Sonny Bill Williams

[disco]

Finally sat down & watched him play yesterday in the ITM cup for Canterbury against Wellington.

He's an athlete alright & thanks to Coles (W'Ton hooker) we know to hit him low & don't stir him up.

I always presumed SBW would be better at league than rugby because leaguies don't tackle low as often.

Leg tackling in league is not as common as in rugby, nearly all 1st up tacklers in league will go ball & all where as in rugby they'll still hit low 1st.

Coles snapped SBW with a beauty which led to a turnover this is when I saw a 2nd side to SBW. As Coles & SBW got up Coles sledged him & gave him a little pat on the head.

Big mistake this fired SBW up like I've never seen before & for the next 10/15 minutes SBW was everywhere & he was awesome up until he scored a brilliant solo try & calmed down again.

SBW still has a lot to learn but you only have to look at Will Chambers for the Reds & see how quickly he improved over a season to know that SBW will be a real threat next year.

PS: Hey Scarfie where's the dollar sign symbol Icon?

 

[Gnostic]

I am still not convinced with SBW. It will be interesting to see how he goes against a good 13 and see if he has overcome his defensive positional issues.

 

[Lee Grant]

Few people who saw SBW in his 2nd season for Toulon on a regular basis would doubt that he had what it takes to be an international rugby player. He was injured a lot at the start of his 1st year and afterwards in Yr.1 he had trouble fitting in his league skills: accelerating into half breaks then offloading, plus fending off opponents for full breaks, into the union code.

These skills came good deep into Yr. 1 and were evident in most games I saw in Yr. 2. He had a top game when he came on in the 2nd half yesterday for Canterbury and he showed that his passing skills for the union code weren't too shabby either.

Now in his third season of rugby union he is showing that he is getting an instinct for the game. He will go on the All Blacks EOYT and I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a test match 22.

He plays 12 as most of us thought he would when he went to France, but by the time the 2010 S15 is over I'd back him to do OK at 13 also. I'd like to see him get some time there for the Crusaders.

Don't the Christchurch crowd love him?

 

[Ruggo]

I am still not convinced with SBW. It will be interesting to see how he goes against a good 13 and see if he has overcome his defensive positional issues.

He did and Morty crunched him if I remember correct.

Rugby is a game about attitude and Money Bill has yet to convince me that he has his head out of his arse. This AB talk is far too premiture. If Nonu was to get injured, I would have Toeava in that 12 jersey well before SBW.

 

[Epi]

I am still not convinced with SBW. It will be interesting to see how he goes against a good 13 and see if he has overcome his defensive positional issues.

I've watched every ITM game he's played plus a lot of his games when he was at Toulon. I'm yet to see these defensive positional issues you mention (I saw that written in the paper too - just cause it's in the paper doesn't make it true - he had a couple of issues fielding grubbers not issues with his position...)

If you'd been watching too, which you would probably need too to be convinced, you'd know he's been playing 12 not 13...

 

[Gnostic]

I've watched every ITM game he's played plus a lot of his games when he was at Toulon. I'm yet to see these defensive positional issues you mention (I saw that written in the paper too - just cause it's in the paper doesn't make it true - he had a couple of issues fielding grubbers not issues with his position...)

If you'd been watching too, which you would probably need too to be convinced, you'd know he's been playing 12 not 13...

I haven't watched the ITM cup.

I did watch a lot of his games at Toulon and most of those he played on the wing and at 13 and he got caught out of the line many times, shoulder charging quite a few as well. When I see him at S15 level and doing well there then I will be convinced. Not before. This argument regarding League players in the centres has been seen many many times. You will recall that we have seen Tiquiri, Cross, Tahu and Rogers at 13 in Wallabies colours and surprisingly Rogers was the best positional defender. Tiquiri got caught out of position and for the good games Cross has had I can point you to a few shockers as well. As for Tahu there was never a bigger waste of money in the history of NSW and Oz Rugby.

 

[I like to watch]

I haven't watched the ITM cup.

I did watch a lot of his games at Toulon and most of those he played on the wing and at 13 and he got caught out of the line many times, shoulder charging quite a few as well. When I see him at S15 level and doing well there then I will be convinced. Not before. This argument regarding League players in the centres has been seen many many times. You will recall that we have seen Tiquiri, Cross, Tahu and Rogers at 13 in Wallabies colours and surprisingly Rogers was the best positional defender. Tiquiri got caught out of position and for the good games Cross has had I can point you to a few shockers as well. As for Tahu there was never a bigger waste of money in the history of NSW and Oz Rugby.

There is no doubt 13 is the hardest position to learn defensively.Lote is a winger pure & simple. Cross has been a huge disappointment but was never topshelf in Mungo. Rogers played well for the wobblies.
Lote played the role he was given, which was basically a 9th forward hitting it up close to the breakdown. Tahu was a waste of money, he was broken for most of his time, then Hicks refused to use him, despite him clearly outperforming Carter.
Why is there so much anti Mungo with rugby diehards?
And where is the demarcation line? Why is not berrick a mungo? he came straight from the Bronco's . QC (Quade Cooper) also guilty of playing mungo

 

[Epi]

I don't remember Tana Umaga having too many positional difficulties... Anyhoo...

 

[Lindommer]

Why is there so much anti-mungo with rugby diehards? And where's the demarcation line? Why isn't Berrick a mungo? He came straight from the Broncos. QC (Quade Cooper) also guilty of playing mungo

Barnes attended Ipswich Grammar where he played First XV and some Queensland Schoolboy rep games. Cooper played a bit of league around his school commitments, as do a lot of other teenage rugby players.

The anti-mungo feeling among older rugby supporters stems from the bastards pinching so many of our good players. One year (1973?) they even pinched the Australian rugby captain: Peter Sullivan to St George.

 

[Blue]

If that was just some bloke playing 12 for Canterbury people would have said: "Jeez, who is this big bloke playing 12? He is quit an athlete. Couple of very good skip passes and excellent offloads in the tackle. He looks pretty handy and gave the back line a bit of shape after Crotty looked average in the first half. He's a good chance for the EOYT that Sonny fella."

Instead some people feel the need to bag him regardless. Understandable though. League mungo thing with a bit of jealousy thrown in.

I think he is coming along just fine. He seems to have a couple of issues with knowing which side of the ruck to defend but he'll figure it out.

Clever coaches will turn his skills into an asset. Graham Henry is sort of a bit of a clever old hand.

 

[Gnostic]

.
Why is there so much anti Mungo with rugby diehards?
And where is the demarcation line? Why is not berrick a mungo? he came straight from the Bronco's . QC (Quade Cooper) also guilty of playing mungo

Maybe for some it is because so many of the Mungos bag Rugby mercilessly and Rugby is still struggling for equality in Oz. The fact that so many League players have come to Rugby from the top shelf of League and proved absolute failures or limitted successes.

For me I deal with each case on its merits. I was never a fan of Tiquiri, Sailor or Tahu for all the obvious reasons. I was a big fan of Peter Ryan and I thought Rogers was easily the best of the League converts in Oz, just a pity he was broken so often.

 

[Epi]

[video=youtube;Y3_UW3knKh8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_UW3knKh8[/video]

3.55

 

[Gnostic]

I was expecting more than that the way you were gushing over it. Fairly poor attempted tackle. As for the alledged Cole gee up more of a sly head but from SBW to start it. Like I said I reserve judgement on him until he produces the goods against full professionals in a comp of the standard of the S14.

 

[dobduff11]

from what i have seen from SBW in the top 14 and recently in the ITM he looks like a talent that may be ready for the world cup depending on his Super 15 campaign.

He has only played about 1 season of rugby union due to injuries at toulon so should not be expected to replace nonu and smith straight away.

And i think poicking him for the EOYT would be good for his development

 

[Lee Grant]

Exactly right, and I wouldn't limit his position to 12. Someone said that 13 is the hardest back position to play defensively and I've been saying that on the internet since 1999, so I won't contradict it, but I would like to see him play there some time during the S15, even if it's moving there because of replacements.

Agree that his chance for the RWC will be defined by his performance in the S15. Watch this space.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Positionally, 13 is very difficult, but SBW is quite an athlete. My only question is whether he's got the nous to play there. Let's also not forget that Conrad Smith is a very good (and smart) footballer and the incumbent there. Unless he gets inured, I can't see SBW getting near it.

 

[tranquility]

Lets be franc, SBW is a freak of nature. He is more powerful, and more co-ordinated than almost any other footballer on the planet. The fact that he is playing such incredible rugby at this stage of his career is pretty amazing. He is a threat every time he gets involved in the game. Lets not get caught up in who the incumbents are and just let him develop. Conrad Smith and Nonu are both freaks, and are probably the best center pairing in the world - but that doesn't mean SBW can't have a place in their side be it on the bench or whatever. This is not even taking into account injury and form from next years Super rugby. With another 12 months under his belt, a european tour and a full season with the Crusaders he really could be anything by world cup time.

 

[Newb]

Positionally, 13 is very difficult, but SBW is quite an athlete. My only question is whether he's got the nous to play there. Let's also not forget that Conrad Smith is a very good (and smart) footballer and the incumbent there. Unless he gets inured, I can't see SBW getting near it.

exactly right. whether he'll be ready or not, conrad has a very strong grasp on the 13 jersey. SBW outside nonu might be devastating in some ways, but conrad provides a balance in the midfield that would be severely lacking.

 

[tranquility]

another idea, and don't shoot me down too quickly would be to train him in the basics of backrow play. This is not becasue I think he should play there as I think he is a custom built modern 12, but given his powerful running and noted hitting ability (albeit with no arms) it would give the all blacks a real wild card to have on their bench a player who could cover (12, 13) and also (6,8) depending on how the game panned out. He could be so damaging in the back half games and is probably bigger than everyone in the wallabies backrow. Food for thought at this stage really.

 

[jay-c]

he is do dangerous with ball in hand
his offloads to speedy wingers will score so many tries > jus theway he holds it in one hand> whooee check this 2nd vid
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/the-leaguies-take-paris-video-highlights/