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Super Rugby refs inconsistent?

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cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
You all watch too much MMA. Submission holds. :)

Button down boys. I can probably go through footage of the weekend games and pick out dangerous play at the ruck from Saffers, Kiwis and Aussies. There's a bit of free for all when it comes to clearing out and it has been going on for a long time.

I have for a long time thouht the refs are not pinging players for headlocks when clearing out. Unfortunaltey this one resulted in an injury.

Wanna know how Brussow got a season ending injury last year? He was on his haunches, got grabbed around the neck and pulled the wrong way while his leg was trapped. it even happended after the whistle. Oh it was a dirty Kiwi who did it.

Really the "dirty Saffa" card is boring and old. Get over it. What, an Aussie player has never put another player i na headlock at ruck time? Seriously, get a grip.
Indeed, Blue, I agree. Just not on the head. :)
 

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
You all watch too much MMA. Submission holds. :)

Button down boys. I can probably go through footage of the weekend games and pick out dangerous play at the ruck from Saffers, Kiwis and Aussies. There's a bit of free for all when it comes to clearing out and it has been going on for a long time.

I have for a long time thouht the refs are not pinging players for headlocks when clearing out. Unfortunaltey this one resulted in an injury.

Wanna know how Brussow got a season ending injury last year? He was on his haunches, got grabbed around the neck and pulled the wrong way while his leg was trapped. it even happended after the whistle. Oh it was a dirty Kiwi who did it.

Really the "dirty Saffa" card is boring and old. Get over it. What, an Aussie player has never put another player i na headlock at ruck time? Seriously, get a grip.

Agree. (The button was missing for some reason???)
 

HKTiger

Allen Oxlade (6)
I find missing forward passes and knock-ons the most frustrating. When refs miss that it probably means they're in the wrong position. I noticed that the refs were in the defensive line a lot on the weekend. Not sure if that's a directive or not. Previously they have been instructed to be in the offensive line. Especially at rucks. 5 meters to the side, shoulders square and about a meter from the off-side line. Trouble is you will get thumped in that position by inside centres.

The foul play etc. You'll see an angle or get a call from a touchie and adjudicate. Unless it is way off the ball. But any foul play on the ball, you have a solid concept of what happened and you rule on it.

It's the stuff in open play that shouldn't get missed that bewilders me.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
No wonder Aus struggle to get top refs, this blaming the ref make them all run away from the game. What about blaming the players that make stupid mistakes and not playing the refs way? Vok to difficult for some to understand. You blame the refs even a week before the game, its just vokken disgusting to say the least.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Does anyone else notice the inconsistency over the diving off the feet rule at the breakdown? I see Brad Thorn do this every ruck yet he's never penalised.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Does anyone else notice the inconsistency over the diving off the feet rule at the breakdown? I see Brad Thorn do this every ruck yet he's never penalised.

EVERY team does this from time to time!! It is very poorly policed in most games, the amount of flopping is epidemic. It seems to drift in and out of favour with refs. I haven't noticed BBBT does it more or less than anyone else.
 

MrMouse

Bob Loudon (25)
Does anyone else notice the inconsistency over the diving off the feet rule at the breakdown? I see Brad Thorn do this every ruck yet he's never penalised.

I think what PaarlBok was trying to say in his invective laced rant was that Aussie teams have to stop playing to what we all know the law ought to be and is supposed to be, and play to the whistle. If he isn't stopping floppers, flop to your heart's content. If he's not policing the off-side line, tippy-toe over it, and if he forgets about the tackler releasing then hold on for grim life.

The first 15min of the game is then a feeling out period, like a child seeing what it can get away with. Adapt, flow, and brutalise a few guys like a good Du Plessis.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
The officiating at the scrum is a total dogs breakfast.

Some refs are getting the front rows close enough that their heads are touching (a good idea in my opinion) many others have it so that they barely have to touch the guy opposite on the shoulder. This isn’t to mention the timing of the calls.

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?? Is there any common guidance? Seems completely random, with refs just picking up tips from each other in the changeroom or on TV

As for the breakdown, it’s now a total schmozzle. Teams are actively avoiding it because it’s just a penalty generator and you’ve no idea who it’s going to come down on.

I think this is the biggest mess I’ve seen refereeing in.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Why was Ma'afu allowed to get away with a genuine punch on Quade Cooper (for the record I don't think it was a penalty since it was only handbag stuff but...) the previous week a little push cost them the game? This shit needs to get sorted out. The players have no idea what's going on.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Why was Ma'afu allowed to get away with a genuine punch on Quade Cooper (for the record I don't think it was a penalty since it was only handbag stuff but...) the previous week a little push cost them the game? This shit needs to get sorted out. The players have no idea what's going on.
Ma'afu should have been red carded for that , you think it wasnt worth a penalty explained why you probably have no idea whats going on.
 

MrMouse

Bob Loudon (25)
Why was Ma'afu allowed to get away with a genuine punch on Quade Cooper (for the record I don't think it was a penalty since it was only handbag stuff but...) the previous week a little push cost them the game? This shit needs to get sorted out. The players have no idea what's going on.

True. However, an even better question is 'Why was Ma'afu stupid enough to punch Quade Cooper when the previous week a little push cost them the game?' Truly moronic ill discipline.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Ma'afu should have been red carded for that , you think it wasnt worth a penalty explained why you probably have no idea whats going on.

Calm down on the personal stuff please Paarl

As it turns out you're agreeing with his post if you re-read it
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Ma'afu should have been red carded for that , you think it wasnt worth a penalty explained why you probably have no idea whats going on.

Red card? Come on the punch looked soft as and wasn't directly at his head. I definitely don't want to see reds for that but yes he should've been given a yellow or at least a penalty.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Red card? Come on the punch looked soft as and wasn't directly at his head. I definitely don't want to see reds for that but yes he should've been given a yellow or at least a penalty.
So according to you there must be different rules to where punches are directed to?
 

OzSash

Allen Oxlade (6)
Put it this way, if a punch misses it shouldn't count.

Hmm ... maybe. But I think it's more about intent. Also, I believe he did connect (although as mentioned previously, it was handbag stuff). Yellow card for mine.
 

Brumbies Guy

John Solomon (38)
Red card? Come on the punch looked soft as and wasn't directly at his head. I definitely don't want to see reds for that but yes he should've been given a yellow or at least a penalty.

Cooper was holding his jaw and getting treatment for it in back play for the rest of the game (not just milking after). I don't know what got televised but the punch definitely connected and hurt him
 
L

Lachlan

Guest
Does anyone else notice the inconsistency over the diving off the feet rule at the breakdown? I see Brad Thorn do this every ruck yet he's never penalised.

This! The Kiwi teams are great at doing it any getting away with it (not that there's anything wrong with that- I wish our pigs showed half as much desire to secure the ball!). It seems to me the reason they get away with it is because they ALL do it! It sets the 'standard' for breakdown play in games where the ref isn't willing to do it himself. Not to mention players being on the wrong side of the ruck...

Exhibit A: Any game being reffed by Craig Joubert will have no players lying on the wrong side of the ruck. 90% of the time he will penalise players that fall there even if they look like they're trying to roll... and surprise suprise they stop falling on the wrong side.

Exhibit B: Reds V Brumbies (amongst others). Both sides got away with murder in this regard. It was like the game was being reffed under different laws!

That felt good to put in writing as it has been catching my eye a lot this year. Consider this my one and only session of moaning about law interpretations for this season as it achieves nothing. Carry on gentleman :salute
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Finally, some action from SANZAR:

Referees to let rugby run free once more

Wayne Smith

JUST when Australian Super Rugby coaches were about to switch to more conservative tactics because of the way the breakdown is being refereed, SANZAR referees boss Lyndon Bray has promised a course correction by whistle-blowers.

After the attacking extravaganza that was the 2010 season following the IRB's directive to referees to come down hard on tacklers attempting to slow down the ball by not rolling away from the ball carrier, the early rounds this year have seen a far more ferocious contest at the breakdown.

Queensland, arguably the most entertaining side in world rugby last year, was so effectively ambushed by the Force and the Waratahs in the first two rounds that coach Ewen McKenzie abandoned the running game and switched to a field position emphasis against the Brumbies in Canberra on Saturday night.

All the stats suggest the Brumbies should have won easily. They scored four tries to one, made 11 linebreaks to two, carried the ball 140 times to 42 and were in possession for a total of 22 minutes to the Reds' 10.

Yet, despite all that, the Reds spent 55 per cent of the game in the ACT half, allowing Quade Cooper to shoot for goal from nine of the 12 penalties Queensland received. The outcome was a historic 31-26 victory to the Reds, their first Super Rugby win in Canberra.

It was the second successive match in which the Brumbies did all the attacking for no result, following their stunning loss to competition newcomers the Rebels the week before when Danny Cipriani kicked Melbourne to victory.

Statistically, rugby appears to be retreating to where it was in 2007, the year of the last World Cup, when it was so hazardous for teams to attack without conceding penalties that the safe play was to hoist a high ball and pressure the catcher. The Bulls won the Super 14 employing these negative tactics, and provided a blueprint for the Springboks' subsequent World Cup triumph.

From an entertainment standpoint, both the South Africa-England final and the overall tournament were the worst in history, yet it was not until last season that the rugby world got around to rewarding positive rugby.

The results were apparent after only three rounds of the Super 14. By that stage, 120 tries and 1192 points had been scored, with 13 instances of teams claiming a bonus point for scoring four or more tries. Admittedly, the initial refereeing crackdown on tacklers did lead to some blow-out scores in the early rounds.

This year, despite the admission of an extra team, only 87 tries have been scored in the first three rounds, a figure more attuned to 2007 (73) than last year. So far, only the Waratahs with 14 - seven of them against a stage-struck Rebels side on debut - have a double-digit try count, compared to five teams with 10 or more at this stage last year.

But relief is on the way, with Bray revealing a SANZAR directive would be sent today to all teams alerting them of a shift in refereeing emphasis. "We do need to refocus on the tackler by about another 25 per cent," Bray said. "We've probably dropped our guard a little in that area."

But he said an even bigger issue was how the "jackal" - the first defender to arrive at the tackle - was being refereed.

On one hand, Bray said, jackals regularly were being told by referees to take their hands off the ball when, in fact, they were entitled to contest it.

Conversely, referees also were allowing them to get so low over the ball that they were effectively sealing it off.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
The question you have to ask is 'why did this change from the end of last year'? Link's gameplan for one (more to do with his loose trio makeup than attacking rugby) was damaged with the assumption that the rules would be refereed the same. The worst thing now would be for the Super 15 to change the emphasis, then it revert back during the RWC.

Another thing that came to mind when watching some of the Bulls vs Highlanders highlights, was the technique the Bulls have of setting up forward runners in pods. More or less engaging a support player to the ball carrier before the defensive line. I noticed on a few occasions that this support player would roll over the tackled player effectively sealing off the ball. This is something that the refs should also be looking out for as it is clearly illegal.
 
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