Springboks v Wallabies - Sunday 2 October 1am AEST - Loftus Versfeld

[bigmac]

This buys into one of GAGR's delusional narratives. 'Sean McMahon hasn't made a ball-running impact'. Ha! 11 tests at Wallaby level shouldn't take me too long to research.

(0)

First Wallabies appearance for Sean, starting against the Barbarians at 6 in 2014 at Twickenham. Interestingly I can’t find any statistics for this game, but the Match report and highlight reel indicate that it was a fairly dominant performance in a very entertaining game; scored a try.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Tevita Kuridrani.
Verdict: Strong performance.

(1)

He had his test debut against Wales on 2014s Spring Tour at blinside flanker (6).

He made 15 tackles; second to only Michael Hooper on 17, and 5 clear of the next best Fainga'a/McCalman/Kuridrani on 10. He ran 4m with ball in hand (=3 within the forward pack), well short of the frontrunners Hooper and McCalman with 21 and 25 respectively. He made 3 turnovers*, second to only Bernard Foley with 4. He took 2 lineouts from our throw (behind Rob Simmons with 4, and infront of McCalman with 1).

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Bernard Foley.
Verdict: Strong performance.

(2)

He played at blindside again for the following game against France. He made 7 tackles; ranking him four out of eight in terms of tackles made. He carried the ball for 3m, ranking him fifth from eight in the forward pack in that metric, but he also ranked fifth from eight in terms of the number of carries. He took the most amount of lineouts from our throws (4), with Rob Simmons next up with 3 takes. However, Rob stole one of the oppositions throws, giving him the same amount of lineout wins overall.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: ? (certainly not Sean).
Verdict: Pass (he sat mid-pack for most metrics in a poor, losing side).

(3)

Sean missed the third game of the tour against Ireland, but was selected again for Australia's final game against England. He was once again =4 in terms of tackles made (with 5 - the frontrunner, Hooper, made 8). Once again 4th in the forward pack with 5 metres ran (the frontrunner, Hooper, made 22). He was fifth in the pack in terms of number of carries. There were 7 lineouts with our throw in the game, Simmons took 3, McMahon 2, Hooper and McCalman with 1 each.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Ben Morgan.
Verdict: Pass.

(4)

We now move onto our RWC warm-up game in 2015 against the USA Eagles in Chicago. The only starting forward to score a try, McMahon was also credited with a try assist. He ran the ball for 29m, 1st in the forwards across the starting team and the bench. The next best were McCalman and Palu with 19m each. McMahon also made 2 clean linebreaks and 1 offload (both metrics second only to Foley) and had a team high 5 defenders beaten.

He made a team high 15 tackles, the next best McCalman and Simmons with 10 each. He took no lineouts. However it is interesting to note that Douglas took 6, McCalman 3 and Simmons 1.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Sean McMahon
Verdict: Very strong performance.

(5)

Moving now to the 2015 RWC, McMahon missed selection for the opening game against Fiji, Cheika preferring the Pooper/Fardy to start and Mumm to come off the bench.

He first featured in Australia’s second game, the demolishing of Uruguay. He started at openside flanker, scoring a team high 2 tries with another 67 running metres (the best of the pack). He had two clean breaks, 5 defenders beaten and one offload.

This was topped off with a fantastic defensive effort, making a team high 13 tackles. He also took 1 lineout (Mumm taking 4, McCalman with 2, Simmons off the bench with 4).

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Sean McMahon
Verdict: Very strong performance.

(6)

He next featured against in our quarter-final against Wales, replacing Michael Hooper who was suspended for something I can’t remember.

He made a forward pack topping 19 running metres (the next highest, McCalman, had 10 off the bench). He had one clean break (only one from the pack), 1 defender beaten and 7 tackles with no misses (this places him =7/23). He took one linout.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Gareth Davies (lol?)
Verdict: A weak, strong performance.

(7)

Having not featured in the rest of the RWC, Sean McMahon came off the bench for Game 1 of our 3 test series against England this year on home turf. He was substituted onto the field at the 68 minute mark, replacing Scott Fardy.

He ran four times for 3m (interestingly it only ranks him 7 out of the 13 forwards listed), beating one defender (equal highest of any forward).

He supposedly made no tackles and took no lineouts.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: James Haskell.
Verdict: Poor performance.


(8)

In Game 2, McMahon started at Number Eight; filling the big shoes of David Pocock.

He ran 13m (5 from the 13 forwards listed), beating 3 defenders (highest of any forward). He made 5 tackles, equal highest of any forward alongside Hooper, Fardy and Moore.

He was substituted at the 51 minute mark for Ben McCalman.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Chris Robshaw.
Verdict: Strong performance for 51 minutes.

(9)

In Game 3, McMahon returned to Number Eight, and eased into the role well.

He had 12 carries for 39m, the most of any forward. He also made 14 tackles and missed none, a team high. From what the stats show and if my memory serves me, he was the pick of the forwards.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Owen Farrell.
Verdict: Strong performance.

(10)

Having not played either of the Bledisloes, Sean McMahon returned to the fold in 2016 against South Africa, being subbed on for David Pocock in the 74th minute.

Playing only six minutes, Sean carried the ball twice for 6m in total. This ranked him 4th of the listed 13 forwards.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Michael Hooper
Verdict: Pass (not enough minutes played).

(11)
Finally, in our last game against Argentina in Perth, McMahon came off the bench in the 45th minute to adopt the role of Number Eight.

He ran the ball twice for 20m, second behind only Michael Hooper in that metric on 31m. He made one clean break, and was credited with 3 defenders beaten (most of any forward).

He was credited with only three tackles.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Will Genia.
Verdict: Strong performance.

//////

So there you have it. I credited him, from stats alone (as relative to the rest of the forwards), with 8 “strong performances” or better from 11 appearances. The 2 “passes” were from his 2nd and 3rd caps, with one “poor” performance after only 12 minutes of gametime (I’m not sure if that assessment was too harsh). A lot of these were off the back of dominant running performances and strong workrate in the tackle.


These strong performances are quite remarkable considering he’s played 6, 7 and 8. I hope he can lock down a position and cement a spot in the team soon. As most posters have suggested, it does seem as if he's taken time to develop his running game, but theres absolutely no questioning that he's proved doubters wrong in performances against the Barbarians, USA, Uruguay, Wales, England and Argentina.

All stats were taken from ESPN, and for some reason, around about halfway, the format they presented them in changed and they stopped showing lineout wins in a consistent manner (they accredited a huge amount to Hookers, presumably for the throw) and stopped including turnovers.

I also think it should be noted: the Argentina No. 8, Facundo Isa, has had a fantastic series. Wikipedia states that he is 1.88m tall and 106kg. Wikipedia also states that Sean is 1.85m tall and 110kg. Going through other prominent 8s, there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference (height is the biggest differentiator, but it seems to be marginal).

Faletau, Heaslip and Whiteley aren’t too much bigger. The early stats, prior to the switch-up, also indicate that McMahon is a solid lineout option.

When you combine all of the above with his pedigree (shown below), I see absolutely no reason to not continue to throw chances at him. He certainly plays big enough for me, and the best thing? He's only getter better.

2014 – Super Rugby debut, Test match debut, Rebels Rookie of the Year, Super Rugby Rookie of the Year, Buildcorp NRC Player of the Year, Australian u20s Captain & Player of the year, Commonwealth Games Bronze Medalist (7s).

2015 – Rebel’s Player’s Player, Wallabies Rookie of the Year

Epic post. Superb analysis.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[dozza]

This buys into one of GAGR's delusional narratives. 'Sean McMahon hasn't made a ball-running impact'. Ha! 11 tests at Wallaby level shouldn't take me too long to research.

(0)

First Wallabies appearance for Sean, starting against the Barbarians at 6 in 2014 at Twickenham. Interestingly I can’t find any statistics for this game, but the Match report and highlight reel indicate that it was a fairly dominant performance in a very entertaining game; scored a try.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Tevita Kuridrani.
Verdict: Strong performance.

(1)

He had his test debut against Wales on 2014s Spring Tour at blinside flanker (6).

He made 15 tackles; second to only Michael Hooper on 17, and 5 clear of the next best Fainga'a/McCalman/Kuridrani on 10. He ran 4m with ball in hand (=3 within the forward pack), well short of the frontrunners Hooper and McCalman with 21 and 25 respectively. He made 3 turnovers*, second to only Bernard Foley with 4. He took 2 lineouts from our throw (behind Rob Simmons with 4, and infront of McCalman with 1).

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Bernard Foley.
Verdict: Strong performance.

(2)

He played at blindside again for the following game against France. He made 7 tackles; ranking him four out of eight in terms of tackles made. He carried the ball for 3m, ranking him fifth from eight in the forward pack in that metric, but he also ranked fifth from eight in terms of the number of carries. He took the most amount of lineouts from our throws (4), with Rob Simmons next up with 3 takes. However, Rob stole one of the oppositions throws, giving him the same amount of lineout wins overall.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: ? (certainly not Sean).
Verdict: Pass (he sat mid-pack for most metrics in a poor, losing side).

(3)

Sean missed the third game of the tour against Ireland, but was selected again for Australia's final game against England. He was once again =4 in terms of tackles made (with 5 - the frontrunner, Hooper, made 8). Once again 4th in the forward pack with 5 metres ran (the frontrunner, Hooper, made 22). He was fifth in the pack in terms of number of carries. There were 7 lineouts with our throw in the game, Simmons took 3, McMahon 2, Hooper and McCalman with 1 each.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Ben Morgan.
Verdict: Pass.

(4)

We now move onto our RWC warm-up game in 2015 against the USA Eagles in Chicago. The only starting forward to score a try, McMahon was also credited with a try assist. He ran the ball for 29m, 1st in the forwards across the starting team and the bench. The next best were McCalman and Palu with 19m each. McMahon also made 2 clean linebreaks and 1 offload (both metrics second only to Foley) and had a team high 5 defenders beaten.

He made a team high 15 tackles, the next best McCalman and Simmons with 10 each. He took no lineouts. However it is interesting to note that Douglas took 6, McCalman 3 and Simmons 1.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Sean McMahon
Verdict: Very strong performance.

(5)

Moving now to the 2015 RWC, McMahon missed selection for the opening game against Fiji, Cheika preferring the Pooper/Fardy to start and Mumm to come off the bench.

He first featured in Australia’s second game, the demolishing of Uruguay. He started at openside flanker, scoring a team high 2 tries with another 67 running metres (the best of the pack). He had two clean breaks, 5 defenders beaten and one offload.

This was topped off with a fantastic defensive effort, making a team high 13 tackles. He also took 1 lineout (Mumm taking 4, McCalman with 2, Simmons off the bench with 4).

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Sean McMahon
Verdict: Very strong performance.

(6)

He next featured against in our quarter-final against Wales, replacing Michael Hooper who was suspended for something I can’t remember.

He made a forward pack topping 19 running metres (the next highest, McCalman, had 10 off the bench). He had one clean break (only one from the pack), 1 defender beaten and 7 tackles with no misses (this places him =7/23). He took one linout.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Gareth Davies (lol?)
Verdict: A weak, strong performance.

(7)

Having not featured in the rest of the RWC, Sean McMahon came off the bench for Game 1 of our 3 test series against England this year on home turf. He was substituted onto the field at the 68 minute mark, replacing Scott Fardy.

He ran four times for 3m (interestingly it only ranks him 7 out of the 13 forwards listed), beating one defender (equal highest of any forward).

He supposedly made no tackles and took no lineouts.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: James Haskell.
Verdict: Poor performance.


(8)

In Game 2, McMahon started at Number Eight; filling the big shoes of David Pocock.

He ran 13m (5 from the 13 forwards listed), beating 3 defenders (highest of any forward). He made 5 tackles, equal highest of any forward alongside Hooper, Fardy and Moore.

He was substituted at the 51 minute mark for Ben McCalman.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Chris Robshaw.
Verdict: Strong performance for 51 minutes.

(9)

In Game 3, McMahon returned to Number Eight, and eased into the role well.

He had 12 carries for 39m, the most of any forward. He also made 14 tackles and missed none, a team high. From what the stats show and if my memory serves me, he was the pick of the forwards.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Owen Farrell.
Verdict: Strong performance.

(10)

Having not played either of the Bledisloes, Sean McMahon returned to the fold in 2016 against South Africa, being subbed on for David Pocock in the 74th minute.

Playing only six minutes, Sean carried the ball twice for 6m in total. This ranked him 4th of the listed 13 forwards.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Michael Hooper
Verdict: Pass (not enough minutes played).

(11)
Finally, in our last game against Argentina in Perth, McMahon came off the bench in the 45th minute to adopt the role of Number Eight.

He ran the ball twice for 20m, second behind only Michael Hooper in that metric on 31m. He made one clean break, and was credited with 3 defenders beaten (most of any forward).

He was credited with only three tackles.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Will Genia.
Verdict: Strong performance.

//////

So there you have it. I credited him, from stats alone (as relative to the rest of the forwards), with 8 “strong performances” or better from 11 appearances. The 2 “passes” were from his 2nd and 3rd caps, with one “poor” performance after only 12 minutes of gametime (I’m not sure if that assessment was too harsh). A lot of these were off the back of dominant running performances and strong workrate in the tackle.


These strong performances are quite remarkable considering he’s played 6, 7 and 8. I hope he can lock down a position and cement a spot in the team soon. As most posters have suggested, it does seem as if he's taken time to develop his running game, but theres absolutely no questioning that he's proved doubters wrong in performances against the Barbarians, USA, Uruguay, Wales, England and Argentina.

All stats were taken from ESPN, and for some reason, around about halfway, the format they presented them in changed and they stopped showing lineout wins in a consistent manner (they accredited a huge amount to Hookers, presumably for the throw) and stopped including turnovers.

I also think it should be noted: the Argentina No. 8, Facundo Isa, has had a fantastic series. Wikipedia states that he is 1.88m tall and 106kg. Wikipedia also states that Sean is 1.85m tall and 110kg. Going through other prominent 8s, there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference (height is the biggest differentiator, but it seems to be marginal).

Faletau, Heaslip and Whiteley aren’t too much bigger. The early stats, prior to the switch-up, also indicate that McMahon is a solid lineout option.

When you combine all of the above with his pedigree (shown below), I see absolutely no reason to not continue to throw chances at him. He certainly plays big enough for me, and the best thing? He's only getter better.

2014 – Super Rugby debut, Test match debut, Rebels Rookie of the Year, Super Rugby Rookie of the Year, Buildcorp NRC Player of the Year, Australian u20s Captain & Player of the year, Commonwealth Games Bronze Medalist (7s).

2015 – Rebel’s Player’s Player, Wallabies Rookie of the Year

That Wikipedia listing is bullshit, aru website has him at 186cm and 100kg. That is pretty light for a number 8 and although he isnt a bad ball carrier by any means, he cant compete with the vunipolas, vermuleans of the world.

 

[upthereds#!]

Reckon cheika should start Mcmahon 1 game with timani @ 20 or 21 (depending on the split) to lay some people out, and start timani 1 game with mcmahon @ 20 or 21 bringing that speed and leg drive against tired bodies.

Again, I'd say to counter the Pumas most effective weapon (mobility and speed in the backrow) I'd start Mcmahon against Pumas and Timani v Boks

 

[Micheal]

Reckon cheika should start Mcmahon 1 game with timani @ 20 or 21 (depending on the split) to lay some people out, and start timani 1 game with mcmahon @ 20 or 21 bringing that speed and leg drive against tired bodies.

Again, I'd say to counter the Pumas most effective weapon (mobility and speed in the backrow) I'd start Mcmahon against Pumas and Timani v Boks

I agree - I'd let them share the position until we know how Timani performs at this level.

I think in the long-term, Timani and McMahon are both suited to either 6 or 8.

Give them both a shot at each and see how it works.

 

[galumay]

When you combine all of the above with his pedigree (shown below), I see absolutely no reason to not continue to throw chances at him. He certainly plays big enough for me, and the best thing? He's only getter better.

I hope you are right because I think he has to be picked due to injuries and other player's form.

Personally I think he has rarely shown good form against top teams, he gets exposed against better teams where his lack of size does have an impact.

I get your argument from a purely statistical point of view, unfortunately statistics dont tell the whole story, but are an interesting aspect of the story.

Overall I know I have been surprised a couple of times by his performance so that aligns with your thought that he is getting better with time and exposure.

Either way I think we are going to see plenty more of him on the paddock this season so lets home the improvement continues and he can cement a spot in the team on merit.

 

[Groucho]

Reckon cheika should start Mcmahon 1 game with timani @ 20 or 21 (depending on the split) to lay some people out, and start timani 1 game with mcmahon @ 20 or 21 bringing that speed and leg drive against tired bodies.

Again, I'd say to counter the Pumas most effective weapon (mobility and speed in the backrow) I'd start Mcmahon against Pumas and Timani v Boks

Good point, but I think I'd be looking to attack their weaknesses, not counter their strengths. McMahon vs. Boks to spread them out, and Timani vs. Pumas to draw them in.

 

[Viking]

This buys into one of GAGR's delusional narratives. 'Sean McMahon hasn't made a ball-running impact'. Ha! 11 tests at Wallaby level shouldn't take me too long to research.

My statement was actually "I have failed to see McMahon make ball running impact against an organised defence".

I should have been more clear and stated, McMahon has not had a large impact in ball-running at test level against top-tier nations. At least none that give him the tag "best ball-runner in Aus" as so many poster believe him to be.

(0)

First Wallabies appearance for Sean, starting against the Barbarians at 6 in 2014 at Twickenham. Interestingly I can’t find any statistics for this game, but the Match report and highlight reel indicate that it was a fairly dominant performance in a very entertaining game; scored a try.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Tevita Kuridrani.
Verdict: Strong performance.

A nice game against very poor opposition. Got himself on the radar but proves nothing. Barbarian games don’t count.

(1)

He had his test debut against Wales on 2014s Spring Tour at blinside flanker (6).

He made 15 tackles; second to only Michael Hooper on 17, and 5 clear of the next best Fainga'a/McCalman/Kuridrani on 10. He ran 4m with ball in hand (=3 within the forward pack), well short of the frontrunners Hooper and McCalman with 21 and 25 respectively. He made 3 turnovers*, second to only Bernard Foley with 4. He took 2 lineouts from our throw (behind Rob Simmons with 4, and infront of McCalman with 1).

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Bernard Foley.
Verdict: Strong performance.

First decent hit out against a fair opposition. He ran only 4m. No evidence of ball-running here. McCalman smoked him and he’s well-regarded as a low-impact test player.

(2)

He played at blindside again for the following game against France. He made 7 tackles; ranking him four out of eight in terms of tackles made. He carried the ball for 3m, ranking him fifth from eight in the forward pack in that metric, but he also ranked fifth from eight in terms of the number of carries. He took the most amount of lineouts from our throws (4), with Rob Simmons next up with 3 takes. However, Rob stole one of the oppositions throws, giving him the same amount of lineout wins overall.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: ? (certainly not Sean).
Verdict: Pass (he sat mid-pack for most metrics in a poor, losing side).

Played fair opposition and again failed to replicate his barbarians form. No evidence of ball-running yet.

(3)

Sean missed the third game of the tour against Ireland, but was selected again for Australia's final game against England. He was once again =4 in terms of tackles made (with 5 - the frontrunner, Hooper, made 8). Once again 4th in the forward pack with 5 metres ran (the frontrunner, Hooper, made 22). He was fifth in the pack in terms of number of carries. There were 7 lineouts with our throw in the game, Simmons took 3, McMahon 2, Hooper and McCalman with 1 each.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Ben Morgan.
Verdict: Pass.

He’s now played England, Wales, France – although overall performances are okay he has failed to make any significant impact in ball-running. Both Hooper and McCalman clearly more impact.

(4)

We now move onto our RWC warm-up game in 2015 against the USA Eaglesin Chicago. The only starting forward to score a try, McMahon was also credited with a try assist. He ran the ball for 29m, 1st in the forwards across the starting team and the bench. The next best were McCalman and Palu with 19m each. McMahon also made 2 clean linebreaks and 1 offload (both metrics second only to Foley) and had a team high 5 defenders beaten.

He made a team high 15 tackles, the next best McCalman and Simmons with 10 each. He took no lineouts. However it is interesting to note that Douglas took 6, McCalman 3 and Simmons 1.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Sean McMahon
Verdict: Very strong performance.

USA Eagles. Probably not even on par with the worst super xv team. Still no evidence of ball-running against quality opposition at test level.

(5)

Moving now to the 2015 RWC, McMahon missed selection for the opening game against Fiji, Cheika preferring the Pooper/Fardy to start and Mumm to come off the bench.

He first featured in Australia’s second game, the demolishing of Uruguay. He started at openside flanker, scoring a team high 2 tries with another 67 running metres (the best of the pack). He had two clean breaks, 5 defenders beaten and one offload.

This was topped off with a fantastic defensive effort, making a team high 13 tackles. He also took 1 lineout (Mumm taking 4, McCalman with 2, Simmons off the bench with 4).

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Sean McMahon
Verdict: Very strong performance.

Again, Uruguay, very poor opposition. His history against poor opposition is good, but still proves nothing yet.

(6)

He next featured against in our quarter-final against Wales, replacing Michael Hooper who was suspended for something I can’t remember.

He made a forward pack topping 19 running metres (the next highest, McCalman, had 10 off the bench). He had one clean break (only one from the pack), 1 defender beaten and 7 tackles with no misses (this places him =7/23). He took one linout.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Gareth Davies (lol?)
Verdict: A weak, strong performance.

This was his best game so far. Solid outing. Solid ball-running. But is he any better than Hooper? Last time the Wallabies played Wales you stated both Hooper and McCalman ran 20m+.

So he’s had one game of solid ball-running, Hooper I’m sure by this stage has many.

(7)

Having not featured in the rest of the RWC, Sean McMahon came off the bench for Game 1 of our 3 test series against England this year on home turf. He was substituted onto the field at the 68 minute mark, replacing Scott Fardy.

He ran four times for 3m (interestingly it only ranks him 7 out of the 13 forwards listed), beating one defender (equal highest of any forward).

He supposedly made no tackles and took no lineouts.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: James Haskell.
Verdict: Poor performance.

No comment. Nothing here.

(8)

In Game 2, McMahon started at Number Eight; filling the big shoes of David Pocock.

He ran 13m (5 from the 13 forwards listed), beating 3 defenders (highest of any forward). He made 5 tackles, equal highest of any forward alongside Hooper, Fardy and Moore.

He was substituted at the 51 minute mark for Ben McCalman.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Chris Robshaw.
Verdict: Strong performance for 51 minutes.

13m. Solid effort. In comparison David Pocock in game 1 ran 10 times for 19m. Pocock the better ball-runner agains the same opposition. Yes David Pocock. Hardly renowned for ball-running.

So again, solid stats but nothing suggesting he is “Australia’s best ball-runner”.

(9)

In Game 3, McMahon returned to Number Eight, and eased into the role well.

He had 12 carries for 39m, the most of any forward. He also made 14 tackles and missed none, a team high. From what the stats show and if my memory serves me, he was the pick of the forwards.

Result: Loss.
Man-of-the-match: Owen Farrell.
Verdict: Strong performance.

Great stats suggesting a good ball-running performance. Finally.

(10)

Having not played either of the Bledisloes, Sean McMahon returned to the fold in 2016 against South Africa, being subbed on for David Pocock in the 74th minute.

Playing only six minutes, Sean carried the ball twice for 6m in total. This ranked him 4th of the listed 13 forwards.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Michael Hooper
Verdict: Pass (not enough minutes played).

No comment.

(11)
Finally, in our last game against Argentina in Perth, McMahon came off the bench in the 45th minute to adopt the role of Number Eight.

He ran the ball twice for 20m, second behind only Michael Hooper in that metric on 31m. He made one clean break, and was credited with 3 defenders beaten (most of any forward).

He was credited with only three tackles.

Result: Victory.
Man-of-the-match: Will Genia.
Verdict: Strong performance.

Great run in this game. Wish he could do this against England, Boks, NZ – which he hasn’t yet.

//////

So there you have it. I credited him, from stats alone (as relative to the rest of the forwards), with 8 “strong performances” or better from 11 appearances. The 2 “passes” were from his 2nd and 3rd caps, with one “poor” performance after only 12 minutes of gametime (I’m not sure if that assessment was too harsh). A lot of these were off the back of dominant running performances and strong workrate in the tackle.

Dominate running performances? Actually none of your stats suggest that, unless you count the games against Barbarians, Uruguay, USA. I don’t.

These strong performances are quite remarkable considering he’s played 6, 7 and 8. I hope he can lock down a position and cement a spot in the team soon. As most posters have suggested, it does seem as if he's taken time to develop his running game, but theres absolutely no questioning that he's proved doubters wrong in performances against the Barbarians, USA, Uruguay, Wales, England and Argentina.

Again, you can’t prove doubters wrong by playing blinders against poor opposition in Barbarians, USA, Uruguay a poor England team (RWC). Your summary stated he only had solid ball-running games against Wales, England. Not outstanding ball-running, solid.

All stats were taken from ESPN, and for some reason, around about halfway, the format they presented them in changed and they stopped showing lineout wins in a consistent manner (they accredited a huge amount to Hookers, presumably for the throw) and stopped including turnovers.

I also think it should be noted: the Argentina No. 8, Facundo Isa, has had a fantastic series. Wikipedia states that he is 1.88m tall and 106kg. Wikipedia also states that Sean is 1.85m tall and 110kg. Going through other prominent 8s, there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference (height is the biggest differentiator, but it seems to be marginal).

Faletau, Heaslip and Whiteley aren’t too much bigger. The early stats, prior to the switch-up, also indicate that McMahon is a solid lineout option.

When you combine all of the above with his pedigree (shown below), I see absolutely no reason to not continue to throwchances at him. He certainly plays big enough for me, and the best thing? He's only getter better.

2014 – Super Rugby debut, Test match debut, Rebels Rookie of the Year, Super Rugby Rookie of the Year, Buildcorp NRC Player of the Year, Australian u20s Captain & Player of the year, Commonwealth Games Bronze Medalist (7s).

2015 – Rebel’s Player’s Player, Wallabies Rookie of the Year

[/quote}

Yes McMahon is a great player and has solid overall performances at test level. Certainly not in the outstanding or world-class category yet. Certainly no evidence suggesting he is a better ball-runner then Hooper or even McCalman at test level yet.

Yes he absolutely smokes everyone at super xv level and deserve all his accolades at that level. Deserves rookie of the year.

Is a bloody great performer with the best attitude of any player I’ve seen in decades. But breaking down his performances like you did, there is nothing there showing McMahon is the “best ball-runner” in Aus. Currently I’d say Hooper has more evidence at test level to suggest he is the better ball runner.

Having said that, if McMahon doesn’t come out next weekend and dominate in his ball-running, he is surely due to soon. I have a feeling his dominance is only around the corner, but that could be next game or next year or next 2 years. Potential is there, just hasn’t lived up to it yet.

Yet.


Plus take the ball-running out, he’s still a solid performer. As your summary suggests.

 

[Groucho]

Barbarian games don’t count.

Seriously? That's one of the saddest things I've seen written on here.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Seb, there is one aspect of McMahon's running game that shouldn't be overlooked. He invariably is running the ball up in heavy traffic areas, though the middle of rucks etc, whereas MH mostly runs wider where there are more opportunities to make extra ground. I think it is very fair to say that Sean is probably our most effective runner in close.

 

[bigmac]

Seb, there is one aspect of McMahon's running game that shouldn't be overlooked. He invariably is running the ball up in heavy traffic areas, though the middle of rucks etc, whereas MH mostly runs wider where there are more opportunities to make extra ground. I think it is very fair to say that Sean is probably our most effective runner in close.

Excellent point. Mcmahons run vs the argies in the tight was alpha male stuff

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[Viking]

Seriously? That's one of the saddest things I've seen written on here.

I like to measure performance against fair opposition. The barbarians are rarely a strong well-organised team.

I don't think they even get a test cap against the Barbarians. So if you think that's sad take it up with the ARU and World Rugby.

 

[Viking]

Seb, there is one aspect of McMahon's running game that shouldn't be overlooked. He invariably is running the ball up in heavy traffic areas, though the middle of rucks etc, whereas MH mostly runs wider where there are more opportunities to make extra ground. I think it is very fair to say that Sean is probably our most effective runner in close.

Good point. I should point out I'm not saying he is a poor ball-runner I just think he is over-hyped. Yet to prove anything on the big stage yet.

I'll reserve my opinion until he has a few more games against the likes of the Boks, England or NZ.

 

[dru]

I'll reserve my opinion

So why not talk that way? What I've seen so far is outright diss'ing a player with performance (S18) and promise (international).

Utterly no "being reserved" in presence at all. Ah, imho.

 

[Viking]

So why not talk that way? What I've seen so far is outright diss'ing a player with performance (S18) and promise (international).

Utterly no "being reserved" in presence at all. Ah, imho.

Dissing? All I've said was "I haven't seen any evidence of significant ball-running at test level". Then backed up my point with evidence.

Where are these posts of mine where I've been dissing McMahon?

Not sure why everyone gets so sensitive all the time.

 

[Micheal]

Is a bloody great performer with the best attitude of any player I’ve seen in decades. But breaking down his performances like you did, there is nothing there showing McMahon is the “best ball-runner” in Aus. Currently I’d say Hooper has more evidence at test level to suggest he is the better ball runner.

I never said he was the "best ball-runner" in Aus. Hooper's certainly got that wrapped up.

In terms of what the evidence shows, it tells us that he was the best ball-runner among the Wallabies forwards against Wales, England and Argentina. These are all quality, tier one "organized" defenses, yet people to say that hes never shown ball-running capability against teams of this caliber. Its simply not true. You can argue that he hasn't been as effective as he is in Super rugby, but then again, neither are any of the other options. You pick players based upon their form relative to the other options available.

He's replicated this form against tier two teams (Uruguay and the USA) and the Barbarians, who would sit between tier one and two if they were a nation.

Just as a note for those dismissing his performance against the Barbarians. We only won that game by four points (40-36). The Barbarians team that ran out was:

1 Matt Stevens (39 England caps)
2 James Parsons (2 All Blacks caps)
3 Angus Ta'avao (Waratahs)
4 Dominic Bird (2 All Blacks caps)
5 Alastair Kellock (56 Scotland caps)
6 Adam Thomson (29 All Blacks caps)
7 Matt Todd (4 All Blacks caps)
8 Steven Luatua (14 All Blacks caps)

Backs
9 Tomas Cubelli (52 Argentina caps)
10 Colin Slade (21 All Blacks caps)
11 Nick Cummins (15 Wallabies caps)
12 Francis Saili (2 All Blacks caps)
13 Juan de Jongh (17 Springboks caps)
14 Frank Halai (1 All Blacks cap)
15 Tim Nanai Williams (4 Samoa caps)

Replacements

16 Mahonri Schwalger (40 Samoa caps)
17 Thomas Du Toit (? Springbok 'A' caps)
18 Lourens Adriaanse (4 Springboks caps)
19 Heinrich Brussow (22 Springboks caps)
20 Matias Alemanno (25 Argentina caps)
21 Sarel Pretorius (Cheetahs / Waratahs)
22 Joaquin Tuculet (35 Argentina caps)
23 Marnitz Boshoff (1 Springbok cap)

Hardly to be scoffed at. They played fantastically that night from what I recall.

* All caps information sourced from Wikipedia. Some may be lower than the actual current figures. For instance, Wikipedia said the Honey Badger only had 2 caps for Australia.

 

[dru]

Dissing? All I've said was "I haven't seen any evidence of significant ball-running at test level.

Nope. That's not all you've said AND it's not the gist of your posts.

Imho

Hell, I have no reason to put this bloke on pedestal. But he's better than your reactions. And lets hope I'm right, cause he's in the team.

Try working with them.

 

[Highlander35]

Still very glad he was picked ahead of Butler, whom some were aggressively arguing for at the time.

 

[Viking]

I never said he was the "best ball-runner" in Aus. Hooper's certainly got that wrapped up.

In terms of what the evidence shows, it tells us that he was the best ball-runner among the Wallabies forwards against Wales, England and Argentina. These are all quality, tier one "organized" defenses, yet people to say that hes never shown ball-running capability against teams of this caliber. Its simply not true. You can argue that he hasn't been as effective as he is in Super rugby, but then again, neither are any of the other options. You pick players based upon their form relative to the other options available.

He's replicated this form against tier two teams (Uruguay and the USA) and the Barbarians, who would sit between tier one and two if they were a nation.

Just as a note for those dismissing his performance against the Barbarians. We only won that game by four points (40-36). The Barbarians team that ran out was:

1 Matt Stevens (39 England caps)
2 James Parsons (2 All Blacks caps)
3 Angus Ta'avao (Waratahs)
4 Dominic Bird (2 All Blacks caps)
5 Alastair Kellock (56 Scotland caps)
6 Adam Thomson (29 All Blacks caps)
7 Matt Todd (4 All Blacks caps)
8 Steven Luatua (14 All Blacks caps)

Backs
9 Tomas Cubelli (52 Argentina caps)
10 Colin Slade (21 All Blacks caps)
11 Nick Cummins (15 Wallabies caps)
12 Francis Saili (2 All Blacks caps)
13 Juan de Jongh (17 Springboks caps)
14 Frank Halai (1 All Blacks cap)
15 Tim Nanai Williams (4 Samoa caps)

Replacements

16 Mahonri Schwalger (40 Samoa caps)
17 Thomas Du Toit (? Springbok 'A' caps)
18 Lourens Adriaanse (4 Springboks caps)
19 Heinrich Brussow (22 Springboks caps)
20 Matias Alemanno (25 Argentina caps)
21 Sarel Pretorius (Cheetahs / Waratahs)
22 Joaquin Tuculet (35 Argentina caps)
23 Marnitz Boshoff (1 Springbok cap)

Hardly to be scoffed at. They played fantastically that night from what I recall.

* All caps information sourced from Wikipedia. Some may be lower than the actual current figures. For instance, Wikipedia said the Honey Badger only had 2 caps for Australia.

Fair call. My reaction and posts are really directed at the posters who have said he is the best ball-runner in Aus.

I still disagree about the Barabians team, they have about 2 weeks training together and literally the whole team has barely ever played rugby with one another. They do a very good job to get any sort of structure together in the minimal time they have spent together.

Also, I don't disagree that he hasn't been an effective ball-runner. I just don't think the England, Wales, and Argentina games - which you have pointed out has been anything that outstanding - given current players such as Hooper, McCalman and even Pocock have achieved a similar result in the past too.

All i want to see from McMahon is one run like he did last week against Argentina but against the Boks or NZ. Then I'm sold.

So I'm certainly not a hater, just a doubter.

 

[Viking]

Nope. That's not all you've said AND it's not the gist of your posts.

Imho

Hell, I have no reason to put this bloke on pedestal. But he's better than your reactions. And lets hope I'm right, cause he's in the team.

Try working with them.

I guess i've gone over-board in the McMahon posts. I do rate his potential, and his attitude - damn his attitude is bloody good!

Wish we could bottle it up and give it to rest of the players.

 

[gel]

Dissing? All I've said was "I haven't seen any evidence of significant ball-running at test level". Then backed up my point with evidence.

Where are these posts of mine where I've been dissing McMahon?

Not sure why everyone gets so sensitive all the time.

because it's the internet.