Super Rugby AU Round 2 - Reds vs Rebels

[molman]

To my mind ASY (Angus Scott-Young) is a very traditional, even old fashioned rugby player. He plays extremely tight, which means he takes these head down/grindy carries that rarely dent the line.

However he’s good for that exact reason in that he never gets pinged with the ball, always recycles quickly, cleans well and just never leaves channel 1. In many ways it’s very unusual the way he plays and I think it’s why Thorn wants to explore him as a lock.

Also he is the best natural hitter at the Reds in the forwards (Paisami/Sautia are different types of athletic hitters) where Wrongerz described him as having the “sharpest shoulders” in the squad.

He’s definitely unfashionable, but he’s the type of bloke every pack needs. Reminds me of ex league player, Andrew “Bobcat” Ryan.



Sorry Bobby, should have been clearer. I was curious what you saw from ASY (Angus Scott-Young) in this game (not as a player overall) to list him as notable. I don't disagree with your assessment in the holistic sense.


Just in this game I just really didn't think he was noteworthy at all. I even recall one ruck that had well and truely formed, ASY (Angus Scott-Young) decided to go in for some useless shirt pulling and then ended up flopped over lying on top of the ruck committing himself unnecessarily such that when the play soon moved on he was still to get back. I don't know, maybe he was just keen for a lie-down.



I just think he had a very average game all up, where the best you could say is he generally did his job and didn't make any real mistakes. Noteworthy performance, I think I'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Bobby Sands]



Sorry Bobby, should have been clearer. I was curious what you saw from ASY (Angus Scott-Young) in this game (not as a player overall) to list him as notable. I don't disagree with your assessment in the holistic sense.


Just in this game I just really didn't think he was noteworthy at all. I even recall one ruck that had well and truely formed, ASY (Angus Scott-Young) decided to go in for some useless shirt pulling and then ended up flopped over lying on top of the ruck committing himself unnecessarily such that when the play soon moved on he was still to get back. I don't know, maybe he was just keen for a lie-down.



I just think he had a very average game all up, where the best you could say is he generally did his job and didn't make any real mistakes. Noteworthy performance, I think I'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Wet, grindy game, and he just stayed closed to the ruck and didn’t make any mistakes. About all you can ask I think!

He isn’t super fast, or dynamic at the breakdown - but he shifts bodies & cleans rucks. Very important in my opinion.

The stat I would want to see is not carries or tackles, but how many rucks he attended.

 

[Froggy]

On the draw, back in the day extra time was just that, 10 minutes each way, no golden point.
Armidale City won a GF against Robb College, I think about 1980, scoring two tries in extra time after being equal after 80 minutes.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Well I sat down looking forward to a great or a good game of rugby, and realised I had to give a bit of leeway because of weather but f*** me, that was pretty ordinary, especially first half. I had the feeling that both teams tried but had not a lot of rugby nous!! When the highlights of a game seem to be a couple of hard hits it time to look at what's happening. I usually get a little bit of fun poked at me because I always positive and I a rugby tragic, but even I said to son who wandered out a couple of times , don't bother. Let's be honest Reds had a very good scrum, Wright and Wilson look ver good prospects in the loose, I like the 9, but really the rest are seem barely super standard, though I do think JOC (James O'Connor) is usually good. As for the extra time what a load of shit that was, as expected both teams just tried to make sure they kicked to other end of the field so they didn't let other team have an attempt at goal. I am a bit disappointed this morning thinking on it, and not just because I was supporting the Reds and wanted them to win!

Vast difference from the Saders and Blue’s game. How bloody good was that.

 

[Dan54]

Vast difference from the Saders and Blue’s game. How bloody good was that.

Although I agree RR, I am making a point of not trying to compare both comps.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Although I agree RR, I am making a point of not trying to compare both comps.

What is comforting is that Australian rugby has a benchmark.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yep BH, I was frustrated as I said in earlir post I was giving payers leeway with wet weather, but I struggle to give same for lack of rugby nous!! Has everyone over here forgotten how to manipulate a defence and put put players into GAPS with a pass etc?? Thewhole point of playing the game is for 14 players to manipulate or control the opposite 15, so you can hopefully put a teammate into a undefended space, seems to much credence given to running/bashing over top of people, and rugby is poorer for it!

Dan, it seems to me that the type of manipulation you're talking about is first and foremost the role of the No 10 in managing the attack. The lack of that ability in some teams is sad commentary on the skills of the players in the 10 spots primarily. Both games this weekend contained four very poor performances from the 10s. Three, JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua and Lance seem to think they have to kick the pill every time they get their hands on it, while the fourth, Harrison, is simply a move the ball along to the next player outside him. He did not create a single opportunity for one of his outside players.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Also that pass from JOC (James O'Connor) to Daugunu for the Reds try looked forward to me (thought it at the time). Went back and rewatched and it's pretty hard to argue it didn't.

Either way I think Wessels will be filthy that his team lost that game.

4m forward if you watch its projectory in relation to the 5m line. Terrible error by the officials.

 

[qwerty51]

Do we have to do this again? It doesn't matter where the ball ended up - it was backwards out of the hands.

 

[TSR]

Checked the result today. Apparently it’s still being credited as a try.

 

[eastman]

Dan, it seems to me that the type of manipulation you're talking about is first and foremost the role of the No 10 in managing the attack. The lack of that ability in some teams is sad commentary on the skills of the players in the 10 spots primarily. Both games this weekend contained four very poor performances from the 10s. Three, JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua and Lance seem to think they have to kick the pill every time they get their hands on it, while the fourth, Harrison, is simply a move the ball along to the next player outside him. He did not create a single opportunity for one of his outside players.

Agreed- proper 'ball players' are a rare breed in Australian rugby. It's probably a result of the highly structured rugby that is favoured at junior levels, and especially at the higher levels, that has led to coaches selecting a certain style of fly half that play deep, distribute early and generally have a big boot (when not under pressure).

It a risk-averse approach that rewards players who can play to simple structures, and doesn't favour 'riskier' ball players, who can read numbers, identify opportunities and take the ball to the line but also come with a higher error rate.

As a result we end up with a lot of players like Reece Hodge and Kyle Godwin, as 'star' schoolboy fly halves who lack the rugby nous to succeed in the position at the highest level.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Well I'm glad I didn't jump into the car and head over to the dark side.

Dear me I thought last week was shocking, I saw better skills from the under 14's down at Queens Park yesterday. Well another one to completely erase from the mind.

At least the scrum was good.

Surely we can only get better from here

 

[Dan54]

Agreed- proper 'ball players' are a rare breed in Australian rugby. It's probably a result of the highly structured rugby that is favoured at junior levels, and especially at the higher levels, that has led to coaches selecting a certain style of fly half that play deep, distribute early and generally have a big boot (when not under pressure).

It a risk-averse approach that rewards players who can play to simple structures, and doesn't favour 'riskier' ball players, who can read numbers, identify opportunities and take the ball to the line but also come with a higher error rate.

As a result we end up with a lot of players like Reece Hodge and Kyle Godwin, as 'star' schoolboy fly halves who lack the rugby nous to succeed in the position at the highest level.

Really do agree with this so much eastman, I think there a mile too much structure in the young fella's game. While not trying to compare countries I have actually noted a few times , when a NZ player (and Hoskin Sotutu was a case a couple of weeks back) are asked why they went well etc in game after MOTM performance often the answer is, not sure I just try to do my core role jobs well, and let the rest take care of itself. Now the reason I say that, if we teach our young players here the most important thing to learn is your core skills, then you can do them automatically and that is what allows you to play with freedom, and also makes you a better team player than one who knows how to set up this or that move!
Ok my rant for morning

 

[Scooter]

I was messaging a mate over the weekend about Richie Mo'unga's kickoff. I said an Australian player wouldn't do that because they are too structured and wouldn't identify the opportunity. If he did identify the opportunity he wouldn't have the skills to do it. The kick would either not go 10 metres or if it did he would knock on trying to regather.

 

[PhilClinton]

Pone Fa'amausili named Australian tighthead prop of the week by rugby.com.au

As much as I enjoyed watching the bloke run the ball, geez its not really the primary job of the prop. He got minced time and time again in the scrum and was gassed and subbed off after 50mins. No doubt he will improve but naming him as the best prop of the weekend when he didn't do his primary job of scrumming really misses the mark for mine. If Australian rugby fans just want props who are big boys and run the ball hard, don't bother expecting any silverware for a long time.

 

[RedsRugbyfan101]

I was messaging a mate over the weekend about Richie Mo'unga's kickoff. I said an Australian player wouldn't do that because they are too structured and wouldn't identify the opportunity. If he did identify the opportunity he wouldn't have the skills to do it. The kick would either not go 10 metres or if it did he would knock on trying to regather.

The NSW Country Eagles did it in an NRC Match a year or two back - Clip is on the Rugbycomau twitter page

 

[Braveheart81]

Pone Fa'amausili named Australian tighthead prop of the week by rugby.com.au

As much as I enjoyed watching the bloke run the ball, geez its not really the primary job of the prop. He got minced time and time again in the scrum and was gassed and subbed off after 50mins. No doubt he will improve but naming him as the best prop of the weekend when he didn't do his primary job of scrumming really misses the mark for mine. If Australian rugby fans just want props who are big boys and run the ball hard, don't bother expecting any silverware for a long time.

Who should have got it then?

He ran for 48 metres, made 7 tackles and gave away one penalty. Tupou ran for 22 metres, made 5 tackles and gave away 3 penalties.

I thought Harry Johnson-Holmes had a pretty decent game and Greg Holmes had a really good cameo off the bench but I wouldn't have named either of them as the THP player of the week.

 

[Braveheart81]

The NSW Country Eagles did it in an NRC Match a year or two back - Clip is on the Rugbycomau twitter page

The player who did it was a New Zealander though

 

[PhilClinton]

Who should have got it then?

He ran for 48 metres, made 7 tackles and gave away one penalty. Tupou ran for 22 metres, made 5 tackles and gave away 3 penalties.

I thought Harry Johnson-Holmes had a pretty decent game and Greg Holmes had a really good cameo off the bench but I wouldn't have named either of them as the THP player of the week.

Why should running metres be any sort of indicator for whether a prop has a good game or not? If you're Dave Rennie picking an Aussie side off last weeks games, you're not taking Pone as your first choice tighthead prop, you'd lose every scrum.

You would pick one of the other three guys you mentioned who actually had good games doing what they're supposed to do and that is hold the scrum up.

 

[Braveheart81]

Why should running metres be any sort of indicator for whether a prop has a good game or not? If you're Dave Rennie picking an Aussie side off last weeks games, you're not taking Pone as your first choice tighthead prop, you'd lose every scrum.

You would pick one of the other three guys you mentioned who actually had good games doing what they're supposed to do and that is hold the scrum up.

All the stats are relevant.

The Reds dominant scrum didn't prevent the Rebels retaining possession on their own scrums generally and the Reds still gave away penalties at scrum time. Did Tupou have a good game? Giving away 3 penalties is more costly than giving away 1 even if you helped make your scrum dominant.

There were penalties at scrum time both ways in the Tahs vs Force game.

Being the best performed player in your position in a week doesn't mean you'd be selected by the test coach. He was pretty obviously the best THP among the two games for his contribution across the park.