW my money is on Lolo, i'm just not righting off Carter.

 

[Shiggins]

The crowd looked pretty small on tv. Apparently Vic has a big rugby following. Is it more regional and that's why the crowds are usualy poor ?

 

[chiraag]

The crowd looked pretty small on tv. Apparently Vic has a big rugby following. Is it more regional and that's why the crowds are usualy poor ?

Tickets not on sale until very late in the week would definitely have been a factor. Next week will be a better gauge, although the performances from the force and rebels this week certainly won't have helped

 

[Shiggins]

Tickets not on sale until very late in the week would definitely have been a factor. Next week will be a better gauge, although the performances from the force and rebels this week certainly won't have helped

Hahaha yeh for sure. Will be hard for them to have a good crowd when there is so much rugby to choose from in Melbourne next week and the force won't draw anyone at all

 

[Alex Sharpe]

A couple of points from previous conversation:

On Carter:
Certainly hard to judge him when the rest of his side was that poor, but I am concerned about his confidence and enjoyment of the game. He has gone from the Eddie disaster in ‘23 to the Rebels disaster of ‘24. It’s hardly the environment for talent to flourish. It’s a harsh opinion but you’d have to argue that being in a Brumbies or Reds environment would be better for him as a player.

On Tupou
He needs a rethink of his conditioning. He is naturally powerful, and would still be just as effective if he was 5-10 kgs lighter. The difference is that his lower body would have less load to carry, he would be biomechanically more efficient and probably about to play at the same standard for more minutes. There is plenty of footage of him shifting enormous tin in weight rooms but i think he needs a big block of lower intensity and higher volume to harden his body. Unfortunately the preaseason just passed would have been the time to do that

 

[stillmissit]

Well - I was primarily referring to the Brumbies being confident that if they were patient they would force an error or turnover.

I don’t think they were great but I actually thought the Rebels had some good passages and they did get some pay off their big runners - but they rarely put 4+ good phases together and when they made a mistake the Brumbies burnt them on the counter.

I think a fair bit of credit needs to go to the Brumbies and how comfortable they are with their game. It is much easier for a guy like Charlie Cale to come in and have a stormer when he just has to worry about doing his own job and the players around him are very well rehearsed in their roles.

Confidence comes and goes in young players and had Gordon been behind the Brumbies pack and vice-versa the result would have been very different.
My concern is that Foote has no idea how to get these guys to play a structured game, which is what I believe they and a couple of others need before they can adopt a 'play what's in front of you' style. What was in front of the Rebels was a brick wall and they never attempted to play any other style but running at it.

 

[stillmissit]

You're getting silly, mst. Lolo won that round without a doubt but it doesn't justify comments like Carter needing to go away to "see if he is any good or not".

ESPN stats seem a little odd (check the possession/territory figures) but if their player stats are close here are some things to consider.
1. both players miss tackles ratio was similar
2. Carter came very close to being the highest tackle count in the team. Defensively a huge performance.
3. Lolo had less than half Carter's tackles
4. At the same time carter managed 24 passes and 8 runs to Lolo's 17 passes and 9 runs.

Does that mean that Carter was better? no of course not and clearly Lolo came out on top. But I just suspect that the different forward packs may have impacted both players.

Carter is a superb and developing fly half, so is Lolo with more runs on the board, more experience, and better last night. It's good to see two solid fly halves testing each other, AND noting that they are not the only two in Australia right now. FWIW my money is on Lolo, i'm just not righting off Carter.

What concerned me about Carter was his consistently entering the breakdown, he needs to do what he is paid to do and that is to distribute and break defences. It is OK if you are at risk of a turnover but to take on the clean-out that he often does is counterproductive.

 

[Dctarget]

The crowd looked pretty small on tv. Apparently Vic has a big rugby following. Is it more regional and that's why the crowds are usualy poor ?

The absolute hubris from a force fan of all people. Tell me what happens when your sugar daddy moves on?

keep supporting Aus rugby champ.

 

[TSR]

With regards to Carter v Lolesio I am reminded of Dan McKellar’s words a few years ago when he urged patience with the crop of young 10s coming through noting that it took 3-4 yrs of pro rugby before they really understood their game.

Lolesio is now into his 5th year as a senior pro rugby player. He has picked up some well deserved accolades along the way including a MOM in a Super Rugby AU final and helping guide Australia to a test series win against France. He’s also had his share of hurdles. He’s now played within the Brumbies system but also test level rugby and a stint in Toulon. He’s playing in a team where the systems are well established and the players around him know their role and his coach has a mix of local and OS experience.

Gordon is starting his 3rd year as a senior super rugby player. He’s coming off a very good Super rugby season but a challenging stint with the Wallabies. I don’t think he would be human if his Wallabies experience last year didn’t throw his confidence a fair bit (of course Lolesio has also had to deal with a bit of that). His team is much more clunky and he’s playing outside a new half.

Anyway, this is probably all just stating the obvious but I don’t think it’s too surprising Lolesio took the points last night. Do the Rebels and Brumbies play again this year? A second clash will be pretty interesting as you’d assume/hope that the Rebels have far more improvement in them from last night.

 

[dru]

What concerned me about Carter was his consistently entering the breakdown, he needs to do what he is paid to do and that is to distribute and break defences. It is OK if you are at risk of a turnover but to take on the clean-out that he often does is counterproductive.

Stewart-esque. It always used to bother me though Stewart was and is a very effective playmaker - I think much better positioned at 12 though.

With Carter what I'd be looking for is if it was impacting his playmaking. That is both the defensive work and the fetching. I'm not sure it is based on his touches. Still you'd hope that the coaching voices would be saying - "right you lot, get in and do you day-job so Carter does have to help out so much. Carter, you can NOT work out what is going on and see the opportunities with your head buried in a ruck".

Of course it could actually be the team structure which is placing Carter so that his D load is high. That would be a different issue entirely.

Time will tell.

In the mean time I think Lolo is looking fab.

 

[Tomikin]

Noah played well in a well drilled side, he kicked well ran well and got the biscuits over Carter.

Carter played to the level of his team, some of the things that were glaring at Test level are now evident at Super too. Shit goal kicker (hopefully gets better with more time). Poor kicks too touch I think at least twice he stuffed a penalty kick. Once kicking it too far in goal .. The rest of his games pretty solid, needs to work on these areas and will, his ceiling is higher then Noah's as his just a better athlete..

 

[Fergo]

Noah played well in a well drilled side, he kicked well ran well and got the biscuits over Carter.

Carter played to the level of his team, some of the things that were glaring at Test level are now evident at Super too. Shit goal kicker (hopefully gets better with more time). Poor kicks too touch I think at least twice he stuffed a penalty kick. Once kicking it too far in goal .. The rest of his games pretty solid, needs to work on these areas and will, his ceiling is higher then Noah's as his just a better athlete..

I was just typing the same comments. If Carter can sort his kicking, Carter will get up every time. In 3 seasons Hodge (and To'omua) has been the kicker. All Carter needs to do if find his glide and he’s away. He needs to do it quickly. Carter’s ceiling is higher, not to mention his pace. It’s game 1. Carter will find his stride in game 2.

 

[Tomikin]

I was just typing the same comments. If Carter can sort his kicking, Carter will get up every time. In 3 seasons Hodge (and To'omua) has been the kicker. All Carter needs to do if find his glide and he’s away. He needs to do it quickly. Carter’s ceiling is higher, not to mention his pace. It’s game 1. Carter will find his stride in game 2.

I think it's going take more then one game, his confidence looks down, and when that's down he is making costly mistakes.

But I have high hopes for him..

 

[liquor box]

Lolesio looks much better with Lonergan at 9 as opposed to Nic White last year. Helps that his pack was dominant as well. Was impressed by Sapsford as well, he put some players into space with a couple of really good short balls.

It's pretty clear that the front office issues at the Rebels are affecting the players. They never really looked like they were in the game, it was just a bunch of individuals out there, rather than a team. Oh, and Kellaway really needs to learn to pass the ball. It gets frustrating watching the ball die with him for no gain when there's an open player right next to him.

why pass if they are going to drop the ball?

 

[Fergo]

I think it's going take more then one game, his confidence looks down, and when that's down he is making costly mistakes.

But I have high hopes for him..

I don’t how RA address Carter’s kicking but in NZ when Barrett was struggling early in his career with kicking at 50% and off the side of his boot for touch, the AB were doing everything they could be correct his kicking. The question is, do RA have specialist coaches that could help him out?