Super Rugby - I am bored

[starkz]

I would like for a 16 team comp, with 8 teams each from Australia and New Zealand.
To me, the biggest issue with super rugby is the travel and lack of Australian derbies, but I think this kind of comp would solve that problem.

 

[Scoey]

And herein lies the number 1 problem we have. All our eggs are in 1 basket. And that 1 basket only plays 6 times a year in Australia and once or twice in each major city. And they will always have periods of poor performance, especially as rugby becomes bigger around the world.

The key to growing rugby in Australia is not the Wallabies. Good periods for the Wallabies should be a bonus, not the foundation of the games success. It's the level underneath that is most important. And the level underneath currently sucks compared to the other major football codes. Super rugby is an unwieldy competition that doesn't produce enough local 'product' and continually gets undermined by the national unions that run it.



NRL, AFL, A-League, Top 14, Aviva Premiership, European Cup rugby.all trending up significantly over the last 10 years.

Australian rugby.trending down. The NRC should be a great development competition but it isn't going to solve the bigger problems.

Carry forward these trends a few more years and the ARU will not be able to keep our best players in Australia. Our competitions will be 2nd rate and the Wallabies will be picked from the top European leagues. Niche sport status confirmed.

Super Rugby doesn't suck. You may think so but that doesn't make it so.
And of your 6 examples of 'competitors', 3 of them are Rugby. So I say again, Rugby is fine.
Like it or not, the key to the success of Rugby in Australia is the Wallabies. You fuck with Super Rugby too much, you undermine the national team and then we've cooked the goose.
But anyway, that's just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Omar Comin']

Super Rugby doesn't suck. You may think so but that doesn't make it so.
And of your 6 examples of 'competitors', 3 of them are Rugby. So I say again, Rugby is fine.
Like it or not, the key to the success of Rugby in Australia is the Wallabies. You fuck with Super Rugby too much, you undermine the national team and then we've cooked the goose.
But anyway, that's just my opinion.

Well personally I enjoy Super Rugby much more than the NRL, AFL or A League. But of those competitions it's the 4th most valuable to Australian broadcasters and it attracts the 4th most amount of fans. These are objective facts. And it largely comes down to the amount of content (at least when comparing super rugby to the A League). This is the context in which super rugby sucks.

Look at how well soccer and cricket have gone since they've moved their primary focus away from their national team. Previously, the success of soccer in Australia was reliant on the fortunes of the socceroos. That's no longer the case because of the A League. The same thing is happening in cricket now with the success of the Big Bash.

Super Rugby or whatever top domestic tier we have should be designed to provide most value to the fans, not most value to the Wallabies. The Wallabies on their own will never be able to compete with the NRL or AFL.

And of your 6 examples of 'competitors', 3 of them are Rugby.

Yep, where domestic rugby doesn't take so much of a back seat to test rugby. Where they're trying to build huge club competitions that fans care about as much as their test teams. That provide tonnes of content week in week out. Where broadcasting revenue is increasing substantially. Unfortunately these leagues are played in the middle of the night for Australian viewers, so lets hope we can create something that matches those leagues in our own time zone.

 

[Omar Comin']

Last point: focusing on improving the top domestic league (or the '2nd tier') will help the Wallabies in the long run anyway. It would improve our depth and improve the popularity of the sport as a whole. This would increase the quality, popularity and prestige of the Wallabies over time as well.

But the key is that 2nd tier. Week in, week out competition in all the right markets at ideal times. It's not some brilliant new idea. It's just what works for every single major sporting competition in the world.

 

[ChargerWA]

I watched 5 of the games on the weekend and they were all pretty dire (missed the Chiefs/Crusaders game). I then had to sit through a game of aerial ping pong at a family do ,first one I would have seen in a couple of years and it reaffirmed how great Rugby is.

Rugbys biggest difference is how much contested ball there is in a game. In Afl they spend half of their time kicking it backwards to avoid a contest. Soccer, same. NRL the ball isn't contested as part of the tackle, scrum, pretty much the whole fucking thing by the time they do away with the line out and make the defensive line stand back 10 metres.

It also why the laws are so complex, the contested nature of the game demands it.

I can kind of see where you are coming from after a round like the last one, but I don't think the game or the Super comp are fundamentally broken.

 

[Bardon]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the quality of Super Rugby. In terms of the competition itself it might suffer due to the format compared to NH rugby. But there are so few teams in Super Rugby that it's hard to change it without introducing more teams.

Super Rugby is currently filling the role of a domestic top level competition and an international competition. Up here we have 3 leagues, Aviva Premiership, Top14 and Pro12 that provide all the local content in terms of derbies etc.

Then we have the HEC & Amlin (or their successors from next season) for the pan-European competitions.

The biggest difference to me in watching all these competitions is that the match ups in Europe seem bigger because they don't happen every season. As a Leinster fan getting the likes of Toulouse, Toulon, Leicester etc. in your pools gives you 2 games to get really excited about. They're more special because they are rarer events.

Now in the Pro12 we have the added excitement of teams pushing to qualify for next season's European Cup. In 5-10 years time I expect us to also have the excitement of relegation battles once a Pro12 - 2 is created.

Don't get me wrong things are not perfect up here. European Rugby almost tore itself asunder over the past year with the power struggle over the HEC. But to me games like Tahs v Chiefs or Reds v Sharks would be way more special if it only happen every 3-4 years or so.

But with Super Rugby you just don't have enough teams to make that viable. So although to me the format isn't ideal, it's understandable given the circumstances, so I'll continue to enjoy Super Rugby when I can as part of a balanced diet of NH & SH rugby.

 

[Hawko]

Most of you have probably not seen the Sharks/Cheetahs game. Due to insomnia I turned it on and watched live (usually I tape such matches so I can fast forward).

While I can see both sides of the argument, I would rather put my eyes out with a hot poker than watch the first half of the Sharks/Cheetahs game again. The Cheetahs decided that the best way to beat the Sharks was to play the Sharks back at them. So when the Sharks kicked for territory the Cheetahs kicked it straight back. There were periods for minutes long where forwards stood in the middle watching the ball sail back and forth across their heads. It was utterly dire.

But until the refs recalibrate their decision making and stop the negative play that means attacking players are very likely to lose the ball if they run with it, coaches like Jake White will continue to prosper and kicking will remain the first choice method of attack.

 

[mst]

Most of you have probably not seen the Sharks/Cheetahs game. Due to insomnia I turned it on and watched live (usually I tape such matches so I can fast forward).

While I can see both sides of the argument, I would rather put my eyes out with a hot poker than watch the first half of the Sharks/Cheetahs game again. The Cheetahs decided that the best way to beat the Sharks was to play the Sharks back at them. So when the Sharks kicked for territory the Cheetahs kicked it straight back. There were periods for minutes long where forwards stood in the middle watching the ball sail back and forth across their heads. It was utterly dire.

But until the refs recalibrate their decision making and stop the negative play that means attacking players are very likely to lose the ball if they run with it, coaches like Jake White will continue to prosper and kicking will remain the first choice method of attack.

@ Hawko - Your comments go to the essence of what this thread is about. Its not the "game or rugby" being boring, its certain games and certain teams that are well known for dragging a good game down to make it an experience we suffer rather than watch - as per the example you cited. I have no issue with watching an amazing defensive effort, but if that is the sum total of a teams game plan bring on the hot pokers!

I get kicking for territory, but when the game accommodates comfortably, and rewards with success the majority of time an offensive plan based on smothering defence, kicking the ball away and have minimal possession with the primary scoring method kicking penalties its a sad advertisement for the game.

This can be fixed but its up to the whistle blowers and the governing bodies at all levels to get with the times and "improve" the game rather than change it.

 

[USARugger]

Yup seems to be endemic to oval ball codes at the moment.

Then you look at the Premiership, Top 14 and Heineken Cup games in Europe and the fans don't appear to complain much.

Which is all a bit ironic as watching the Top 14 could probably be used as an actual form of torture 50% of the time.

@Qwerty51

Couldn't agree more about the offsides line enforcement. The Cheetahs/Reds game really piqued my interest and got me looking for it in other games and it's absolutely been an issue for lots of teams in lots of games this year.

It seems that we've gained space off of the scrum set piece due to the new protocol but lost space in general play because of the seemingly lenient attitude towards the defending side being shown by some of the Super Rugby refs at the moment.

Personally, Super Rugby has been a bit of a mixed bag this year but honestly I think that's the case every year. I have the distinct feeling that the rounds with a mix of mediocre/good games and one or two real great ones far outweigh the number of rounds that have been packed with top-shelf matches.

There have been some dire matches this year but was there really a time where that wasn't the case? I've had a lot of fun watching the Hurricanes recently, the Force defensive pattern has been a wonder to watch, the Chiefs are showing that they can still attack from just about anywhere on a rugby field, etc.

Maybe we're all just a little down because aside from the Force none of the Aussie sides are performing as well as we all know they could

 

[ACT Crusader]

The main issue I have with Super rugby is the structure of the comp. I just wish each team would get the opportunity to play each other. The conference system has done its dash in my view. It's strange there is really only two things I look for each week - firstly my Saders winning and secondly the Chiefs losing. This gives my team the best chance the best chance of making the finals. All other results I really don't care about. Such a narrow interest has me watching less and less each year since the Conference system started.

The quality of the rugby has been up and down, but that in my view has been no different from previous years. But when you see poor rugby and combine that with a stale structure, I can understand why some fans, even diehard ones can feel disenfranchised.

 

[Pfitzy]

I'm in favour of minor Law variations around time spent - particularly goal kicking, scrums, and injuries. I think everyone is sick of teams like the Cheetahs slowing the game down because their fowards are not fit enough.

Other trials have to be IRB sanctioned, and you just KNOW that if it is purely an Aus/NZ comp that we wouldn't get the approval, because everything we suggest is seen as giving us some kind of advantage over the 6N.

 

[Richo]

I'm in favour of minor Law variations around time spent - particularly goal kicking, scrums, and injuries. I think everyone is sick of teams like the Cheetahs slowing the game down because their fowards are not fit enough.

Absolutely. The Bulls did the same crap on Sunday when they were down a man, meandering 40m for a line-out and wasting a solid minute in the process.

There need to be harsh penalties for time wasting. Have strict time limits and card people for repeated infringements, especially in obvious situations like being a man down.

 

[It is what it is]

The answer is greater use of the Yellow Card.
I reckon we have enough rules already.
Refs just need to better enforce existing rules by using the Yellow Card more often.
Otherwise we'll continue to introduce more rules that will only add complexity and confusion, not improve the game for players or fans.

 

[Blue]

Absolutely. The Bulls did the same crap on Sunday when they were down a man, meandering 40m for a line-out and wasting a solid minute in the process.

Every team does it. When Dennis was sent off in Durban the Tah time wasting was some of the worst Ive ever seen. The Kiwi teams are even worse. Refs need to be brave and penalize immediately for time wasting.

Another area where the yellow card needs to be used is immediately after a card has been already issued. How many times have we seen a card in the red zone and withing minutes the same team infringes again and it's just a penalty. Card another guy right away and teams will wake up.

 

[Blue]

A Bulls fan not enjoying watching his team losing. Not all that surprising.

I assume you're just taking the piss although you seem to be prone to personal attacks when you have little else to add which seems to be the norm.

I have been clear many a time as to my expectations of the Bulls season.

My post is completely general. I used to enjoy watching almost every game regardless of who is playing.

It's just not a good way to spend time any more. Most of it is just shit, whether the Bulls win or lose is immaterial.

Can anyone here seriously suggest that they really enjoy watching a derby from another country and watch it uninterrupted? I would be very surprised.

Someone hit the nail on the head when they said that Heineken Cup stays interesting because the pools change every year.

 

[Blue]

Most of you have probably not seen the Sharks/Cheetahs game. Due to insomnia I turned it on and watched live (usually I tape such matches so I can fast forward).

While I can see both sides of the argument, I would rather put my eyes out with a hot poker than watch the first half of the Sharks/Cheetahs game again.

It was possibly the worst game I have ever watched in Super Rugby.

How are the refs going to stop this though? I cannot see what a ref can do to change that sort of game. He can't stop players from kicking and dropping the ball let alone make poor decisions.

On a side note I really don't get what the Cheetahs were trying to do. Their strength is to run with the ball. They come up against the Sharks and decide to replicate Jakeball and make 100% sure they do it as badly as is humanly possible.

Fuck them. I loved what they did last year but they are scared to play this year. For deciding to play the way they did this weekend they robbed their fans who want to see them play. Naka Drotske is thinking of nothing else but his job so fuck him if he loses his it, it is well deserved.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I agree there doesn't need to be more rules, just a proper enforcement of them.

The McKinnon tackle in the NRL has shown the consequences that can result in rule changes. That incident was 20+ years in the making, starting with the change from a 5m line to a 10m line to allow for better attacking. This resulted in teams attempted to slow the ball player down, which resulted in wrestling techniques to put the player on their back. This resulted in more rule changes regarding the tackle contest and subsequently further wrestling techniques and dominance of the gang tackle in the game. From this 3rd man in started to attempt to tackle the already held up player around the legs. This was outlawed which brought in the practice of lifting the already tackled player to put them on their back and the tackled player fighting to land on their front to enable a quicker play the ball. This eventually has in one case resulted in mid air wrestling and a player landing on his head, completely against what the tacklers were attempting to do.

Now while the tackle contest isn't completely relevance, more so the spiral that one rule change originally designed to increase attacking play can result in. Ironically over that time the attacking play in league has dropped dramatically due to the focus on the tackle, and slowing down the play the ball.

 

[Blue]

Agreed, the refs need to step up. We cannot hope for rule changes to make a difference. The IRB process is like a fifty year old oil tanker - straight ahead. How long did it take to change the scrums? They will always look at the NH comps as a barometer and the stadia are full and TV rights are booming. We can whinge all we want in fact they won't do anything that in their view could assist SH teams in any way.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I don't think they need to.

Remember in either 2010 or 2011 when attacking rugby became much more prevalent again in Super Rugby? This wasn't from a rule change. But just the referees looking at the existing laws and changing how it was interpreted to actually favour the team with the ball, as it should, not the defending team.

 

[ChargerWA]

I was trying to put my finger on what was making the games so bad on the weekend. It's like 2010 all over again when the tackler wasn't being made to release before going for the ball. I feel a bit of that is creeping back in, the clear release doesn't have to be so clear once again. It took nearly a full season to turn that ship around last time.

Add in the off side line being very loosely policed and you have games like you did on the weekend.

SANZAR needs to send the directive down to the refs. But being so close to a World Cup, I doubt they will do much at all. They will have an eye to how the NH are playing the game at the moment and be trying to match or have the game played in a way that will increase our chances at the RWC.