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Springboks 2010 End Of Year Tour

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Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
John Smit won't tour with the Boks because he's had an operation to repair a disc in his back. I would have rested him anyway and put him on a diet.

Victor Matfield would be the logical replacement, but Chicken Legs should be rested also.

I'd give the captaincy to Juan Smith - or maybe Schalk Burger, warts and all.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
If Matfield tours you'd expect he'd be captain. I'd pick him, too.

Smith (J) and Burger are both good leaders, but you don't have to be captain to lead a side.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Will be interesting to see Snors pick. Short term vision Matfield. Long term Schalkie. Juan will retire after the WC. This bring Battleship in action. Nice!
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
As mentioned it all depends on whether Matfield tours. He'll be kicking down the door to go with the captaincy on the table. He should not be touring though and Smith should captain.

Smit is at great risk. Back op. Stationary for a while. He'll be packing on the padding.

With Matfield playing I;d like to see a pack of;

Jannie Doep, Bismarck Doep, Beast
Matfield, vd Merwe
Juan, Schalk, Brussow

Dreaming. Yeah. I know.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Thsi is an interestign article.

1. 13 boks will not tour. The assumption is made that includes Matfield.
2. Andries Bekker reported to be recoverign (I read that elsewhere as well - Paarl?) This would suggest that Matfield will definitely not go.
3. Jean de Villiers is not under Bok contract so he could be a bolter to captain although I would pick Smith.

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/100923/Smit_absence_creates_opportunity
Smit absence creates opportunity
by Gavin Rich 23 September 2010, 10:09

Confirmation that John Smit has undergone an operation that will keep him sidelined until February next year has created a win-win situation for all parties who have an interest in seeing the Springbok captain come back and play his best rugby in 2011.

It has also broken the apparent holding pattern in which South African rugby has appeared to find itself, as everyone awaits the SA Rugby Union review of the Tri-Nations disaster, which is scheduled for next week.

Bok coach Peter de Villiers announced recently that 13 contracted players will not be part of the group that tours the United Kingdom and Ireland in November. But although all the indications are that De Villiers will be retained as coach, there is still no complete certainty and there have been indications that he could be forced by rugby bosses to consider a solution to the current crisis that he might not be happy with.

What we now do know for certain is that Smit will not be captaining the side as he takes three months out to recover from a back operation which was carried out to repair a chronic cervical disc. When he does return to the training field in early January, Smit will have some time to sweat out the kilograms he may need to lose if he wants to return to his best form in time for what should be his swansong season.

The Bok captain will want to give the Super Rugby tournament a full crack, as the competition will be key to him recovering the reputation that many feel was ruined by his poor form in the recent Tri-Nations. Smit will want to be in a position where he can lead his team from the front as they head to New Zealand to defend the World Cup crown won in 2007, and Super Rugby will provide him with a chance to pick up momentum and match-fitness.

To those who have worked with Smit, it would not have been a surprise that his best game of the Tri-Nations season was the last match against Australia. Sharks coach John Plumtree has long argued that Smit needs a good sequence of successive games to get his fitness up, and it usually takes Smit a couple of games with the Sharks before he really gets up momentum.

But before the season starts, Smit will have to shed some weight, as it’s estimated that his best fighting weight is between 115 kg and an upper limit of 117/118 kg; he was three to four kilograms heavier than that in the Tri-Nations season.

In the meantime, Smit’s absence will give the Springbok management – however that group may be constituted by the time the departure for the first tour match against Ireland arrives in early November – a chance to assess where they stand in Smit’s absence.

Indeed, while De Villiers will surely not welcome Smit’s absence, as the skipper has been a constant presence at his side during the better parts of his reign as Bok coach, it could prove fortuitous if the South Africans still manage to complete a successful tour.

There has been much talk over the past two years of the player-driven system that is said to be responsible for most of the Bok success. De Villiers has been happy to take on a background role in the devising of strategy and Smit, vice-captain Victor Matfield and senior player Fourie du Preez have effectively been the team’s coaches over the past 24 months.

This system has been criticised, and there were always critics who questioned whether it could be sustained, but while it worked and the Bok momentum was up, there was no good reason to meddle with it.

There is however a fine balance between effectively empowering players and giving them too much power, and there has been plenty of evidence that discipline hasn’t always been what it should be during the 12 months of Bok decline which has seen them lose seven of their last 13 matches.

If what would essentially be a new Bok team, held together by a few experienced players such as the anticipated skipper Juan Smith, Bakkies Botha and Jean de Villiers, enjoyed a successful tour, it would both be a positive comment on De Villiers’ ability to coach without Smit and Matfield, and a strong message to the senior players who stay at home that they are not royal game.

Should the likes of Bismarck du Plessis and Andries Bekker, who is expected to tour after recovering from an operation, play well in the UK, it would put down a marker and send out the unambiguous message that every player has to play for his place in Super Rugby. That would eradicate the potential for the complacency that played a part in the Bok nose-dive from top in the Tri-Nations in 2009 to last position 12 months later.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Paarl who do you think will stay?

13 players:
1. Smit
2. Matfield
3. Burger
4. Spies
5. Steenkamp
6. Habana
7. Fourie du Preez
8. Olivier
9. Jannie Doep?
10. Danie Rossouw?
11. Flip vd Merwe?
12. Jacques Fourie?
13. Morne Steyn?

I can't think of any others. JP needs game time, Hougaard is not yet contracted. I don't think Aplon and de Jongh have contracts so they should tour?


A Bok 15 could look something like:
15. Frans Steyn
14. Aplon
13. Juan de Jongh
12. Jean de Villiers
11. Basson
10. Who? Bolters? Lambie? Jantjies?
9. Hougaard
8. Duane
7. Juan
6. Brussow (I read he is almost ready to play?)
5. Bekker
4. Botha
3. Brok Harris (deserves a go with Botha on bench)
2. Battleship
1. Beast

Who the heck knows.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
13 players:
1. Smit
2. Matfield
3. Burger
4. Spies
5. Steenkamp
6. Habana
7. Fourie du Preez
8. Danie Rossouw
9. Jacques Fourie
10. Morne Steyn
11 Januarie
12 AD Jacobs
13 Brussouw?


A Bok 15 could look something like:
15. Frans Steyn
14. Aplon
13. Juan de Jongh/Wynand Olivier
12. Jean de Villiers
11. JPP/ Basson
10. Lambie/Jantjies/JL Potties
9. Hougaard
8. Duane
7. Juan
6. Brussow (I read he is almost ready to play?)
5. Bekker
4. Botha
3. Jannie Doep/CJ vd Linde
2. Battleship
1. Beast
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
I guess Kanko is the guy who will start at 8 although Duane is much better suited to play up North. We need grafters up there, not flashy runners.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
I guess Kanko is the guy who will start at 8 although Duane is much better suited to play up North. We need grafters up there, not flashy runners.
Oeps ja missed that one. Alberts also on excellent form and a tough customer. Also like the look of the other two Lion flankers Derick Minnie and Josua Strauss (he came from nowhere and look and play like Chabal, going the long route via Mikro, Paul Roos, Maties varsity Cup, Boland and plugged out by John Mitchell for the Lions.

Deysel should also be back and Slangkos.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
If the players mentioned are likely to tour/miss the tour it will be a huge trip for BdP and Bekker.

BdP will have to have a blinder of a tour to show with clarity that he is a far better hooker than the iconic Smit and that the Boks with therefore suffer in 2011 if he doesn't start in test matches.

Bekker is in a similar situation vis-à-vis Matfield. One lock has to be the tighthead lock workhorse and the other the Victor and Andries type. There's not room for both in the run on team.



[Not to the point of this thread but the Wallabies suffered through not having Horwill this year for the TH lock role more than folks think.]
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
If the players mentioned are likely to tour/miss the tour it will be a huge trip for BdP and Bekker.

BdP will have to have a blinder of a tour to show with clarity that he is a far better hooker than the iconic Smit and that the Boks with therefore suffer in 2011 if he doesn't start in test matches.

Bekker is in a similar situation vis-à-vis Matfield. One lock has to be the tighthead lock workhorse and the other the Victor and Andries type. There's not room for both in the run on team.



[Not to the point of this thread but the Wallabies suffered through not having Horwill this year for the TH lock role more than folks think.]

Spot on Lee. They won't work together.

Bakkies Botha will be there and starting on the EYOT. For good or bad.

Horwill needs to get fit and stay fit through the next year. If he can play to form it will make a massive difference.
 

rustycruiser

Billy Sheehan (19)
Paarl who do you think will stay?

13 players:
1. Smit
2. Matfield
3. Burger
4. Spies
5. Steenkamp NOT CONTRACTED
6. Habana
7. Fourie du Preez
8. Olivier
9. Jannie Doep? NOT CONTRACTED
10. Danie Rossouw?
11. Flip vd Merwe? NOT CONTRACTED
12. Jacques Fourie?
13. Morne Steyn?

The 20 contracted Boks are :

• Blue Bulls – Victor Matfield , Danie Rossouw, Bakkies Botha, Wynand Olivier, Morne Steyn, Fourie du Preez and Pierre Spies.
• Natal – John Smit, Bismarck du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarira, JP Pietersen and Adi Jacobs.
• Western Province – Schalk Burger, Jaque Fourie, Bryan Habana, Ricky Januarie and Andries Bekker.
• Free State – Juan Smith, Heinrich Brüssow and CJ van der Linde.

The 13 that will stay behind on that list are presumably:

1 Victor Matfield
2 Danie Roussow
3 Morne Steyn
4 Fourie du Preez
5 Pierre Spies
6 John Smit
7 Schalk Burger
8 Jaque Fourie
9 Bryan Habana
10 Heinrich Brussow
11 ? CJ ?
12 ? Wynand ?
13 ? Bakkies ?

Here is where SARU are so dumb. A guy like Guthro Steenkamp played almost all the tests plus the Bulls Super matches this year. But he is not a contracted Bok. So they should use common sense and rest him. Instead, I think they are so dumb he will probably travel, and "contracted" Bok Beast will get rested even though he didn't play for the Boks much at all. Just wait and see.

Bakkies sure as hell needs game time. Anyone want to bet money he gets rested. I am calling it now!
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Here is where SARU are so dumb. A guy like Guthro Steenkamp played almost all the tests plus the Bulls Super matches this year. But he is not a contracted Bok. So they should use common sense and rest him. Instead, I think they are so dumb he will probably travel, and "contracted" Bok Beast will get rested even though he didn't play for the Boks much at all. Just wait and see.

Bakkies sure as hell needs game time. Anyone want to bet money he gets rested. I am calling it now!

I think you called it right.
 
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Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Yes but ONLY if they choose wisely for the replacement skipper?

Much chance of Juan been the one?

That's what the drums speak at the moment.

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/100924/Smith_would_lead_by_example

Problem we have is Smith is like the glue between everything. He keeps the Bulls / WP factions at bay and acts as the calming influence between a lunatic coach and confused assistant coaches.

It is questionable whether they can be effective without him around with this coaching group.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
On Steenkamp, I think it's also fair to say that no-one at the start of the season expected either that a) he'd play as much as he did or b) that he'd play as well as he has done. He's very definitely stepped up. Bolters tend not to be contracted; it's the way it happens. For what it's worth, the more games he gets, the better he looks; and I'd play him. I think it could make him a better prop than Beast.
 
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