Springboks v Wallabies - Sunday 2 October 1am AEST - Loftus Versfeld

[Dave Beat]

So you want to drop Izzy?

As above, I'd have Izzy at 13, and KB (Kurtley Beale) at 15 with a selected back three.

Remember when we had Andrew Walker / Joe Roff working off a solid centre pairing that built off each other.

Maybe the back three is KB (Kurtley Beale) / DHP / and ??

 

[todd4]

At least one of those was chasing a kick-off so that's not bad at all.

I was going to mention that Seb V. DHP always puts in a strong kick-chase and while he doesn't always make the one-on-one tackle it serves the purpose of putting the kick-receiver under pressure.

 

[todd4]

Yeah I thought Shiggins went well too.

Just went out and played his usual game.

A match thread wouldn't be the same without a quota of Shigginisms.

 

[Joe Blow]

So you want to drop Izzy?

Others have been dropped for better performances in multiple tests. He is really lacking something at the moment. Maybe a move to the wing would be good? He looks frustrated and pressure is building on him to put out a decent performance, not a sublime one as we are accustomed to but just a performance worthy of the jersey.
He definitely is not the messiah right now. He made some really poor choices again that cost the side.

 

[Rugbybloke123]

My 2 cents... Gotta have Haylett-Petty at fullback. Game high metres, 5 tackle busts and some great defence along with return in which he always seemed to make 10 or 20 metres. I think its time to put him and fullback and folau at outside then bring the like of niavalu or spate on the wing. It would creat a much more dynamic backline who could seriously attack from anywhere. Folau understands enough about the game now to move into outside and plus the more he gets the ball the more defenders he attracts those outside him have more space. Its pretty simple in my opinion.

 

[wamberal]

Izzy is in a rut. A non-performing rut.

 

[liquor box]

Others have been dropped for better performances in multiple tests. He is really lacking something at the moment. Maybe a move to the wing would be good? He looks frustrated and pressure is building on him to put out a decent performance, not a sublime one as we are accustomed to but just a performance worthy of the jersey.
He definitely is not the messiah right now. He made some really poor choices again that cost the side.

Unfortunately the media and selectors will make him the messiah reborn if he manages even the easiest of tries.

 

[Dan54]

Surely if someone is going through a bad patch you give him a rest, don't drop someone else to try and find a place he can play!!

 

[tragic]

I still do not like Foley at 12. Kerevi was playing very good, excellent defense and made quite a few line breaks or bent the line, before he was replaced (why he was pulled at 53 minutes left me dumbfounded). Kuridrani, likewise, was very good when he came on. I'd like to see the Kerevi/Kuridrani centre combination.

Spot on.
Our backs had little penetration.
Kerevi was one of the few who was making breaks and looked threatening. Pulling him prematurely was batshit crazy and seemed pre planned.
We struggled to score against England and SAF because we lack attacking threats.
We need to inject some pace on the wings and line breaking in the centres.
Time to stop shoehorning players in out of position.

 

[Quick Hands]

I know most people hate drop goals but I think we are missing a lot of points in most of our games.

For what ever reason we are able to string multiple phases in front of the goal posts within 20-25m in most games and then we continue to do the same without scoring points.

With Foley and Cooper in the team surely we should take some points from time to time.

I would also propose that a safer bet than kicking for a penalty from 65m would be to kick for touch, win a lineout and then kick a field goal from 20m out.

Mark Ella at 25 secs. (1st test)

 

[tragic]

Actually they made the most metres in attack of any of the backs, maybe Kerevi ran more than Hodge, but they were both up there and DHP was the top runner and tackle buster according to the stats I saw.

Kerevi's yards are in crowded channels and hence are invaluable.
Being on the wing DHP and hodge's numbers are inflated by kick returns.
DHP did make some line breaks but hodge was solid without being threatening.

 

[tragic]

All this nonsense analysis of the backline really just serves to gloss over the fact that our Forwards lost us that game. We had clean ball from the lineout probably 20% of the time, clean ball from the scrum about 20% of the time and clean, fast ball from the ruck never (i'm exaggerating for emphasis). The only person delivering a decent forward performance was McMahon and it's no coincidence we failed to score a point after he went off. Our piggies fucking suck and thats the end of the story. None of Mumm,Simmons or Moore would make the bench for any other championship team. Sio finally had a good game after not making a single carry for two entire freaking games.

The backs were good enough, made some good runs, didn't fuck up defensively and missed a few very hard kicks. Lost the tactical kicking game but against Morne at altitude who's surprised?

Bullshit. 20% clean ball from set piece is just hyperbole.
The forwards didn't cover themselves in glory but they won enough possession and territory to let the show ponies do their thing.
But they didn't, because they sucked as well.
So they deserve their share of criticism.

 

[tragic]

I reckon Folau is carrying an injury.

I reckon Cheika is

 

[Joe Blow]

I would bench Folau, move DHP to FB and start Niavalu. Let Folau watch the game from the side line and bring him on early in the second half. Kerevi has been one of our best at 13 and should probably stay there.
DHP is making a strong case for himself and we could use some legitimate finishing out wide.

 

[cyclopath]

Bullshit. 20% clean ball from set piece is just hyperbole.
The forwards didn't cover themselves in glory but they won enough possession and territory to let the show ponies do their thing.
But they didn't, because they sucked as well.
So they deserve their share of criticism.

The backs were poor at times, so I agree. So too the forwards. Sure, we won enough possession to win the game, and yes, the attack was too easily shut down by the pretty good SA defence. The attack didn't do enough, and that's on both backs and forwards (in this day and age, they all have to know how to attack - witness the offload game of the All Blacks, for instance).
But the area of critical weakness that stood out for me last night was the woeful level of support for the ball runner / carrier. Good attacking forays snuffed by a turnover where the Wallabies showed ineffectual presence on their attacking ball. They don't seem to attack with a plan, a common purpose.
Cheika worked a plan at the Waratahs with pods of forwards working as a unit, with ball runners supported by players on their hip ready to add drive or cleanout. It doesn't happen at the Wallabies, but it does happen with the All Blacks. So is the plan flawed? For the Wallabies, yes. Either the players are just not there, or they can't do what is wanted, and thus for these players, it is flawed. For me it's a coaching and player issue. I don't think the model is flawed, but clearly they can't do it at the moment. So the coaching staff should adapt. They aren't.
This game pissed me off. They should have been able to win it reasonably comfortably, with all due respect to the Sprinbokke, who were just a bit less mediocre than us. That said, the Bokke deserved the win, which is a damning indictment on the Wallabies. Chance to make some history pissed away.

 

[tragic]

I would bench Folau, move DHP to FB and start Niavalu. Let Folau watch the game from the side line and bring him on early in the second half. Kerevi has been one of our best at 13 and should probably stay there.
DHP is making a strong case for himself and we could use some legitimate finishing out wide.

I'd rather bench foley and move Kerevi in one. He's just as good at 12. I'd like to see kerevi/folau midfield with hodge and DHP competing for the FB/bench spot.
Bring some Fijian pace and finishing in to the wings.
Not all at once but that's what I'd be working towards.

 

[Dave Beat]

Mark Ella at 25 secs. (1st test)

product of CHS rugby

 

[tragic]

But the area of critical weakness that stood out for me last night was the woeful level of support for the ball runner / carrier. Good attacking forays snuffed by a turnover where the Wallabies showed ineffectual presence on their attacking ball. They don't seem to attack with a plan, a common purpose.

I agree that really stood out last night.
The ABs are just so good at capitalising on line breaks - always a swarm of black jerseys in support.
We often end up isolated and then a turnover - we either run away from our support or its just not there.
Not sure if it's coaching, lack of urgency or just a lack of talent.

 

[Rugbybloke123]

Who would anyone on here put at number 8 ? play it safe with timani or bring in a bolter ? Ill throw Jed Hollaway in (think he is injured?) or the likes of Leroy Houston

 

[cyclopath]

I agree that really stood out last night.
The ABs are just so good at capitalising on line breaks - always a swarm of black jerseys in support.
We often end up isolated and then a turnover - we either run away from our support or its just not there.
Not sure if it's coaching, lack of urgency or just a lack of talent.

I think all three, to be honest. It's ingrained play for New Zealand teams, it does not seem to be for our teams.