Super Rugby AU Round 2 - Reds vs Rebels

[barbarian]

I agree on Super Time. We should make it golden try or get rid of it. Even in dry weather I'd imagine teams would try and play field position and keep kicking it. The risk of playing from your own half is too great.

Golden try would see a similar result IMO. The risk of a turnover in your own half is just too high.

Teams get really conservative playing NRL Golden Point as well, it tends to be a lot of one-out hit-ups and then a field goal attempt if a team is in range. Never champagne stuff.

The only thing I can think of that would make a tangible difference is a statement by RA that in Super Time the attacking team will receive the benefit of the doubt on all decisions. Referees will reward intent. Offside lines will be harshly policed, as well as tacklers not rolling. Basically if you are having a crack you won't get pinged if one of your cleaners slips and goes off his feet, etc etc

 

[Cancelled Account]

Thought the second half was incredibly entertaining.

Great contact, thoroughly enjoyed it.

Thought we deserved it - but happy with draw.

Rebels prop (Pone) was great fun to watch. Wrongez ears were monumental.

Bobby. I’d be interested to see your overview of the players after last night’s performance.

 

[Braveheart81]

Golden try would see a similar result IMO. The risk of a turnover in your own half is just too high.

Teams get really conservative playing NRL Golden Point as well, it tends to be a lot of one-out hit-ups and then a field goal attempt if a team is in range. Never champagne stuff.

The only thing I can think of that would make a tangible difference is a statement by RA that in Super Time the attacking team will receive the benefit of the doubt on all decisions. Referees will reward intent. Offside lines will be harshly policed, as well as tacklers not rolling. Basically if you are having a crack you won't get pinged if one of your cleaners slips and goes off his feet, etc etc

Good point.

Maybe we make it similar to ice hockey? If it goes to extra time, the loser still gets 2 points for the draw and the winner either gets 4 points for a normal win or 3 points if we decide that we can't have more than 5 competition points for a single game. Could even mix it up by making it 3-2 if the winner wins through a penalty or drop goal and 4-1 if the winner wins through a try.

The small downside in ice hockey from this system is that teams get conservative late in games if the score is tied but I don't see that being much of a problem in rugby because we're rarely in that situation.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah that's a great idea.

 

[Dan54]

From my couch Reb 3 should have been YC or RC for a shoulder charge - clear and simple. Arms were a mile behind his shoulder and were never going to meet the player at the same time as his shoulder.

Swinton last week got away with two similar shots.

I think our teams would find overseas refs officiating those contacts very differently

Yep but as a Reds man I wondered for a minute or two about that too, but decided when our 13 only got a yellow for a swinging arm that connected flush on jaw and concussed Korobite I would just leave it

 

[Sully]

I have never understood the reasoning behind trying to force a result if it's not a final. The Reds and the Rebels appeared to be evenly matched overall so what's the problem with a draw?

 

[Dan54]

The second half was a little better but that first half was about the most dire rugby I have ever seen.

Hopeless and clueless.

Literally no winners last night, especially the fans who watched it.

Yep BH, I was frustrated as I said in earlir post I was giving payers leeway with wet weather, but I struggle to give same for lack of rugby nous!! Has everyone over here forgotten how to manipulate a defence and put put players into GAPS with a pass etc?? Thewhole point of playing the game is for 14 players to manipulate or control the opposite 15, so you can hopefully put a teammate into a undefended space, seems to much credence given to running/bashing over top of people, and rugby is poorer for it!

 

[Braveheart81]

I have never understood the reasoning behind trying to force a result if it's not a final. The Reds and the Rebels appeared to be evenly matched overall so what's the problem with a draw?

I hate golden point in NRL. I don't really understand why that is better than a draw.

Obviously in finals you have to decide a winner but otherwise, why?

If a draw feels like a hollow finish, golden point is every bit as hollow whether your teams wins or loses it. You may as well flip a coin 10 times to pick the winner and if it is 5-5 it stays a draw.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I hate golden point in NRL. I don't really understand why that is better than a draw.

Obviously in finals you have to decide a winner but otherwise, why?

100%

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Is he? I thought he had played rugby for Moorabbin since juniors.

They mentioned it on the broadcast last night. But hey. Happy to be wrong.

 

[Wilson]

Good point.

Maybe we make it similar to ice hockey? If it goes to extra time, the loser still gets 2 points for the draw and the winner either gets 4 points for a normal win or 3 points if we decide that we can't have more than 5 competition points for a single game. Could even mix it up by making it 3-2 if the winner wins through a penalty or drop goal and 4-1 if the winner wins through a try.

The small downside in ice hockey from this system is that teams get conservative late in games if the score is tied but I don't see that being much of a problem in rugby because we're rarely in that situation.

I do like the different competition points for extra time, respecting the fact that each team had 'earned' those draw points by full time.

Otherwise I don't really have a huge issue with the golden point, even if it does lead to these kicking duels. As a fan it was very tense and was definitely engaged, despite the quality of the rest of the game. As far as neutrals go they had probably turned off already, but if the game had been good it would've added to the experience, as it does in league when it comes at the end of decent game. It also generally helps to generate coverage for the game and is the sort of thing that'll help a game secure the back page, as long as we can get to the point we're in contention for it.

If we really want the play exciting in then golden try + a touch football style drop off, but that is very artificial and I generally think we'd do better to get the general balance of officiating and laws right then tinkering with how the game is played for extra time alone.

 

[molman]

I had the feeling that both teams tried but had not a lot of rugby nous!!

Trying to look at the positives, I do think that there was the right spirit in defence which you could see boiled over into a lot of niggle at times. I really liked that element of attitude and thought some of the defence work was good. I thought the Rebels in that first 5-10mins actually looked decent when they just kept it tight, short passes, the forwards backed up well and they got some good payoff from the approach, if not the try they needed. I liked what I saw of Kellaway, he has a level head and good awareness, made a critical tackle or two. Rebels set play off the lineout for Hodge was a joy to watch and shows what is possible when it is all humming. Fa’amausili was also entertaining to watch.



I like what I saw from CFS for the Reds and the young boys like Wilson, McReight generally impressed me again. Whilst I have big question marks over him as a 10, JOC (James O'Connor) did a lot of cover in the backfield and showed good game awareness at times. The Red's scrum is generally looking like an asset, though I was sad to see them not adjust to how it was being refereed and the early shove was pretty obvious, whether that was the Rebels playing games and getting away with it or not, you need leadership in making the required changes. I wouldn't write off Jock Campbell yet as some are suggesting.



There are just so many elements of that game that were sloppy though. Both teams were offside often. Players would latch to other players but end up ahead of the ball player going into contact. There were dummy (or unused option) runners who created partial obstructions at times. The gate seemed a little wide at times. The lineout really should be sorted by now. The not throwing straight is not good enough. Some of the passing was just so poor. Louwrens had some real wobblers from the base and some of the general play passing was so off the mark. Much of the general attacking patterns were scrappy with players seemingly unable to adjust to the conditions, pushing silly passes - thought I was watching pingpong at times. Whilst equally there were opportunities that seemed to go begging. Both teams also seemed unable to effectively bring certain players into the game. Players like Koroibete seem to have to go hunting for the ball too often.

Also that pass from JOC (James O'Connor) to Daugunu for the Reds try looked forward to me (thought it at the time). Went back and rewatched and it's pretty hard to argue it didn't.

Either way I think Wessels will be filthy that his team lost that game.

 

[Hawko]

Also that pass from JOC (James O'Connor) to Daugunu for the Reds try looked forward to me (thought it at the time). Went back and rewatched and it's pretty hard to argue it didn't.

Either way I think Wessels will be filthy that his team lost that game.

I agree. It looked forward out of the hands but our pre-eminent TMO George Ayoub said it was fine.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Bobby. I’d be interested to see your overview of the players after last night’s performance.

Thanks mate.

Although much harder to glean any insights when the game is so sloppy. I’ll try later on.

But players I liked beyond the obvious were; Pone, Stolberg, Kemeny, ASY (Angus Scott-Young), Hardwick, Magnay, Jock.

In saying that I think our back row was classier & it frustrates the Rebs. Thought BPA was incredibly lazy, and at one point he was on the wing for what appeared to be two or three minutes.

Lineout is a real issue, but Lukhan looked very good at times as a target.

Sautia was simply outstanding and needs to start. Is in career best form, and is playing with a confidence & meanness I haven’t seen before. Great to see.

 

[Braveheart81]

I thought it was marginally forward. It certainly ended up a metre or two in front of where he passed it from and he wasn't really moving in a forwards direction when he threw it so it shouldn't have drifted forward without also leaving the hands going forward.

That said though, the on field referee awarded a try and it wasn't obviously forward so I am happy with that adjudication. This is better than passes that were fine getting called forward by the TMO I think. Only turning down the awarded try when it is clear and obvious seems better overall to me.

 

[molman]

But players I liked beyond the obvious were; Pone, Stolberg, Kemeny, ASY (Angus Scott-Young), Hardwick, Magnay, Jock.

Explain ASY (Angus Scott-Young) to me Bobby? What are you seeing that I'm not? I thought he was slow / lazy in getting back into the line at times, made next to no carrys / tackles and was pretty average in his supporting cleanout work. I actually though he looked a little unfit (hands on hips, knees, huffing 'n puffing).

If ESPN is to be believed he made 6 runs for 3 meters and made 4 tackles.

Magnay I thought had a good game and is worth another start. Hardwick I like, he works really hard. Stoleberg looks like he's settling in and is showing some of that promise and little bit of flair he had at the Sunwolves. Kemeny also put in a decent shift. He really stood up with some of his back to back effort.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Explain ASY (Angus Scott-Young) to me Bobby? What are you seeing that I'm not? I thought he was slow / lazy in getting back into the line at times, made next to no carrys / tackles and was pretty average in his supporting cleanout work. I actually though he looked a little unfit (hands on hips, knees, huffing 'n puffing).

If ESPN is to be believed he made 6 runs for 3 meters and made 4 tackles.

Magnay I thought had a good game and is worth another start. Hardwick I like, he works really hard. Stoleberg looks like he's settling in and is showing some of that promise and little bit of flair he had at the Sunwolves. Kemeny also put in a decent shift. He really stood up with some of his back to back effort.

To my mind ASY (Angus Scott-Young) is a very traditional, even old fashioned rugby player. He plays extremely tight, which means he takes these head down/grindy carries that rarely dent the line.

However he’s good for that exact reason in that he never gets pinged with the ball, always recycles quickly, cleans well and just never leaves channel 1. In many ways it’s very unusual the way he plays and I think it’s why Thorn wants to explore him as a lock.

Also he is the best natural hitter at the Reds in the forwards (Paisami/Sautia are different types of athletic hitters) where Wrongerz described him as having the “sharpest shoulders” in the squad.

He’s definitely unfashionable, but he’s the type of bloke every pack needs. Reminds me of ex league player, Andrew “Bobcat” Ryan.

 

[formerflanker]

If a draw feels like a hollow finish,

The absolute physical stillness and quietness on the ground by every player after the whistle tells me they feel the same way.

 

[formerflanker]

It was great to be at a live match again.
A lot of the action fortunately occurred near our bench seats and I really enjoyed hearing line out calls, shouted tactics, feeling the oomph when big hits happened near us, and being reminded how quick so many players can be.
When a big boppa winds up with ball in hand over many meters it's amazing how swiftly your pulse rate increases.
Even the kicking generated a sense of excitement - will the up and under give chasers enough time? Will the damm thing go out? Will To'omua find a receiver for his kick-pass? Wow - Hodge kicks a 50/22 right to us! (Then they lose the line out!)

The excitement of going to the rugby outweighed the many valid criticisms of the players and coaches.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Ok on the famous rules - I do like the goal line drop out and not a scrum reset - the 50/22 I like as well - I think both these rules are fine - the others not sure...bigger issue is not the rules but rustiness of players after COVID lockdown. This was not a great game to watch but because Oz local derby for local comp I will still watch it because it at least is easy to follow week to week by not playing games in the middle of the night against some SA team and also I get guaranteed at least 2 local derbies.

Still rather watch super rugby AU then the previous bullshit super rugby model which I was totally disconnected with.