State of the Union (origin) discussion

[rugboy]

It might be worth revisiting the reason that SOO took off so quickly. In those far-off days, all the money and power in RL was concentrated in Sydney, television money and the poker machine palaces made sure of that. Any good young player who emerged in QLD would be poached to play in the Sydney comp and immediately became available for NSW.

The SOO concept righted this perceived injustice, and the first series was set on fire when the players showed that they were fair dinkum: lots of feeling and a fair bit of violence. Artie Beetson attacked his Parramatta team-mate Mick Cronin, and that was the start of the legend. State against state, mate against mate.

We can never, ever hope to generate the sort of emotion that was on show right from the start. Nor, I dare say, would we want to.

If this game, or series, is played, my hunch is that it won't survive very long, because it is an artificial concept. The League one is based in real historical injustice.

The big thing to remember was that no one really wanted State of Origin at the time in 1980. Clubs were against it spectators weren't keen. It was actually the push from promoters. That first series was actually played under two separate criteria NSW wouldnt agree to players going back to play for their "state of origin" they had to play for where they were currently playing club football (residency rule), so NSW was stacked. they won the first two. Only then when NSW couldn't lose the series they allowed the QLD born plays to return to play for QLD. QLD still lost but the brawls and Beetson Cronin stink was set in folklore to kick start Origin. Even the following year, in 1981 they still went back to the resident rule for the first two until NSW won again before allowing "state of origin" rules to kick in. It really was a self serving thing for the NSW club teams. It took a while to find its niche and will likely do so with Union and potential meddling with eligibility to find the sweet spot for spectators and broadcasters.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It might be worth revisiting the reason that SOO took off so quickly. In those far-off days, all the money and power in RL was concentrated in Sydney, television money and the poker machine palaces made sure of that. Any good young player who emerged in QLD would be poached to play in the Sydney comp and immediately became available for NSW.

The SOO concept righted this perceived injustice, and the first series was set on fire when the players showed that they were fair dinkum: lots of feeling and a fair bit of violence. Artie Beetson attacked his Parramatta team-mate Mick Cronin, and that was the start of the legend. State against state, mate against mate.

We can never, ever hope to generate the sort of emotion that was on show right from the start. Nor, I dare say, would we want to.

If this game, or series, is played, my hunch is that it won't survive very long, because it is an artificial concept. The League one is based in real historical injustice.

Big call and struggle to resonate with that as regardless the contest been sustained - not about to say guaranteed success but your logic as to why it won’t work I find hard to reconcile as regardless how it started the fact is it has been sustained as great rivarly and the fact is there is very strong rivarlry between NSW and QLD already in rugger. Will this build on this fair call but don't agree with your logic as to why it won't succeeed as if anything the success of NRL SOO should give it a shot in that helped to create this NSW vs QLD rivarly tribalism

 

[Adam84]

If this game, or series, is played, my hunch is that it won't survive very long, because it is an artificial concept. The League one is based in real historical injustice.

Australian sport is built on artificial concepts like the BBL and Sydney Derby between the FC and Wanderers.

State of origin isnt successful because its built on a ‘real historical injustice’, It’s loved by sports fans today because its played at the elite level and players put in every ounce of energy.

 

[Drew]

Back then they picked two teams from a Sydney comp of 12 teams (I think a few even made it from country rugby league) and a slightly weaker Brisbane comp of 8 or so, with a majority of those players being eligible for one of the two teams. We only have 5 teams, to rugbys credit there are players Ineligible for either team , being products of WA, Victoria and the ACT. And on that note, NSW already have a team, Queensland already have a team. I feel not all supporters of the 3 other teams would buy into it, just like many haven’t got into the NRC.

 

[sendit]

Ok then, lets just call it Australia GREEN and Australia GOLD and drop any reference to NSW & QLD to placate the Purists.

Having team colours, remember doing that with my kids in Under 8's. That way, no one alienated and they can all feel special.

I would 100% prefer that, if you want a wallaby trial then do it, stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole

Don’t really get the last bit though, you’re the one wanted everyone “included” and feeling special. I’m more than happy to slice and dice people out of the concept for the sake of a more authentic product

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Ok then, lets just call it Australia GREEN and Australia GOLD and drop any reference to NSW & QLD to placate the Purists.

Having team colours, remember doing that with my kids in Under 8's. That way, no one alienated and they can all feel special.

I actually quite like the idea of that. I really enjoyed the pseudo Wallabies trial at Leichardt some time back. Would be great if they could get all Wallabies eligible players involved including those based overseas via the Giteau Law. The Green & Gold Series has a ring to it as well.

 

[wamberal]

If we are dredging up ideas that might work, we could always consider going back and thinking about the Barbarians as a concept. It has some interesting attributes: firstly, the name does have a strong historical identity (which has been lost a bit along the way), secondly, there are some appealing aspects to it: for example, players are invited to play from any rugby jurisdiction, and they wear their club socks, and the team is supposed to play adventurous, attacking, rugby.


Properly promoted a three match series between an Australian 23 and a Barbarians side could be a ratings winner.

 

[VassMan]

That's sounds good. Have Kerevi and Skelton etc in the Barbarians team!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If we are dredging up ideas that might work, we could always consider going back and thinking about the Barbarians as a concept. It has some interesting attributes: firstly, the name does have a strong historical identity (which has been lost a bit along the way), secondly, there are some appealing aspects to it: for example, players are invited to play from any rugby jurisdiction, and they wear their club socks, and the team is supposed to play adventurous, attacking, rugby.


Properly promoted a three match series between an Australian 23 and a Barbarians side could be a ratings winner.

How would that be different from the Green & Gold Series. Gold could be the incumbents with the Green being those trying to knock them off. Simple and from a marketing perspective is a lot better than Wallabies vs Aus BaaBaas in my opinion.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Hey, here's an idea. We could have a series featuring the Green and Gold teams. Alongside NZ's North and South Islands with perhaps even the PI nations added in.

 

[Rebels3]

SOO works because of QLD. There is a chip on our shoulders for all things NSW despite we are the two most similar states in the country. We are the Scots to NSW’s England. Living in Victoria people think they have a rivalry with NSW but it’s more of a d$@k measuring contest than anything actually ingrained. They should not water this down, it might sound abit Neanderthal but the spectacle needs to be about guys going out there to go as close as you can without knocking each other’s head off. Not sure what it’s like in NSW but growing up if you had a friend that was a NSW supporter it was an uncomfortable experience been open about your support around origin time. We need what the boys have on the pod when the Reds play the Tahs but multiplied by 3/4x factor for once a year.

Playing for QLD is as serious as it is to play for your country. That’s the attitude that exists

 

[wamberal]

How would that be different from the Green & Gold Series. Gold could be the incumbents with the Green being those trying to knock them off. Simple and from a marketing perspective is a lot better than Wallabies vs Aus BaaBaas in my opinion.

There are three big differences. Firstly, there is a long tradition behind the Barbarians name. Secondly, some of the Baabaas could be imports (other nationalities). Thirdly, the Barbarians are pledged to play open, adventurous, running rugby.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

SOO works because of QLD. There is a chip on our shoulders for all things NSW despite we are the two most similar states in the country. We are the Scots to NSW’s England. Living in Victoria people think they have a rivalry with NSW but it’s more of a d$@k measuring contest than anything actually ingrained. They should not water this down, it might sound abit Neanderthal but the spectacle needs to be about guys going out there to go as close as you can without knocking each other’s head off. Not sure what it’s like in NSW but growing up if you had a friend that was a NSW supporter it was an uncomfortable experience been open about your support around origin time. We need what the boys have on the pod when the Reds play the Tahs but multiplied by 3/4x factor for once a year.

Playing for QLD is as serious as it is to play for your country. That’s the attitude that exists

Speaking from my personal perspective its not that red hot. Sure we like beating you but it's not an all consuming drive. But that's my perspective. Like with Rugby. I probably hate the Brumbies more than the Reds. I deeply dislike the Reds but I also respect them for all of the talent they produce. While the Brumbies sit all smug in Canberra despite being poaching bastards. As for the Vic/NSW rivalry. I've always felt it as more of a Sydney/Melbourne rivalry. And that has traditionally been more important for Melbournians than Sydneysiders.

 

[Rebels3]

Speaking from my personal perspective its not that red hot. Sure we like beating you but it's not an all consuming drive. But that's my perspective. Like with Rugby. I probably hate the Brumbies more than the Reds. I deeply dislike the Reds but I also respect them for all of the talent they produce. While the Brumbies sit all smug in Canberra despite being poaching bastards. As for the Vic/NSW rivalry. I've always felt it as more of a Sydney/Melbourne rivalry. And that has traditionally been more important for Melbournians than Sydneysiders.

Victorians for rivalry are more anti West and South Australians.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There are three big differences. Firstly, there is a long tradition behind the Barbarians name. Secondly, some of the Baabaas could be imports (other nationalities). Thirdly, the Barbarians are pledged to play open, adventurous, running rugby.

What you seem to be describing are just the traditional BaaBaas. Which are an interesting spectacle every so often when they tour but not something I could see becoming an annual thing capable of maintaining long term interest. The whole premise here is about building something that can engage not only Rugby fans but casual alike. I'm not sold on importing players for at most three games.

As for playing style. There's no reason these games couldn't be played in the same manner. Hell, look at Super Rugby Au. It's been very open and willing.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Victorians for rivalry are more anti West and South Australians.

Which is why if they go with states and Vic and WA series should be considered as well.

 

[sendit]

you're posting some quality stuff today workingclass

 

[Rebels3]

Which is why if they go with states and Vic and WA series should be considered as well.

Plus West Australians are anti everyone in all walks of life. Lol

 

[brokendown]

who did he paint?

forgot his name;one of the Australian doctors who helped rescue the Thai kids from the flooded cave,gave further insight on how it was achieved

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Plus West Australians are anti everyone in all walks of life. Lol

Having lived there for 3 years I can endorse this comment.