So, who here thinks Deans is the coach we need?

[Joe Mac]

No, not ignoring, just not enough evidence of intent yet.

And no bending of the back, just arms so far.

Admittedly, there is a big leap from Super XV up to National level, but Quade has impressed me with his tackling since he has been back.

 

[I like to watch]

....
I think that Cooper has to defend in the front line going forward. His positional play and work under the high ball is nowhere near as good as Beale if he is defending at fullback. Add to that the additional disruption of having to switch between positions quickly and negating Beale's counter-attack, it just doesn't make sense to continue doing it.

Cooper must know that his defence will always be targetted so he has to muscle up and make it a strong part of his game.

Hopefully we see an injury free season from him next year so he has the opportunity to develop his defence and show that he is a more complete player.

I would not be expecting any major improvement in QC (Quade Cooper)'s defensive capabilities, given that he is in his fourth or fifth year as a professional Rugby player.
He is what he is, if you pick him, you pick him knowing his frailties.

 

[fatprop]

I would not be expecting any major improvement in QC (Quade Cooper)'s defensive capabilities, given that he is in his fourth or fifth year as a professional Rugby player.
He is what he is, if you pick him, you pick him knowing his frailties.

Beale did it, Cooper can do it.

 

[I like to watch]

Put Beale back at 10, and see if he has changed.
I am not a believer.

 

[Braveheart81]

I would not be expecting any major improvement in QC (Quade Cooper)'s defensive capabilities, given that he is in his fourth or fifth year as a professional Rugby player.
He is what he is, if you pick him, you pick him knowing his frailties.

I think most of it is mental. He has the skill, bulk and athleticism.

He just has to get the mental side of it right and be ready to put his head down and body on the line.

Cooper is easily a good enough footballer that he can improve it.

 

[I like to watch]

Instinct is what makes a good footballer.
Both QC (Quade Cooper) and KB (Kurtley Beale) have improved their front on defence of big palooka's who are just trucking it up, where no decision has to be made.
Put them both in a position where they need to make decisions/adjustments and instincts fuck them up, as they are instinctively tentative, and often get caught with their weight on their heels.

 

[fatprop]

Put Beale back at 10, and see if he has changed.
I am not a believer.

Happy to see it, he sorted himself out and he has been solid ever since. I am not wanting to see Faainga style talent, Larkham level would do (and he is still thought to be rubbish by many English supporters).

 

[Scotty]

No, not ignoring, just not enough evidence of intent yet.

And no bending of the back, just arms so far.

edit

Cooper is afflicted now with the same, but different, preconceptions as TPN (can't throw), Barnes (weak head) etc etc

It takes a while, and sometimes never goes away completely.

But as I have said before, he is worth the gamble if we want to win

Have you watches him since he got back. Two try savers in one game alone.

 

[Jiggles]

Have you watches him since he got back. Two try savers in one game alone.

He saved a try, and possibly the match, against South Africa last year in Wellington. But that's largely ignored.

 

[fatprop]

Have you watches him since he got back. Two try savers in one game alone.

Absolutely and just like TPN, who is too often remembered for his missed lineouts, Cooper has to live with his missed tackles.

I have no doubt Cooper can save matches with great defensive efforts when he wants to.

 

[Richo]

He saved a try, and possibly the match, against South Africa last year in Wellington. But that's largely ignored.

Its very hard to shake perception of a weakness. People are simply more inclined to go on years of previous poor defense than a handful of games that are significantly improved. There's a logic to both approaches.

I'd say that Cooper's defense shows excellent signs of improvement but that needs to be more sustained for me to believe that he won't readily revert to being a defensive liability. That said, I'd have had him at 10 for Saturday - on attack and defense. If his defense has really improved, it would show. If not, the current base line would be clear and the powers that be could focus on addressing the problem -- without moving him to 15, that is.

 

[Happy]

Deans made the list of news.com's 10 All Blacks we hate the most:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby-...-different-story/story-fndptke0-1226452631716

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Jarse MIL says you only "hate" people you love or respect. That is good for me as most of the time I fall into the first category classification from La Jarses Mum.

What she is saying I think, is that you only invest the emotional energy to "hate" into those you either love or respect. If you have no respect or love for someone (or by inference a team), then you can't be bothered "hating" them. Just ignore them and invest some healthy hatred into a person or team deserving of your "hatred".

 

[Groucho]

Instinct is what makes a good footballer.
Both QC (Quade Cooper) and KB (Kurtley Beale) have improved their front on defence of big palooka's who are just trucking it up, where no decision has to be made.
Put them both in a position where they need to make decisions/adjustments and instincts fuck them up, as they are instinctively tentative, and often get caught with their weight on their heels.

That's not true of Beale at all. He's a great positional defender at fullback, often arriving at just the right time to make the crucial defensive play

 

[Richo]

Indeed. Kurtley is an excellent example of a player identifying and addressing weaknesses in a deliberate and effective manner. Tackling, high ball, etc.

 

[Bowside]

You could say the same about quade. Compared to his peers, he has improved out of sight since he was a flaky 16 year old at churchie. People forget how bad quade was during his early years that the reds. He's turned many reds fans from sceptics to believers.

 

[Athilnaur]

Cooper has already radically boosted his play as a defender in Super Rugby. He will be fine. Competition is good and he has some.

And going back to an earlier poster saying no one here supports Deans, I do. That might be because I grew up in NZ and see rugby slightly differently to many here, I don't know, but I can honestly say i relate to Deans selections and what he tries to do.

People here seem to think he doesn't want us to win, that he lacks passion. It is just not true. The kiwi culture is less brash than the aussie one. Don't make the mistake of confusing reservedness for a lack of commitment. Deans wants to win alright. He hates losing with a passion. All he is asking is that the playing group bring the same burning commitment.

 

[Joe Blow]

Ath. is Robbie Deans and I claim my Gr.&G coozie pack.

 

[Athilnaur]

Sadly not, or I'd be wracking my brains over my plan, searching for chinks in our armour to eliminate and chinks in theirs to exploit, rather than sharing my passion with fellow rugby nuts!

 

[ACT Crusader]

Cooper has already radically boosted his play as a defender in Super Rugby. He will be fine. Competition is good and he has some.

And going back to an earlier poster saying no one here supports Deans, I do. That might be because I grew up in NZ and see rugby slightly differently to many here, I don't know, but I can honestly say i relate to Deans selections and what he tries to do.

People here seem to think he doesn't want us to win, that he lacks passion. It is just not true. The kiwi culture is less brash than the aussie one. Don't make the mistake of confusing reservedness for a lack of commitment. Deans wants to win alright. He hates losing with a passion. All he is asking is that the playing group bring the same burning commitment.

I'm not a "told you so" kind of poster, but I had massive reservations about this move by Deans. You can look up some of my posts on here or on the Fern and see that the biggest hurdle I saw in this appointment is the cultural obstacles Deans would be faced with. Deans grew up in the NZ rugby environment, became an AB in the amateur era when the ABs were no nonsense but revered by the NZ public. He became a successful coach in the provincial ranks understanding intricately all levels of NZ rugby. He knew what it took and how players got to the top in NZ. He saw it. He lived and breathed it. He knew what the players went through and knew how to connect with them on a real personal level which is a huge factor in getting people to buy in and also get the best out of them.

Ironically Henry mentioned this "psyche" stuff in his interview this morning with Fran Kelly on ABC - ie coaching your own nation and how that was so very different to when he was at Wales.

Anyway, Deans had little knowledge of OZ and really only had his NZ and AB experience to draw on. He couldn't talk about any glory days at Eastwood or playing/coaching for Queensland ripping it up. All of that intangible stuff is very important IMO when dealing with a bunch of early-mid 20 year olds carving out a career that not only demands professionalism but demands that inner stuff of passion, playing for the mate next to you, and pushing beyond physical boundaries when its just mental.

Maybe I'm getting a bit carried away with this stuff, but Deans was pushing it up hill big time coming to his geographical neighbours but in rugby terms couldn't be more far apart IMHO.

This not to say there have some poor results and some very good ones (to me at least Australia's WC was pretty good - it took one hell of a performance to beat the Boks and then a huge effort by the ABs to beat the Wallabies in the semi) which Deans should be critiqued - no issue there. But even 4 years on I still think that buy in is not there so it always seems like things are right, disjointed, not on the same page, weird, prickly, confusing - all rolled into one......