Storm in a teacup, or more serious?

[Gnostic]

I highly doubt ASIC will be interested. At best this seems like a minor breach of the Corps Act for a relative pittance. They don't have the resources to look at such minor issues.



My point was that NSWRU is highly unlikely to pursue the matter further because it would be damaging to their reputation. They have nothing to gain.



Worboys has also left the NSWRU.

Public interest is a big reason and a reason why NSW lost a Premier because he lied about a $3K bottle of wine.

It doesn't matter if they have left the NSWRU NFJ still holds CEO position with his new employer, does Worboys now hold a similar position. If they are guilty of a $5 misappropriation of funds it legally disqualifies them from office.

If a cost benefit analysis is applied and they are not investigated it adds fuel to the growing fire that the Law is applied only to lower socio-economic groups. The system itself loses integrity and standing.

 

[Gnostic]

This incident, the Brumbies Fiasco and the "pissing up the wall" of the RWC2003 money and all other funding arguments have me in total support for the dissolving/re-constitution of all the Unions and the movement of the game to an Independent Commission governance model.

Lets get rid of the parochialism. An Independent Commission is the one way I can see to immediately remove the politicking and game playing, the self interest and move the game forward as a cohesive unit with transparency and accountability.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Public interest is a big reason and a reason why NSW lost a Premier because he lied about a $3K bottle of wine.

It doesn't matter if they have left the NSWRU NFJ still holds CEO position with his new employer, does Worboys now hold a similar position. If they are guilty of a $5 misappropriation of funds it legally disqualifies them from office.

If a cost benefit analysis is applied and they are not investigated it adds fuel to the growing fire that the Law is applied only to lower socio-economic groups. The system itself loses integrity and standing.

I had a chat with someone last night who has dished out some of these grants in an unrelated but similar field at sate and federal level.

This sort of thing (directors giving loans, money being used for purpose it's not intended for) is absolutely rife, especially amongst the smaller community sectors and non-profits

She said something along the lines of, "if we stopped giving money to organisations who let things like this happen, then there wouldn't be anyone left to give the money too."

She couldn't think of anyone facing any sanctions for it, especially where the money isn't lost to the program - ie the loan is paid back.

It just wasn't seen as something worth dedicating resources to.

 

[Braveheart81]

Public interest is a big reason and a reason why NSW lost a Premier because he lied about a $3K bottle of wine.

It doesn't matter if they have left the NSWRU NFJ still holds CEO position with his new employer, does Worboys now hold a similar position. If they are guilty of a $5 misappropriation of funds it legally disqualifies them from office.

If a cost benefit analysis is applied and they are not investigated it adds fuel to the growing fire that the Law is applied only to lower socio-economic groups. The system itself loses integrity and standing.

Politics is a different kettle of fish. BOF resigned. If he hadn't his party would have voted in a new leader. No action was taken against him legally.

Yes, NFJ is a CEO of his organisation. I am saying that there is almost no chance ASIC will try and pursue a matter that at best is a minor breach of the Corps Act and would almost certainly not disqualify someone from being a director.

In terms of law enforcement, that is entirely true. White collar crime fighters (such as ASIC) are massively under-resourced on a relative basis to the Police. Most breaches of the Corps Act are civil penalties only as well.

 

[fatprop]

Public interest is a big reason and a reason why NSW lost a Premier because he lied about a $3K bottle of wine.

It doesn't matter if they have left the NSWRU NFJ still holds CEO position with his new employer, does Worboys now hold a similar position. If they are guilty of a $5 misappropriation of funds it legally disqualifies them from office.

If a cost benefit analysis is applied and they are not investigated it adds fuel to the growing fire that the Law is applied only to lower socio-economic groups. The system itself loses integrity and standing.

Big difference between a elected public official and NFJ

Misappropriation of funds it legally disqualifies them from office

But not from running a business, in the real world it is only used to get rid of people the boss\the board wants out, if you are performing, it is sorted out

NFJ works as a "director" for a funds manager, if he is bringing in enough revenue\deals, he could eat babies for lunch and they wouldn't care.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Gnostic I never expected you to be one to just spew populist views detached from the benefit they create.

What is the purpose of an "independent commission" and how does it change from the status quo?

It was required for AFL and NRL as the codes were ran by the competitions that formed the professional game. Those competitions were made up of clubs that only chose to act in their own interest. If the majority was based in Sydney in the NRL's case, the game would only do what Sydney wanted.

The ARU already has an Interdependent Board of Directors which has 16 votes spread across each state with the traditional power base, NSW & QLD sharing 6 votes.

The non-heartland states of WA, Vic, NT, SA and Tas have combined votes of 7 of the 16. That's pretty reasonable voting power for areas that make up a smaller part of the game base.

The only reason QLD & NSW have more votes than any other state is their participation totals allows them to have 1 vote for more than the required number of participants.

What change will an "independent" commission bring?

Surely this is surgery for a scratch. Merely altering the voting rights (which were already altered to take power away from QLD & NSW in 2012) by taking away the participation vote or something similar would be the only necessary change.

And who would be appointed that would change anything? It would be people representative of the same aspects of the game.

 

[Gnostic]

TWS - I don't see how an Independent Commission is a populist View. I see it as the only valid solution to the constant in-fighting between the current parties we have. It is a situation where none of the protagonists can say this is for "your" benefit. Every single rugby organisation in Australia is tainted with mismanagement and/or the odour of outright corruption. The only way forward I can see that doesn't bring a further disintegration of the support base.

 

[Gnostic]

Big difference between a elected public official and NFJ







But not from running a business, in the real world it is only used to get rid of people the boss\the board wants out, if you are performing, it is sorted out



NFJ works as a "director" for a funds manager, if he is bringing in enough revenue\deals, he could eat babies for lunch and they wouldn't care.

If the business is incorporated he would be disqualified if convicted of any offence of "dishonesty" its in the declaration.

As for the Law and the uneven application of it, it is a big reason for the Brexit, Trump and Hanson phenomena. I have appeared before courts in this country from the Lower to State Supreme and my contempt for the application and the practitioners is pretty much complete. The injustice and inequity makes this seem miniscule by comparison, but it is a matter of ethics and a "robust" system.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It's populist view because it implies change but doesn't really offer how that will change anything.

So we take the power away from the organisations are are essentially run to achieve the goal in their regions?

If we went to an NRL style commission, based on those likely to find themselves on a rugby independent commission (i.e. people with an interest in the game) we are more than likely going to go back to the Pre-2012 situation where power concentrates with QLD and NSW again.

The AFL and NRL needed theirs because their clubs were their stakeholders, and were concentrated in one region. Therefore generally any decisions favoured that region.

Rugby doesn't have this, and the bodies that are represented actually have a greater interest in the grassroots level than AFL or NRL clubs have ever had.

 

[Scrubber2050]

If the business is incorporated he would be disqualified if convicted of any offence of "dishonesty" its in the declaration.

As for the Law and the uneven application of it, it is a big reason for the Brexit, Trump and Hanson phenomena. I have appeared before courts in this country from the Lower to State Supreme and my contempt for the application and the practitioners is pretty much complete. The injustice and inequity makes this seem miniscule by comparison, but it is a matter of ethics and a "robust" system.

AND:

if the powers that be have enough venom against you to have you hanged, drawn and quartered.

 

[fatprop]

If the business is incorporated he would be disqualified if convicted of any offence of "dishonesty" its in the declaration.

As for the Law and the uneven application of it, it is a big reason for the Brexit, Trump and Hanson phenomena. I have appeared before courts in this country from the Lower to State Supreme and my contempt for the application and the practitioners is pretty much complete. The injustice and inequity makes this seem miniscule by comparison, but it is a matter of ethics and a "robust" system.

Yeah, great, won't happen, the NSWRU aren't going to take it further and the money was returned

 

[ACT Crusader]

HJ - Ironic timing with your comment!

Actually AFP investigation is still on going; but..

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act...til-it-talks-to-club-aru-20161107-gsjo2x.html

The key difference with the NSW matter is Commonwealth v state (territory) money. Commonweath don't give up nor ignore when it comes to federal money. PM&C get rather pissy about their money (and PM&C being "the" flagship department makes it worse!) and worst thing that can happen to NSW Rugby is the one one hell that all commonwealth public servants fear; The ANAO comes a'knocking!

A months worth of colonoscopy's is less intrusive and more pleasant than an ANAO audit. Criminally is one thing, but the issue now with grant management, governance and accountability Commonwealth agencies may now impose my be a bigger penalty.

Commonwealth Grants Rules and Guidelines

Grants are widely used to achieve government policy objectives, involving the payment of billions of dollars each year to the non-government sector. Grants provide significant benefits to many Australians, through the Government working in partnership with individuals and organisations to deliver outcomes for the Australian public.
The Australian Government grants policy framework applies to all non-corporate Commonwealth entities (entities) subject to the Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 (PGPA Act).
The Commonwealth Grants Rules and Guidelines (CGRGs) establish the Commonwealth grants policy framework. They contain the key legislative and policy requirements, and explain the better practice principles of grants administration. Entities then determine their own grants administration practices in accordance with the CGRGs
The CGRGs apply to grants administration performed by ministers, accountable authorities, officials as well as third parties who undertake grants administration on behalf of the Commonwealth. It is important to note that it is the responsibility of officials to advise ministers of the requirements of the CGRGs.

A major concern which has received much media attention since the election of Abbott in 2013, has been the integrity of Indigenous related programs and grants. That's why he (rightly or wrongly) brought all programs into his portfolio and department (PM&C).

There has been high profile matters of misappropriation and wilful misconduct when it came to the use of Grant monies under various Indigenous programs.

The agency won't let up on this especially given that it has received widespread coverage (even U.K. media have reported).

Whether it comes to anything that involves legal action depends on a whole range of factors that will likely come out in the internal investigation.

 

[NTT]

So, we have Corruption in Canberra and Side deals in Sydney. Way to go guys, dragging Rugby through the mud again. Throw in the disaster that is the funding of the Rebels and we can safely now say RugbyWA is not the problem child as has been portrayed in the Sydney media and by the Sydney centric "fan base".
Can't wait to hear how some of you spin the "justification" of what has been happening over there.

Get your shit together NSW!

 

[p.Tah]

Did someone say Firepower?

 

[Dave Beat]

So, we have Corruption in Canberra and Side deals in Sydney. Way to go guys, dragging Rugby through the mud again. Throw in the disaster that is the funding of the Rebels and we can safely now say RugbyWA is not the problem child as has been portrayed in the Sydney media and by the Sydney centric "fan base".
Can't wait to hear how some of you spin the "justification" of what has been happening over there.

Get your shit together NSW!

I've read a bit here
I don't think anyone remotely accepts what has happened.
Read allot about thoughts both qualified and not about how it can / will be handled - that's called speculation and doesn't condone.

Also read somewhere above about someone looking for an avatar to use;
You goose;

You say - Get your shit together NSW - Hmmm, I have taken and interest, and do more than punch letters on the key board.
I'm confident enough to say NSW are, and I am excited about what I have seen and heard - the shit is coming together.

I did try finding an ugly duckling, but alas, I'll settle with you goose.

 

[Gnostic]

Yeah, great, won't happen, the NSWRU aren't going to take it further and the money was returned

If it was the NSWRU's money that would matter. I doubt that the Fed. Government will take it further either, even though it was their money that was lent, as I am sure some back room meetings will take place to avoid such an eventuality.

NFJ has plummeted in my esteem. Ethics are non-negotiable, but I'm sure he will justify it as he is a lawyer and we know lawyers have ethics which are at best "flexible"

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If it was the NSWRU's money that would matter. I doubt that the Fed. Government will take it further either, even though it was their money that was lent, as I am sure some back room meetings will take place to avoid such an eventuality.

NFJ has plummeted in my esteem. Ethics are non-negotiable, but I'm sure he will justify it as he is a lawyer and we know lawyers have ethics which are at best "flexible"

While I like most of the post I can assure you that if he were practising as a lawyer and this came to light he would be in big trouble.
This is absolutely typical of the vested interest that bedevils rugby - look after a mate here or there with public money in the hope it can all be paid back before balance date.
Very f'ing stupid, at best.Commonwealth Auditor General might not take such a benign view and then it could stuff all the donations made on behalf of rugby clubs that go through the institution. All for a mate - who might be better helped by asking how the f he got himself into the predicament in the first place.

 

[Gnostic]

While I like most of the post I can assure you that if he were practising as a lawyer and this came to light he would be in big trouble.

This is absolutely typical of the vested interest that bedevils rugby - look after a mate here or there with public money in the hope it can all be paid back before balance date.

Very f'ing stupid, at best.Commonwealth Auditor General might not take such a benign view and then it could stuff all the donations made on behalf of rugby clubs that go through the institution. All for a mate - who might be better helped by asking how the f he got himself into the predicament in the first place.

I can assure you I have seen plenty of examples from practicing lawyers, on the record, gaming the system for the benefit of the silks.

Agree totally with the rest and why I posted I now support whole heartedly the abolition or at least sidelining of the Unions in the running of the game and the creation of an Independent Commission to run the game.

 

[Quick Hands]

Did someone say Firepower?

Surely there's no corruption or incompetence in WA?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I can assure you I have seen plenty of examples from practicing lawyers, on the record, gaming the system for the benefit of the silks.

give them my details