Super Rugby AU Round 2 - Reds vs Rebels

[PhilClinton]

I'm not actually trying to blow this up into a big deal - I'm more just frustrated after seeing that as all weekend all I heard about was how good this Rebels prop was, such big impacts, huge collisions etc. And yep its very true, good to see a big fella running like that. But he's lacking the fundamentals of his role and being lauded still.

I think Taniela developed into an elite scrummager by honing his trade at club level down at Brothers, so I hope throwing Fa'amausili into Super rugby level before he's become adept doesn't hurt his development. Obvioulsy not having a proper club comp this year doesn't help.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Pone Fa'amausili named Australian tighthead prop of the week by rugby.com.au

As much as I enjoyed watching the bloke run the ball, geez its not really the primary job of the prop. He got minced time and time again in the scrum and was gassed and subbed off after 50mins. No doubt he will improve but naming him as the best prop of the weekend when he didn't do his primary job of scrumming really misses the mark for mine. If Australian rugby fans just want props who are big boys and run the ball hard, don't bother expecting any silverware for a long time.

Well Bell was named in the team of the week by the telegraph which was funny given the hammering in the second half when Holmes came on.

 

[qwerty51]

I was messaging a mate over the weekend about Richie Mo'unga's kickoff. I said an Australian player wouldn't do that because they are too structured and wouldn't identify the opportunity. If he did identify the opportunity he wouldn't have the skills to do it. The kick would either not go 10 metres or if it did he would knock on trying to regather.

Your post is everything that is wrong with the narrative around Australian and New Zealand rugby and it's pissed me off.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ifBOkSUM8vXBMryq8e/giphy.mp4

 

[The Nomad]

The majority of the 48 metres Pone ran for would have been from the one league style hit-up he did off a deep goal line drop out.

Looked impressive and he did get himself into position to make the hit-up , but unlikely to get many other opportunities to run for the metres he did before reaching his first defender.

He was entertaining to watch, which is more than what you can say about the bulk of the game.

 

[Braveheart81]

The majority of the 48 metres Pone ran for would have been from the one league style hit-up he did off a deep goal line drop out.

Looked impressive and he did get himself into position to make the hit-up , but unlikely to get many other opportunities to run for the metres he did before reaching his first defender.

He was entertaining to watch, which is more than what you can say about the bulk of the game.

It would have been about half of his total run metres. Even without that he still topped the run metres for props. He had 9 carries (same as Tupou).

Ball carrying is important for props. Look how often Ala'alatoa carries for the Brumbies.

Clearly scrummaging is the most important part of a prop's role but even a dominant scrum doesn't win games and a serviceable scrum is fine. The biggest change for front rowers in the last decade in the professional game is that they have to be good around the field. The pot plant who is great at scrum time and does nothing else is less of an asset than the guy who is ok at scrum time but can catch, pass and run.

 

[Sully]

He ran 25 m for the hit up and got towelled by Harry Hoopert in the scrum.

 

[Braveheart81]

He ran 25 m for the hit up and got towelled by Harry Hoopert in the scrum.

Who was named LHP of the week in the same list.

 

[Sully]

Who was named LHP of the week in the same list.

So if you get smashed by your direct opposite, but he's in the team of the week, you should be named best in comp? Interesting.

 

[Braveheart81]

So if you get smashed by your direct opposite, but he's in the team of the week, you should be named best in comp? Interesting.

Well no, you get compared to the other guys playing in the same position you did.

I don't think there's really a very good argument that another tight head prop deserved to be in the team of the week more.

Maybe Tupou would have got it if he didn't give away 3 penalties.

 

[Wilson]

Well no, you get compared to the other guys playing in the same position you did.

I don't think there's really a very good argument that another tight head prop deserved to be in the team of the week more.

Maybe Tupou would have got it if he didn't give away 3 penalties.

He also played 91 minutes, drew a few scrum penalties and that scrum dominance that he was spearheading prevented the Rebels from playing any rugby in extra time, at very least securing the draw. Dominating fresh reserves well into extra time is huge, I really can't see how Pone trumps him.

 

[Penguin]

He also played 91 minutes, drew a few scrum penalties and that scrum dominance that he was spearheading prevented the Rebels from playing any rugby in extra time, at very least securing the draw. Dominating fresh reserves well into extra time is huge, I really can't see how Pone trumps him.

I can't believe it's even an argument. A prop who can't scrum isn't much use at all, in rugby, no matter how exciting he looks in full flight. I'd suggest if not using your arms in the tackle (see big hit on Hegarty) was still a refs focus he'd have earned another penalty & a card.

 

[Scooter]

The NSW Country Eagles did it in an NRC Match a year or two back - Clip is on the Rugbycomau twitter page

Yes I saw that earlier today.

 

[Scooter]

Your post is everything that is wrong with the narrative around Australian and New Zealand rugby and it's pissed me off.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ifBOkSUM8vXBMryq8e/giphy.mp4

Fair call to show this video. But you don't think there is too much structure and not enough creativity in Aussie rugby?

I can't recall the number of times over recent years where I have been frustrated by Aussie players not playing what's in front of them eg an overlap and just kicking the ball because that is plan A.

 

[qwerty51]

Fair call to show this video. But you don't think there is too much structure and not enough creativity in Aussie rugby?

I can't recall the number of times over recent years where I have been frustrated by Aussie players not playing what's in front of them eg an overlap and just kicking the ball because that is plan A.

No more than other countries. I don't think there's a difference in the way Aussies play rugby compared to NZ. Any difference is purely down to the players. Let's not forget the Waratahs had Daryl Gibson and now Rob Penney. The Reds have Brad Thorn and we had Robbie Deans. There's NZ coaching influence a plenty. A lot of the Shute Shield coaches are Kiwis too.

 

[RugbyReg]

Pone Fa'amausili named Australian tighthead prop of the week by rugby.com.au

As much as I enjoyed watching the bloke run the ball, geez its not really the primary job of the prop. He got minced time and time again in the scrum and was gassed and subbed off after 50mins. No doubt he will improve but naming him as the best prop of the weekend when he didn't do his primary job of scrumming really misses the mark for mine. If Australian rugby fans just want props who are big boys and run the ball hard, don't bother expecting any silverware for a long time.

gees that's a boring take. What a thing to get upset about. He hasn't been picked by the Wallabies to face to All Blacks. He's been picked in a make believe team to drive a bit of profile for the game. If nothing more he's produced a few good online clicks for the game.

Regardless, Rugby is much more than set piece. The guy has huge potential and has been groomed for a number of years - he hasn't just been thrown into Super Rugby. Even Taniela got minced a few times early in his super rugby (and club) career. It's part of any prop's development. We need athletes across the park and this guy did some ripper stuff for his team.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd suggest if not using your arms in the tackle (see big hit on Hegarty) was still a refs focus he'd have earned another penalty & a card.

He attempted to grasp the player. That's all the law requires.

I think that tackle is fine. I agree that it can be penalised and carded because it's happened in the past (like Cliffy Palu against Wales years ago) but when a tackle this good is made, the player bumps off faster than anyone can reasonably wrap their arms.

 

[Brumby Runner]

gees that's a boring take. What a thing to get upset about. He hasn't been picked by the Wallabies to face to All Blacks. He's been picked in a make believe team to drive a bit of profile for the game. If nothing more he's produced a few good online clicks for the game.

Regardless, Rugby is much more than set piece. The guy has huge potential and has been groomed for a number of years - he hasn't just been thrown into Super Rugby. Even Taniela got minced a few times early in his super rugby (and club) career. It's part of any prop's development. We need athletes across the park and this guy did some ripper stuff for his team.

I'm hoping he is being developed and that his potential will be realised one day. At the moment, he reminds me of Kepu when he first came to notice at the Tahs. For some time, he was an outstanding runner with the ball rather than a strong scrummaging prop.

 

[PhilClinton]

gees that's a boring take. What a thing to get upset about. He hasn't been picked by the Wallabies to face to All Blacks. He's been picked in a make believe team to drive a bit of profile for the game. If nothing more he's produced a few good online clicks for the game.

Regardless, Rugby is much more than set piece. The guy has huge potential and has been groomed for a number of years - he hasn't just been thrown into Super Rugby. Even Taniela got minced a few times early in his super rugby (and club) career. It's part of any prop's development. We need athletes across the park and this guy did some ripper stuff for his team.

I don't think it's boring - its an honest take on his ability to perform his role as a prop.

Don't start with the 'rugby is much more than set piece' either. You know these forums are ruthless when it comes to teams who get demolished in the scrum and lose their own lineout ball, so yes rugby is more than set piece, but it's also a key component of whether your team is successful and if the game is even watchable.

 

[Braveheart81]

No one seemed to be questioning his scrummaging ability the week before against the Brumbies.

The Reds scrum has been dusting up pretty much every other scrum for years. It hasn't translated into that many wins for them.

Tupou is destructive in the scrum but I would argue he takes too many risks doing it. Last season he gave away the most penalties in the competition both at scrum time and overall and whilst he also earned close to the most penalties at scrum time in the competition is that really the best way to play? He forces referees into awarding penalties one way or another at a lot of scrums.

I think the Reds would do better off their own scrum ball if more often they just looked to create a good platform to attack from rather than trying to win a penalty before attempting to play the ball. When the scrum gets that messy it rarely leads to good ball even if they have penalty advantage.

By all means, go like crazy at the opposition ball and when you have a scrum feed inside your own 22 but in the opposition half, set a good platform to attack from and let the backs have a crack.

 

[PhilClinton]

Yep fair point Braveheart regarding scrum dominance and Reds lack of wins, that has been largely due to backs not executing after a good forward platform, in my opinion. I think you need to chase the scrum penalty each time though when you've got a dominant scrum. Obviously the hope being the opposition end up with a yellow card.

I remember a few games last year where I thought the Reds were very hard done by and drew repeated scrum infringements and not drawing some cheese from the ref.