Super Rugby 2022

[Wilson]

I was never predicting zero wins and show me where I said that. I simply stated I see them finishing behind kiwi sides and yeh 2 wins does not mean they finish above 5th best kiwi side ranking wise. I said I see marginal improvement for reds but more significant improvement for brumbies ie brumbies could finish in top 4. If you think reds are going to finish in top 4 then state that, as that is where sure would differ on opinion. That said it does not mean reds don’t have a chance to finish top 4 it is just that I don’t think it will happen, unless see some more dramatic improvements in some players.

You said the Reds would "challenge to even beat the 5th best kiwi side", I read that as struggle to beat them in a match, unless you just meant on the table?

I think you may be disappointed. As I reckon brumbies can challenge to be in best of the best, but reckon reds will challenge to even beat 5th best kiwi side. I just can’t see reds, rebels and tahs making too 8 personally. But on tahs I certainly expect them to be more competitive this year and hence can’t expect too much short term.

Fair enough if that's were you see them ending up on the table, I just don't see how you can call that any sort of improvement for the Reds. What I was asking though was for why you thought that about the Reds - I certainly have a bias that favors them, so it's good to get outside opinions to temper that. Unfortunately (for me at least) you detailed why you think the Brumbies will improve in response, not why you think the Reds will stay at relatively the same level as they were this year.

Personally I do see them getting ahead of at least one kiwi side on the table - I think they stand to be improved almost across the board, hooker being the only real drop with BPA gone, even then if Mafi can stay fit next season it will go along way to offsetting that, given the amount of time he spent out this year. Generally though it's a lot of young players still in the early stages of an upward trajectory with a hell of a lot of understanding building - the core of this team has 3+ years and 30-50 caps together now and so much stability in the squad going into next year. Even without major improvement the draw will be significantly kinder to them next year - no 6 day turn around into an away game against a rested opposition immediately after winning a final, not playing all 5 kiwi teams in a row.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

You said the Reds would "challenge to even beat the 5th best kiwi side", I read that as struggle to beat them in a match, unless you just meant on the table?


Fair enough if that's were you see them ending up on the table, I just don't see how you can call that any sort of improvement for the Reds. What I was asking though was for why you thought that about the Reds - I certainly have a bias that favors them, so it's good to get outside opinions to temper that. Unfortunately (for me at least) you detailed why you think the Brumbies will improve in response, not why you think the Reds will stay at relatively the same level as they were this year.

Personally I do see them getting ahead of at least one kiwi side on the table - I think they stand to be improved almost across the board, hooker being the only real drop with BPA gone, even then if Mafi can stay fit next season it will go along way to offsetting that, given the amount of time he spent out this year. Generally though it's a lot of young players still in the early stages of an upward trajectory with a hell of a lot of understanding building - the core of this team has 3+ years and 30-50 caps together now and so much stability in the squad going into next year. Even without major improvement the draw will be significantly kinder to them next year - no 6 day turn around into an away game against a rested opposition immediately after winning a final, not playing all 5 kiwi teams in a row.

Yep my whole conversation was about where on the table so yes struggling to rank higher then 5th ranked kiwi side what I was referring to.

The positive is reds largely retained same squad but you could argue given where finished last year maybe could have benefited from injection of new talent. And hence relying on improvement in the squad. Why not seeing as much room for growth is because yes relying largely solely on growth from the squad then injection of talent. And yes see some reds in wallaby squad fall behind others…Paisami, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), wilson etc. As opposed to others like say ikitau and lesser extent say swain and Samu take their game to the next level. Like I said I think it is expecting too much to see reds finish in top 4 next season..possible but yeh I don’t think likely. But sure if retain same squad and see growth 2023 maybe a different story. Yeh the only team looking at squad wise with talent loss vs gained and player squad improvement for players involved in wallabies, that have a real shot at top 4 is brumbies. Of course this is an armchair opinion and I could end up wildly wrong but that is ok as not about to put a sheep station on it. But hey is it my view and happy to see how things unfold, and of course would rather see oz sides do better then I am predicting.

 

[Dan54]

I really see an Aus side being in the top 3-4 and probably 2 in top 6, I really think too much notice has beentaken of TT this year, where Aus teams would I believe have done a lot better with a mixture of games rather than just playing each other for a round and then played kiwi teams.
I honestly believe Aus rugby isn't as bad as some of you think!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I really see an Aus side being in the top 3-4 and probably 2 in top 6, I really think too much notice has beentaken of TT this year, where Aus teams would I believe have done a lot better with a mixture of games rather than just playing each other for a round and then played kiwi teams.
I honestly believe Aus rugby isn't as bad as some of you think!

Well not far off as I see oz side in top 4 and agree 2 others in top 8. I think it is more when people call out where they see specific sides they get a little parochial.

 

[Tomikin]

I agree with Rugby Nutter

Two Wallaby fullbacks in Banks and Mogg
Three Wallaby wings in Wright, Muirhead and CFS plus a league international in Kata
A test combination of Simone and Ikitau. Simone the closest thing we have to Quade Cooper in Australia, as BR has posted.
Test halves in Loloesio and White with local boy Ione back and Lonergan back after basically being a Wallaby all year.

Arguably the best backrow in the comp with Wallabies Samu and Valetini. Young gun Scott or Brown as openside.
So many wallaby locks to choose from with Swain, Frost and Neville
Wallaby props dropping out of trees in Slipper, AAA and Sio with their answer to the Tongan Thor in Fred Kaihea there too.
And far too many Wallaby hookers to count. Well three. Plus the best young rake in the country in Pollard.

Compare that to the Reds who have no idea who will play fullback, but it'll be either moderately talented Campbell, the position-less Petaia or the over-hyped Grealy.
Wings will be Fijian and likely injured.
Centres are just a mismatch of combinations likely to happen. Its just a matter of which pedestrian centre gets matched with Paisami.
JOC (James O'Connor) on one leg is our only 10 option otherwise its the son of a legend barely out of school.
Tate is our only go to but we have the overhyped Thomas as the only alternative if something goes wrong.
It seems Wilson, McReight and Wright have all already had their career peak and are now fighting for the title of the next Ed Quirk. Our only alternative is Angus Scott-Young - or as Barbarian has called him "Red Hanigan"
We have potential at lock, but only potential.
Thor, like Tate, is a go to but the back up is a real worry while our looseheads are too over weight to contribute around the park (FF (Folau Fainga'a) and Zander) or too underweight to contribute in tight (hoopert)
none of our hookers can throw.

Bugger.

Just bring back Quade

 

[Adam84]

I really see an Aus side being in the top 3-4 and probably 2 in top 6, I really think too much notice has beentaken of TT this year, where Aus teams would I believe have done a lot better with a mixture of games rather than just playing each other for a round and then played kiwi teams.
I honestly believe Aus rugby isn't as bad as some of you think!

I don't believer Aus rugby is bad....

but I do believe there is a significant difference in resources available to super rugby teams from either side of the Tasman, Western Force CEO who is all too familiar with NZ Rugby even said he envies the financial resources available to NZ Super Rugby teams, let alone the added player depth in NZ. This difference in resources isn't something which won't simply be overcome by changing the draw....

 

[Dan54]

I don't believer Aus rugby is bad....

but I do believe there is a significant difference in resources available to super rugby teams from either side of the Tasman, Western Force CEO who is all too familiar with NZ Rugby even said he envies the financial resources available to NZ Super Rugby teams, let alone the added player depth in NZ. This difference in resources isn't something which won't simply be overcome by changing the draw....

Yep read what he said, and you right, RA needs to up it's game a bit. The main difference in resourses is NPC and players (mainly outside Test players) ability to earn some money there, as well as obviously helping with depth.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Ahh, but Reg, are you discounting the cohesion factor with your Reds? And we all know that there are only so many Wallabies in the Brumbies squad because of MacKellar's presence in the coaching team.

Mackellar > thorn (but not saying thorn bad btw just that Mackellar best super rugby coach we have)

lord Lawrie = Jim Mackay (both bloody good assistant coaches)

rest don’t know Coaching wise

Big reason also brumbies best placed rugby side in oz is they keep being no. 1 destination for talent as brumbies known for development of players with bloody good set up. Sure as heck can’t be living in Canberra which I think is a cold shit hole personally (sorry BR)

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I agree with Rugby Nutter

Two Wallaby fullbacks in Banks and Mogg
Three Wallaby wings in Wright, Muirhead and CFS plus a league international in Kata
A test combination of Simone and Ikitau. Simone the closest thing we have to Quade Cooper in Australia, as BR has posted.
Test halves in Loloesio and White with local boy Ione back and Lonergan back after basically being a Wallaby all year.

Arguably the best backrow in the comp with Wallabies Samu and Valetini. Young gun Scott or Brown as openside.
So many wallaby locks to choose from with Swain, Frost and Neville
Wallaby props dropping out of trees in Slipper, AAA and Sio with their answer to the Tongan Thor in Fred Kaihea there too.
And far too many Wallaby hookers to count. Well three. Plus the best young rake in the country in Pollard.

Compare that to the Reds who have no idea who will play fullback, but it'll be either moderately talented Campbell, the position-less Petaia or the over-hyped Grealy.
Wings will be Fijian and likely injured.
Centres are just a mismatch of combinations likely to happen. Its just a matter of which pedestrian centre gets matched with Paisami.
JOC (James O'Connor) on one leg is our only 10 option otherwise its the son of a legend barely out of school.
Tate is our only go to but we have the overhyped Thomas as the only alternative if something goes wrong.
It seems Wilson, McReight and Wright have all already had their career peak and are now fighting for the title of the next Ed Quirk. Our only alternative is Angus Scott-Young - or as Barbarian has called him "Red Hanigan"
We have potential at lock, but only potential.
Thor, like Tate, is a go to but the back up is a real worry while our looseheads are too over weight to contribute around the park (FF (Folau Fainga'a) and Zander) or too underweight to contribute in tight (hoopert)
none of our hookers can throw.

Bugger.

Good summary and more honest then i was prepared to be about the reds squad. Just too many things expecting to change / happen - like a hooker who can throw - knowing who your fullback is..a lock that actually does become world class etc etc. the positives is QLD seems to be number one place for developing rugby talent so if current squad not quite right (let’s also acknowledge despite some Shortcomings there is some bloody good talent in there as well) should be able to replace with other upcoming talent )- oh that’s right - that’s if brumbies, rebels or force don’t get them first..lol

 

[The Nomad]

Got to remember that the Kiwi teams play one another in TT Super Rugby 2022. The bottom placed teams from NZ will not see many wins against their home franchises and will be relying on how many wins they pick up from the other 7 teams for their final position on the table.

Would imagine the Reds and Brumbies are potentially the opposite of that , in that will win the majority of their local derbies and their final position on the table will be dependent on how many Kiwi scalps they manage to pick off .

 

[Brumby Runner]

Good summary and more honest then i was prepared to be about the reds squad. Just too many things expecting to change / happen - like a hooker who can throw - knowing who your fullback is..a lock that actually does become world class etc etc. the positives is QLD seems to be number one place for developing rugby talent so if current squad not quite right (let’s also acknowledge despite some Shortcomings there is some bloody good talent in there as well) should be able to replace with other upcoming talent - oh that’s right - that’s if brumbies, rebels or force don’t get them first..lol

RN I really don't think Reg posted what he really thinks. Sarcasm, irony or just plain argumentative, I think it was meant to be a wind up.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

RN I really don't think Reg posted what he really thinks. Sarcasm, irony or just plain argumentative, I think it was meant to be a wind up.

He does enjoy stirring the pot....I thought it was accurate though.....ps maybe RR should do same write up for Rebels, Tahs and Force (latter if he is really game)....I would at least enjoy reading it....sarcasm or not...

 

[Dan54]

Got to remember that the Kiwi teams play one another in TT Super Rugby 2022. The bottom placed teams from NZ will not see many wins against their home franchises and will be relying on how many wins they pick up from the other 7 teams for their final position on the table.

Would imagine the Reds and Brumbies are potentially the opposite of that , in that will win the majority of their local derbies and their final position on the table will be dependent on how many Kiwi scalps they manage to pick off .

Exactly Nomad, why I believe it won't be quite as one sided as some have indicated.

 

[Pfitzy]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447863738611077125

 

[Pfitzy]

 

[kiap]

Do twittering rugby clubs have more followers than their players? e.g.

https://mobile.twitter.com/QuadeCooper

Are followers,… like money?

Are they real?

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Is Twitter or Facebook the better social media tool for sports clubs?

 

[KOB1987]

Is Twitter or Facebook the better social media tool for sports clubs?

C) None of the above

For an amateur outfit I'd say Facebook, for a pro one I'd say Twitter.

 

[Pfitzy]

Is Twitter or Facebook the better social media tool for sports clubs?

Depends who you're pitching to. FB for old people according to my teens i.e. "people your age, Dad"

Instagram for the young. Twitter for the weird middle ground.

For an amateur outfit I'd say Facebook, for a pro one I'd say Twitter.

Yep agree - FB for amateur clubs is also valuable as a communications tool. The issue as I hint above : younger players aren't using FB.

 

[Pfitzy]

https://twitter.com/MoanaPasifika_

Give 'em a follow