Springboks vs Wallabies @ Newlands 27/9/2014
- Thread starter PaarlBok
- Start date
- Status
It's classic Scott Allen.
It's just surprising that his conclusion wasn't that the player we actually needed instead of both Hooper and Hodgson was in fact Liam Gill.
Tomikin
David Codey (61)
Healthy with no game time
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Yep - it is a shame that Folau doesn't have a big and accurate boot.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I thought Scott was right in many parts. His comment about offensive rucks was a good point.
But my view is that you pick an openside flanker whose physical make-up is probably the most different of all in the back 5 and even in the pack for a reason. It's not to just hit every ruck. It's to hit those rucks that the other 7 forwards won't get to. That's why a 7 was always the quickest player in the pack in years gone by.
Some of his points were fine but then he went on to say that players like Kieran Read and Scott Higginbotham play in wider channels because that's what coaches want them to do yet wouldn't apply the same logic to Hooper.
I had a conversation on twitter where he basically said that Michael Hooper plays the way he does because it's the only way he knows how.
Apparently even if McKenzie told Hooper he wanted him to be first to more attacking breakdowns he'd be incapable of changing the way he plays.
It just makes no sense.
I had a conversation on twitter where he basically said that Michael Hooper plays the way he does because it's the only way he knows how.
Apparently even if McKenzie told Hooper he wanted him to be first to more attacking breakdowns he'd be incapable of changing the way he plays.
It just makes no sense.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Could not agree more.
Hooper plays slightly different in 2014 to how he did in 2013. Surely that's partially because of the lack of alternative running options.
I actually commented how Hooper is running the ball 3 more times per game in 2014 and has had more tackle busts than that last to Rugby Championship's combined.
More importantly, Link would keep picking him and make him captain if he wasn't playing how asked.
Breakdown work is the easiest part of the game to master. It's all technique and whilst it requires instinct, it's easier to understand than finding a hole in attack and lining up a big hit in defense.
I refuse to accept that Hooper couldn't offer significantly more impact at the breakdown is asked by his coaches.
Hooper plays slightly different in 2014 to how he did in 2013. Surely that's partially because of the lack of alternative running options.
I actually commented how Hooper is running the ball 3 more times per game in 2014 and has had more tackle busts than that last to Rugby Championship's combined.
More importantly, Link would keep picking him and make him captain if he wasn't playing how asked.
Breakdown work is the easiest part of the game to master. It's all technique and whilst it requires instinct, it's easier to understand than finding a hole in attack and lining up a big hit in defense.
I refuse to accept that Hooper couldn't offer significantly more impact at the breakdown is asked by his coaches.
The Tahs had probably the best offensive ruck work in the comp, despite apparently not having a "proper"openside, because they got off their arses, worked hard as a pack, got back into position and smashed people out of the way.
and then did it again, the key points being getting up and back into position and being available to do that clean out/running option
Frankly I see the purely on balling 7 as a dated option these days, pilfering expectations are now is spread across the team, it is usually whoever is the second unit to the breakdown, with the next couple cleaning out
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
I think his point was. Has Hooper ever played a different way? And the answer is no. He has always played out wide, for 3 different rugby teams he has played the same, whereas Higgers played a loose game for the reds and a tighter game for the Rebels.
Is he capable to play a different way? I think yes. He has all the skills plus more. But I think his current mind-set needs to change and that could be a hard thing to do IF told to play another way.
@TWAS I agree the the attacking rucks was great point. Also a surprise as I thought this was one area he was improving. I always thought defensive rucks were his weaker point - but then the stats say otherwise. Bit confused on the issue now. All I know is Hooper is a great player.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
My view, as a guy that was a tight pilfering openside (Due to lack of ability to be a wide running openside) is that if you turn the ball over, 1 pass off the ruck, it's probably the fault of number's 1-5 and maybe 8. If it's outside the 10 or 12, the openside should have been there. That's why you pick a forward the size of backs.
Tomikin
David Codey (61)
Sigh... Hooper is an amazing 7 all his work is top notch no matter what he does. He suffers from the Smith McCaw factor. He is young and probably doesn't read the game as well yet.. probably not as well as Hodgson yet, but his so quick and strong he can cover for it. It will come in time, but there are no better options. Gills been off the pace and Hodgson for his best bits ain't the player Hooper is. Poey's 2 years out of the game... It's getting old the argument.
Which is probably more to do with game plan then players selected.
Which is probably more to do with game plan then players selected.
Hooper's game has been subtly different each year. The biggest difference was the style he played at the Brumbies compared to moving to the Tahs and playing under Cheika.
He's always going to be an excellent runner and link player. Shifting his focus slightly isn't going to change that.
He has an incredible motor and would be easily the fastest forward in the country. If the coach wanted him to focus intently on being first to as many breakdowns as possible, he would achieve that a lot more often.
It is a silly argument to basically say that the guy is uncoachable which is what Scott Allen seems to be arguing. Personally I'd be thinking that he is doing what his coach wants him to and that is why he keeps getting selected and winning plenty of accolades for it.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
i Agree. I guess the debate should be "Should McKenzie be coaching Hooper to play closer to the rucks and attack rucks more often or should he continue with his current role". IMO it should depend on the opposition and how the game is playing out.
One argument I'd like to make it, when we are getting muscled at the breakdown Hooper should be the first to acknowledge this and adjust his game accordingly. Not sure this has been the case so far.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
I am a big fan of Hooper. He is unbelievably busy and has the largest "motor" I have ever seen on a rugby field.
To me, the only question marks
1. His captaincy. Young, inexperienced are both yes BUT he will improve in this area.
2. I wish he would pass the ball more often. Again, to me it seems he is generally the final recipient of the ball.
To me, the only question marks
1. His captaincy. Young, inexperienced are both yes BUT he will improve in this area.
2. I wish he would pass the ball more often. Again, to me it seems he is generally the final recipient of the ball.
Biffo
Ken Catchpole (46)
+++ to this
may i suggest that Hooper's "problem" in passing the ball is not a failing within himself.
it is very symptomatic of the appalling quality (even absence) of the Wallabies' support for the ball carrier.
how many times do we have to see blokes make breaks and half breaks and look around in vain for a support runner?
it is so bad that you'd think the line breakers (Hooper, Beale, Foley, Phipps) would not waste any more time looking for support - they must know it won't be there - and just go for it".
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Biffo - the bloke takes the ball into contact nearly every time. All I'm saying is that sometimes an offload prior to contact can reap the reward
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Biffo
Ken Catchpole (46)
don't want to argue with you - that other thread sees you destroy me
an "offload prior to contact" is not an offload, is it?
by definition, "an offload prior to contact" should be termed a pass, shouldn't it?
with no support within a cow's day walking distance, how can Hooper be expected either to offload prior to contact, pass or offload?
- Status