Super Rugby General Chat

[WorkingClassRugger]

Though if I remeber the timezones with Argentina weren't all that bad? A 7pm kick off in Argentina is usually about 10-11 am NZ and 7ish on Aus eastern coast, next day. Kind of relates well, probably suits Aus well, breakfast rugby is great! Though to be honest I prefer we don't read about replacements for Rebels just yet (thinking positive). Almost like arguing over the carcass bafore the horse has died to me.

It's dumb. Shows absolutely no awareness or acknowledgement of the issues that previously plagued Super Rugby. Also would undermine efforts going on in Sth America to build professional Rugby in the region with Argentina as its base in terms of teams. Would add little to no value from a broadcasting perspective. At least here.

If the Rebels are cut then it would be best to run with the 11 remaining and go to a double round robin with 18 games with a bye for 19 rounds home and away providing each team with 2 more home games and a ever so slight increase in total games.

NZ teams would get their all important bye
We wouldn't lose games and would result in a rise in games in Aus. SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) could even look to market itself better in Aus seeing as it's the bigger of the two markets with the most room for growth.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Yeah, Jaguars v2.0 is a non-starter for mine ditto Sunwolves, Hawaii, LA/ San Diego etc. Just adds too much cost for not much revenue IMO.

 

[Marce]

Though if I remeber the timezones with Argentina weren't all that bad? A 7pm kick off in Argentina is usually about 10-11 am NZ and 7ish on Aus eastern coast, next day. Kind of relates well, probably suits Aus well, breakfast rugby is great! Though to be honest I prefer we don't read about replacements for Rebels just yet (thinking positive). Almost like arguing over the carcass bafore the horse has died to me.

Apparently the Kiwis don't want to know anything about Rebels and want to fix this ASAP. Agustin Pichot is in talking with them.

Maybe rugby breakfast would be great for you, a diehard rugby supporter. But if you want to attract casuals and the old rugby fans who converted to League, then is not the best way. It's just for the niche as always

 

[Marce]

It's dumb. Shows absolutely no awareness or acknowledgement of the issues that previously plagued Super Rugby. Also would undermine efforts going on in Sth America to build professional Rugby in the region with Argentina as its base in terms of teams. Would add little to no value from a broadcasting perspective. At least here.

If the Rebels are cut then it would be best to run with the 11 remaining and go to a double round robin with 18 games with a bye for 19 rounds home and away providing each team with 2 more home games and a ever so slight increase in total games.

NZ teams would get their all important bye
We wouldn't lose games and would result in a rise in games in Aus. SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) could even look to market itself better in Aus seeing as it's the bigger of the two markets with the most room for growth.

You should be the Super Rugby CEO, mate. Even I know it would be a step back, although I would have Super Rugby games near my house. Another solution could be upgrade a NPC team to Super Rugby status, so you would have 6 Kiwis, 4 Aussies, 1 Fijian and 1 Pacific Island teams. That would be more financial resources to NZRU but maybe just maybe they deserve it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You should be the Super Rugby CEO, mate. Even I know it would be a step back, although I would have Super Rugby games near my house. Another solution could be upgrade a NPC rugby to Super Rugby status, so you have 6 Kiwis, 4 Aussies, 1 Fijian and 1 Pacific Island team. That would be more financial resources to NZRU but maybe just maybe they deserve it.

If they desperately want a 12 team comp then upgrade a NPC province. I think in Cricket there was once a Central Bulls team based in the North. Do that. But shipping in the Jags is dumb.

Sth America has been building professional Rugby in the form of Super Rugby Americas. Which has had a noticeable impact with Chile making the RWC. At present two more Argentine teams are in the works bringing them to 4. Both Chile and Uruguay are working toward a 2nd franchise a piece and Brazil and Paraguay are finally getting things on track. To have the Jags reenter Super Rugby would undermine those efforts and potentially kill it off. That's a huge negative for Rugby.

If they need Argentina involved do it via a Cup comp. Have the Top 8 from both SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) and Japan in one and the bottom 3-4 from SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) vs the Top 4 from SRA. NZ could even use NPC provinces if they really wanted to assuming it's post season. Still better than shoehorning in a team that would make the time zones problematic.

 

[hoggy]

If they desperately want a 12 team comp then upgrade a NPC province. I think in Cricket there was once a Central Bulls team based in the North. Do that. But shipping in the Jags is dumb.

Sth America has been building professional Rugby in the form of Super Rugby Americas. Which has had a noticeable impact with Chile making the RWC. At present two more Argentine teams are in the works bringing them to 4. Both Chile and Uruguay are working toward a 2nd franchise a piece and Brazil and Paraguay are finally getting things on track. To have the Jags reenter Super Rugby would undermine those efforts and potentially kill it off. That's a huge negative for Rugby.

If they need Argentina involved do it via a Cup comp. Have the Top 8 from both SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) and Japan in one and the bottom 3-4 from SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) vs the Top 4 from SRA. NZ could even use NPC provinces if they really wanted to assuming it's post season. Still better than shoehorning in a team that would make the time zones problematic.

They should have upgraded the NPC when the game went professional instead of Super rugby. NZ is now starting to see the effects of introducing Super Rugby without addressing the underlying platform that already existed.

Don't get me wrong they have done a far better job the Aus but Rugby being no1 in NZ helps.
But the game cannot sustain to levels of professional rugby, the mistake they made was not thinking that the original NPC model could not have evolved into a professional structure.
And we all know the issues with Aus.

 

[Strewthcobber]

There's a reason this is getting floated in a NZ paper.

11 teams is 5 games / week v 6 (etc etc with byes). Less revenue.

NZRU want to maintain the current broadcast deal (6 games), without impacting their expense base (ie they don't want to have to fund another team).

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Yeah, Jaguars v2.0 is a non-starter for mine ditto Sunwolves, Hawaii, LA/ San Diego etc. Just adds too much cost for not much revenue IMO.

Just had my first brilliant idea of the year.

Jaguares back in to Super Rugby but to cut out the long haul flights etc have the team based all season in...................... Melbourne!

They can take over from the Rebels!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There's a reason this is getting floated in a NZ paper.

11 teams is 5 games / week v 6 (etc etc with byes). Less revenue.

NZRU want to maintain the current broadcast deal (6 games), without impacting their expense base (ie they don't want to have to fund another team).

But the alternative of fewer games each week but a longer season would help negate the loss and possibly increase value. A double round robin would be 20 rounds of 5 games each. So 100 in the regular season. With at least one bye.

 

[Omar Comin']

It's ridiculous, especially as it's clear a reincarnated Jaguares would be significantly weaker than the old team (they're not going to change their eligibility requirements back to what it was).

I think a better solution would be to provide a pathway for more South American players to play in Super Rugby within Australian and NZ based teams. The UAR or Sudamerica Rugby could even become partner of the Rebels or a successor Melbourne based team in return for a % of the squad spots.

 

[KevinO]

The thing that will drive me insane if the Rebels are cut and the format goes to all teams home and away, will be that it's the way SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) should have always been. The Rebels have failed in many ways, but Super Rugby will have always failed with the scheduling during the Rebels time. The closest thing to correct was the 3 groups home and away with 4 games against other pools.

 

[Marce]

It's ridiculous, especially as it's clear a reincarnated Jaguares would be significantly weaker than the old team (they're not going to change their eligibility requirements back to what it was).

I think a better solution would be to provide a pathway for more South American players to play in Super Rugby within Australian and NZ based teams. The UAR or Sudamerica Rugby could even become partner of the Rebels or a successor Melbourne based team in return for a % of the squad spots.

That's not makes sense. They are too far away for that option and Super Rugby Americas is a semi-professional competition. Most of the players earn 100 dollars per game.

Australia and NZ need to develop their own players, fill teams with foreigners will only make the Wallabies weaker

 

[Omar Comin']

That's not makes sense. They are too far away for that option and Super Rugby Americas is a semi-professional competition. Most of the players earn 100 dollars per game.

Australia and NZ need to develop their own players, fill teams with foreigners will only make the Wallabies weaker

The best players in Super Rugby Americas will progress to professional teams in Europe and elsewhere, so why not also to professional teams in Australia and NZ?

Decisions about number of teams or the players on those teams shouldn't just come down to what's best for the Wallabies, we want Super Rugby to be a better competition itself. I'd prefer a more open player market across the whole competition, but if that's off the table, filling 1 or 2 Australian based teams with a lot more foreigners (plus locally developed players) is preferable to abandoning a market like Melbourne altogether.

 

[TheHaydog]

Super Rugby would be a better tournament for more rivalries, better engagement and better marketing. It lacks severly in those departments
IMO NZ could've sustained 14 Super Rugby teams by this point, if it had realized the tribalism associated with the NPC, was not worth trading in, to be part of a glorified All Blacks trial run of a tournament. The 14 provincial teams, could've doubled as marketable brands as well on top of the historical connections. E.g. Auckland Blues. Southland Stags, North Harbour Pirates etc

The Australians whom start out with significantly less fanbase and resources per capita to often deal with the NZ sides in terms of quality would finally have a product where they are likely on an even footing. NZRU can't afford to run both the NPC and Super Rugby, that much is obvious in so far as the All Blacks brand is the top of an upside-down pyramid. NZRU to save money would logically prioritize one of these tournaments, so to prevent the current bloatedness of most NZ consumers feeling as if there are too many games a year to attend or to keep up. Centralizing the interest in a given tournament so to speak.

The Ranfurly Shield must stay in this hypothethical however, as it has immense history. Keep it between just the NZ teams however.
You could have 3 "grand finals" in one tournament". An All Aussie final, An All NZ final and the Overall final. Using the ladder positions at the end of a round robin would determine the finalists for the domestic finals. With Quarters and Semis for the Overall. Everyone plays everyone once. Simple

All Blacks would be finally playing for their province on a regular basis, as they have the oppourtunity in a world where these games don't clash with the Rugby Championship. Australia would have 4 teams, NZ 14 plus the Drua and Pasifika whom would probably win games in this edition. The Quarters makes sense. It's 8/20. There are 10 games a week for broadcasters. Which means a lot more afternoon footy. Ticket prices would be slashed, jerseys announced all on the same day across every team. Sure, there are flaws, but at least this idea sees imbalance of quality, lack of genuine historical rivalry and tries to fix it, instead of plonking random teams across the globe.

In conclusion, Super Rugby will ignore any logic, run the tournament into the ground through predictability of outcome, lack of meaning and stupid decision making. The fantasies of what Super 18 couldve been will be ringing in their ears, as they chase money grab one off teams in the US and wherever hosts a world cup going forward. Does it make sense?. No. Does it make the people running the tournament loaded, Definitely.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

IMO NZ could've sustained 14 Super Rugby teams by this point, if it had realized the tribalism associated with the NPC, was not worth trading in, to be part of a glorified All Blacks trial run of a tournament. The 14 provincial teams, could've doubled as marketable brands as well on top of the historical connections. E.g. Auckland Blues. Southland Stags, North Harbour Pirates etc

Excuse me but who are you and how did you manage to access my deepest daily recurring rugby fantasy?

 

[Highlander35]

If you're really jerking around with alt history, I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't have seen a Central Vikings, a Highlanders and a couple of deaths/takeovers within those first 10 years anyway,

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

It's ridiculous, especially as it's clear a reincarnated Jaguares would be significantly weaker than the old team (they're not going to change their eligibility requirements back to what it was).

I think a better solution would be to provide a pathway for more South American players to play in Super Rugby within Australian and NZ based teams. The UAR or Sudamerica Rugby could even become partner of the Rebels or a successor Melbourne based team in return for a % of the squad spots.

It’s a terrible jdea
Will be a b team now and is bad time zone.
I agree. Ok depth in aus isn’t there. Make Melbourne rebels have allowances to sign as many local and arg / SA / USA / CAD players ( the latter two have a hard time getting contracts in Europe)
Maybe rebels have the best 3 CAD players and USA players and a couple bangers from South America. That’s an extra 6-10 players probably not overly expensive.
they need to go moneyball a bit and sign great players from cheap countries not old players from England etc or big expense aus players. Through that could they get some additional funding from rugby cananda USA arg and world rugby? Maybe?
Dedicated pathway for 3 from each country or 5 from each country.

 

[Dan54]

Yeah, Jaguars v2.0 is a non-starter for mine ditto Sunwolves, Hawaii, LA/ San Diego etc. Just adds too much cost for not much revenue IMO.

I think the whole idea is similar to Drua etc, they want Argentina to have good players based at home and npt all playing in Europe. It definitely points to me as a grow the game kind of thing. I pretty relaxed if it happens or not, but can see why they want it.

 

[Mick The Munch]

I think the whole idea is similar to Drua etc, they want Argentina to have good players based at home and npt all playing in Europe. It definitely points to me as a grow the game kind of thing. I pretty relaxed if it happens or not, but can see why they want it.

Why not join the US league

 

[Dctarget]

I wouldn't label John Wylie as an NRL apologist, he is held in pretty high regard across sport and finance sector.

He has chaired the Australian Sports Commission & MCG Trust for a number of years I'd say his comments carry a bit of weight as someone who isn't directly vested in Rugby, or the NRL.

I cant disagree with anything said in that article, i think some of his comments are right on the money, he isn't just complaining about rugby but highlighting why it needs to change some parts, and what needs to be done to achieve that.

He's not an NRL apologist, he's an AFL one. He's been based in Melbourne for 30 years+ and is very, very pro AFL. He has little interest in rugby or its survival.

To be honest his wife is better at supporting rugby (not saying much though).