Springboks vs Wallabies @ Newlands 27/9/2014

[cyclopath]

The people in here have pretty much been cvnts about it. I offered to make a video of the throws (I have the games on my PC so it would only take a couple of hours) so we could have a look at them all in quick succession but the attitude displayed was "well here's an uncited stat I found that says TPN only threw 9 not straights in the 2014 Super Rugby so you're an idiot if you think TPN still has issues with his throwing."

I tried in vain over several posts to get a reasonable metric but no one wanted to offer one. It's a couple of hours I'm not interested in spending on it anymore.

Why are you banging on about a "metric" or "KPI" defined by someone else, or else you'll keep all your video to yourself?
You say you have them all, then look at them in groupings / series / seasons and look at the percentage that result in a win, or a loss, and if a loss, look at why. Not straight / long / short / just stolen by a good oppo jump.
See if the completion rate is improving over groupings, and in what areas he improves, stays the same, or gets worse.
Or just keep saying you're going to do it, but come up with more and more whiny reasons why you're not doing it because nobody is helping you work out how.
I don't care if you do it, or not. You may be right - I don't discount that. Having coded things before, the results are often not what you expect. But either do it, or shut up about it.
Please.

 

[Ulrich]

The people in here have pretty much been cvnts about it. I offered to make a video of the throws (I have the games on my PC so it would only take a couple of hours) so we could have a look at them all in quick succession but the attitude displayed was "well here's an uncited stat I found that says TPN only threw 9 not straights in the 2014 Super Rugby so you're an idiot if you think TPN still has issues with his throwing."

I tried in vain over several posts to get a reasonable metric but no one wanted to offer one. It's a couple of hours I'm not interested in spending on it anymore.

You offered to make a video. People said "go ahead".

Quit making sad excuses. Either admit you don't feel like making the video or quit lingering over TPN. I don't watch Aussie teams that much so I can't comment on the merits of the player but you can't challenge mass opinion without bringing facts to disprove that opinion.

You won't be judged for not making the video if you admit not feeling like it, but then have the decency to leave the issue and create a thread for it instead of hogging this one which is about a game between #2 and #3 in the world.

I read the entire thread from beginning to end which was 30 pages at the time on tapatalk on my mobile and having half the thread dominated by your whinging made for some real unpleasant reading.

Discuss a player and if you dispute something, prove that you are right or shut up about it.

 

[barbarian]

Good point Ulrich, think we should move on.

Can someone enlighten me as to who Mohoje is? I can't say I have ever heard of him.
.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

What everyone else said. I'm not going to pile on here, but hopefully this is the end of that fairly pointless debate about TPN.

 

[Ulrich]

Good point Ulrich, think we should move on.

Can someone enlighten me as to who Mohoje is? I can't say I have ever heard of him.
.

Hi barbarian,

Teboho "Oupa" Mohoje had some good performances for the University of Free State in the Varsity cup. I believe Meyer would have had his eye on him for a while as he is known to scout talent at a young age. Much as he had signed Pollard for the Bulls when Pollard was playing in the Western Cape and was in grade 10 at the time (2 years away from finishing school)

He got his nickname of "Oupa" in primary school at age 9 after his teacher (not sure if rugby coach) could not pronounce his name and noticed a bit of gray hairs on the kid. He dubbed him "Oupa" which means grandfather in Afrikaans. The name has stuck ever since.

 

[barbarian]

Thanks Ulrich. Is he a big bruiser type?

 

[Ulrich]

Thanks Ulrich. Is he a big bruiser type?

Think of him as a Juan Smith. Probably slightly smaller but with more pace.

 

[qwerty51]

He played quite a bit of the Cheetahs this year. He scored that amazing try off the bench vs the Crusaders.

 

[Sidbarret]

The Springbok team to face Australia in Cape Town is:
15 Willie le Roux 19 Tests, 35 points
14 Cornal Hendricks 7 Tests 25 points
13 Jan Serfontein 14 Tests 5 points
12 Jean de Villiers (captain) 100 Tests 125 points
11 Bryan Habana 101 Tests 280 points
10 Handré Pollard 4 Tests 34 points
9 Francois Hougaard 30 Tests 20 points
8 Duane Vermeulen 23 Tests 10 points
7 Teboho “Oupa” Mohoje 1 Test 0 points
6 Marcell Coetzee 20 Tests 20 points
5 Victor Matfield (vice-captain) 115 Tests 35 points
4 Eben Etzebeth 27 Tests 0 points
3 Jannie du Plessis 58 Tests 5 points
2 Adriaan Strauss 38 Tests 25 points
1 Tendai Mtawarira 59 Tests 10 points
Replacements:
16 Bismarck du Plessis 64 Tests 45 points
17 Trevor Nyakane 7 Tests 5 points
18 Marcel van der Merwe 3 Tests 0 points
19 Bakkies Botha 81 Tests 35 points
20 Schalk Burger 71 Tests 65 points
21 Cobus Reinach - uncapped
22 Pat Lambie 34 Tests 68 points
23 JP Pietersen 54 Tests 85

Not impressed.

Two forced changes with the injuries to Louw and Pienaar. Would have liked to see Whiteley starting as I think he offers something different from the other choices available. Instead he has been dropped completely for no clear reason.

The bench looks like a contractual compromise. Meyer called up Botha, Burger and Pietersen and now has to use them. I think more could have been achieved by keeping the status quo from the previous game.

 

[Ulrich]

Not impressed.

Two forced changes with the injuries to Louw and Pienaar. Would have liked to see Whiteley starting as I think he offers something different from the other choices available. Instead he has been dropped completely for no clear reason.

The bench looks like a contractual compromise. Meyer called up Botha, Burger and Pietersen and now has to use them. I think more could have been achieved by keeping the status quo from the previous game.

I understand what you're saying, but I also see it as:

Heyneke has a game plan and as such #7 is always preferred as a bigger, more traditional 7 role. Oupa has had some time now to learn the calls etc. and the comfort of playing home is a good time to develop the man.

Secondly, I really don't like Hougaard, even less than Pienaar, but he is an attacking threat and so is the new kid outside him. This provides something different.

Thirdly. We don't have a #13. JDV and JP Pietersen are the only guys who actually can play 13 and it's good to have JP in the mix although he is not a world beater in the position. It's neither player's natural position though so we're still lackimg im that area.

Last but not least, it was planned that oupa got some game time on home soil, Whiteley is a quick bloke but there's no harm in giving Mohoje a chance. Flank is the one position I feel we could throw just about anyone in there. A lot of depth.

 

[emuarse]

The people in here have pretty much been cvnts about it. I offered to make a video of the throws (I have the games on my PC so it would only take a couple of hours) so we could have a look at them all in quick succession but the attitude displayed was "well here's an uncited stat I found that says TPN only threw 9 not straights in the 2014 Super Rugby so you're an idiot if you think TPN still has issues with his throwing."

I tried in vain over several posts to get a reasonable metric but no one wanted to offer one. It's a couple of hours I'm not interested in spending on it anymore.

And fair enough too. I agree with you Lorenzo - 'fuck em', I say

 

[fatprop]

Gill, Robinson & Slipper have been feasting for 4 years at the Reds off the back of Saia's grasscuts. It's his major point of difference and it's dominant tackle where the ballcarrier is bought down and all they've had to do was bend over..

If he tempers him penalty magnet tendencies ........

 

[BDA]

Interesting to see the amount of experience Meyer is packing into his team. If this were the wallabies people would be moaning about our inability to blood younger talents. There is a lot to be said about a good mixture of old heads and young guns. In fairness to OZ rugby tho, the fact that the ARU can't select players based overseas means that we seem to lose access to our old heads earlier than SA do.

Having the likes of Botha and Burger coming off the bench would definitely fill me with confidence if I was a bok fan, but at the same time I feel this is a game that the Boks are destined to win in any event and those spots might be better used to develop the next generation. Does Meyer actually intend to select either for next year's world cup squad? I'd be surprised if he did. Not that they're over the hill, but surely both are past their best.

The boks RWC squad next year will potentially have an average age of 30+. history would say that is a bit on the old side. thoughts?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Wingers in contention:
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - back from injury and guaranteed a spot
Horne - has performed ok but
Tomane - think he brings a little more than Rob and will be in the game day squad - whether run-on or bench, its time he comes into the mix

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will be on the wings.

It would be a big call to drop Horne who has played well in every game for Tomane who is very short on football.

Tomane was healthy for the last test and Link picked Betham.

 

[Ulrich]

Missed post.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Braveheart - yeah maybe but I think Australia's long term wingers (well at least for RWC) will be Speight and Tomane. Adam is coming to the inevitable time that occurs with all players (I await plenty of criticism for that comment)

 

[Ulrich]

Interesting to see the amount of experience Meyer is packing into his team. If this were the wallabies people would be moaning about our inability to blood younger talents. There is a lot to be said about a good mixture of old heads and young guns. In fairness to OZ rugby tho, the fact that the ARU can't select players based overseas means that we seem to lose access to our old heads earlier than SA do.

Having the likes of Botha and Burger coming off the bench would definitely fill me with confidence if I was a bok fan, but at the same time I feel this is a game that the Boks are destined to win in any event and those spots might be better used to develop the next generation. Does Meyer actually intend to select either for next year's world cup squad? I'd be surprised if he did. Not that they're over the hill, but surely both are past their best.

The boks RWC squad next year will potentially have an average age of 30+. history would say that is a bit on the old side. thoughts?

Not sure on the exact average age but it would depend on who exactly makes the cut.

If all of Matfield, Bakkies, Burger, Fourie du Preez, Jacques Fourie (who is about the same age as JDV I believe) and JP Pietersen (also not old) go to England then there are an equal number of you players to offset this:

Willie le Roux
Frans Malherbe
Eben Etzebeth
Marcel Coetzee
Handre Pollard
Jan Serfontein

Those are the young guns I suspect will be there without question. There's still space for:

Trevor Nyakane
Coenie Oosthuizen
PSdT
Siya Kolisi
Reinach
JJ Engelbrecht
Cornal Hendricks

Overall I think it will balance and I suspect a large chunk of the senior players will have bench / secondary roles.

 

[Braveheart81]

Braveheart - yeah maybe but I think Australia's long term wingers (well at least for RWC) will be Speight and Tomane. Adam is coming to the inevitable time that occurs with all players (I await plenty of criticism for that comment)

Speight yes, but I think Tomane will be down the list. I would probably rate his chances of making the RWC squad as average at best.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will play before Tomane at the RWC and JOC (James O'Connor) is another likely candidate next year.

If you were looking at players between 24 and 30 for a RWC squad, Horne's form on the wing has been good and he provides utility value being able to cover 12 and 13 as well. Probably makes him a better person to carry for the RWC than Tomane who only plays on the wing.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Speight yes, but I think Tomane will be down the list. I would probably rate his chances of making the RWC squad as average at best.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will play before Tomane at the RWC and JOC (James O'Connor) is another likely candidate next year.

If you were looking at players between 24 and 30 for a RWC squad, Horne's form on the wing has been good and he provides utility value being able to cover 12 and 13 as well. Probably makes him a better person to carry for the RWC than Tomane who only plays on the wing.

good points but Horne's versaltility may make him a good candidate for a bench spot.

have to admit, I had forgotton about JOC (James O'Connor)