So, who here thinks Deans is the coach we need?

[louie]

I just don't think a coach change is going make us better than the ABs consistently at the moment.

i have no problem with us losing to the ABs. It's against lower sides and at home that's the problem. Our players don't seem motivated under Deans.

 

[Richo]

BH, I think you're right in saying that players need to improve. But I just don't see how sensible substitutions, structured attack and clear game plans wouldn't make a difference. Maybe the players are failing repeatedly to get the latter two right. But since these things seem to be average no matter who is playing, it suggests poor coaching.

Why not fix something that is clearly broken? Deans has had 5 years. How many more does he need? Link or whoever won't immediately transform the team, but they would likely put it on better footing than it has been.

 

[fatprop]

i have no problem with us losing to the ABs. It's against lower sides and at home that's the problem. Our players don't seem motivated under Deans.

I am not against a change, I just don't see it getting us to beating the All Blacks 2 times out of three at the moment.

 

[BDA]

I Honestly I think Deans has to get some results this year or its time to give Link a shot. I’m not necessarily saying we have to win the tri-nations, because the All Blacks are still the best by some way imo. I would however like to see the following:-

1. I’d like to see us win our home games. This is not a lot to ask for and in days gone by it would take something special for the opposition to get one up on the Wallabies at home. The Wallabies should lift a gear at home, but unfortunately you very rarely see it during the Deans Era (the final game of the tri-nations last year was the exception to the rule). It’s this lack of home town pride which makes me wonder whether we do in fact need an Aussie couching our boys rather than an ex-All black. Deans doesn’t seem to inspire much patriotism for our boys and this is a problem.

1. I don’t want to see any embarrassing defeats. This has been a trade mark of Deans’ reign. The games against Scotland, Samoa, the game in South Africa 2008, the All Blacks defeat in Melbourne in 2010. It has become a trademark of the Australian team. It reeks of a lack of game plan.

1. I’d like to see some god damn consistency in every area of the game. Deans has created a bloody bi-polar circus act of a team. One week our scrum will be going forward, the next week it appears the guys were told it would be uncontested scrums. Defence will be solid and aggressive, then all of a sudden we’ve forgotten how to defend. I don’t know what’s going on at the training sessions but it seems like there is consistently an area being neglected.

Deans should be given credit for blooding young players to give us a bit of depth, but he has hardly created a ‘style of play’ for the wallabies. Phil Moody did a good job blooding young players but you don’t see him coaching our national team.

In my view Deans was probably our weakest link at the world cup. His selections were atrocious. He picked out of form players, and players that had never been in form (Maafu?!). Every man and his dog could see that a failure to pick a specialist back-up no.7 was going to cost the Wallabies. We were tactically dominated by the Irish. We seemed to change our whole game plan for the World Cup, playing a territory game rather than playing to our strengths. Cooper was asked to play a game plan that he wasn’t suited to. Giteau was more suited to that game plan but he wasn’t chosen. I have no problem with us playing a territory game plan but why change your approach so late in the piece. It was all very confusing and disappointing and I have had no confidence in Deans since then. I’m not sure I could handle having Robbie at the reigns at the next World Cup.

I hope Deans proves me wrong but I would wager he won’t. We won’t win all of our home games this year. The scrums, line-outs and defensive and attacking patterns will swing wildly in quality through-out the tournament. We will get trounced by someone, dare I say beaten by Argentina.

The talent that Deans has at his disposal is as good as, if not better than, Jones and Connelly had. He has the world’s best no.7, a solid group of forwards, the world’s best halfback and enough talent in the backline to score tries off set pieces and counter attack. A full strength line-up would go close to the All Blacks (whilst the All Blacks have much better quality in depth).

Next year is a show piece year for the Wallabies with the Lions tour. If we need a new coach, next year is the year to make the change. That’ll give the new coach two years to build a side and decide on a game plan. And it must be an Aussie – step up Link.

 

[Braveheart81]

One of our problems is that we lose most of our home ground advantage against the All Blacks due to the numbers of Kiwis who either live here or travel here for the games.

BWhy not fix something that is clearly broken? Deans has had 5 years. How many more does he need? Link or whoever won't immediately transform the team, but they would likely put it on better footing than it has been.

We continue to make mistakes in our appointments. Deans shouldn't have had his contract renewed prior to the RWC. We end up hamstrung by decisions that are incorrect to begin with but then cause more problems if they are reversed.

The same can be said for the Waratahs appointment of Michael Foley without a proper search for a new coach.

If we have a poor TRC then it could easily be said that we've got nothing to lose in ditching Deans straight away and replacing him for the EOYT so the new coach at least has some lead time for the Lions tour. If we have a modest TRC then it is probably hard to ditch him before the Lions tour. I'd say that winning against the Springboks and Pumas at home is probably just enough for Deans to keep his job even though every rugby fan in Australia will be bitterly disappointed.

Thanks to the ARU re-signing Deans, they probably can't afford to sack him from a financial perspective.

 

[chasmac]

I wouldn't have a problem with Deans if we were reaching our potential. The losses to Samoa and Scotland are particularly galling because we played so poorly.
Scott Allens video analysis highlights basic flaws in the Wallabies.
I'd prefer McKenzie as the coach

 

[daz]

For anyone who has been on these forum (fori? forumeses?) since Deans was appointed, you will all know my feelings about him.

Perfect, I said when he was appointed.

Give the bloke time, I said when we had a rough start and dropped some games that would normally have had a Wallabies coach quietly dragged off to be put down like a busted racehorse.

Here we go, trophy time! I said at the start of every international tournament since 2008.

I've defended him without fear for nearly 5 years. I believed in his vision and when I was able to understand what he was saying, I agreed with it.

So what am I saying at the start of 2012? I could not be happier to see the back of him. It's over. It was over the moment we walked away from RWC11 with our tails between our legs.

And JON can go with him. I'm a senior manager, held to very clear and understood KPI's. My boss does not lower my KPI's (or even ignore them!) if I don't deliver on my promises.

1) Win 75% and Deans is going well. No, actually, 60% is ok. Forget I said 75%. Fuck, 50%? Yeah, that'll do.

2) Win the Bledisloe in your first year Robbie. Oh, you know what, make it your 5th year. That will be fine. Not even then? well, lets just win it one day.

3) Gotta win the RWC11 Robbie. Everything else can be forgiven if you bring back Bill. Knocked out in the semi's after a poor pool effort put you right on the wrong side of the draw? No worries mate. Have another 2 years. In fact, I reckon you can have another go at RWC15, that was the real target.

God forbid this is what JON says to Robbie for 2013:

4) Don't worry about the Lions, mate! Just show up and that will be a tick in the box.



Sorry Robbie and JON. It's over. A good idea worth having a crack at, but it didn't work.

Get Link on the phone, pronto.

 

[Richo]

BH, you're probably right about the timing.

I suppose my question would be whether it's any worse to keep Deans on than give someone else minimal lead-up time? Assuming it's Link, he'd be familiar with all the players and very familiar with a third of them. Yes, it would be very hard, but I'm increasingly worried that the Lions Tour will be very, very ugly if we stick to the current script, or lack thereof.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the ARU board is leaving plenty to be desired.

The re-appointment of O'Neill and Deans before the RWC which was almost certainly going to be a milestone in both careers was just ridiculous.

Cricket Australia did a similar thing where they re-appointed Tim Nielsen as coach before the Ashes and then we got flogged. The official line was that it was to show the confidence and solidarity in the coach and organisation.

All those appointments would look fine IF results had gone well. When they don't, the appointments look ridiculous and become hard to reverse. Cricket Australia got themselves out of a hole by changing the specifications of the coach role and effectively making it so Nielsen had to reapply for his job and they could pick a new coach.

So it's not just happening in the ARU, but why do the boards allow these decisions to be made that so obviously come with a huge amount of risk?

 

[No4918]

The statement shown on the rugby club that was attributed to JON has me very concerned. It gave the impression that a trophy in the next 2 year's would make it likely that Deans is put on. KPI's, what KPI's?

That would make 2 trophys out of a possible 12 just factoring Bledisloe and TN/TRC.

 

[SaderCheif]

So... Link is the coach 'Straya deserves but not the one it needs right now?

Sorry.....

 

[rugbysmartarse]

One of our problems is that we lose most of our home ground advantage against the All Blacks due to the numbers of Kiwis who either live here or travel here for the games.
snip

I have to disagree with this comment BH. Home ground is more than the number of fans at the venue. It's more than how loud the crowd gets during the game. Its about defending your turf. About not being beaten within the sound of your own church bells, as the Spiro tells me the French say. About never giving up in your own yard. Its about pride. Pride in yourselves, pride in your jersey, and pride in never losing at home.

 

[Braveheart81]

There was a study done on US Sports in 2011 which came to the conclusion that much of home ground advantage is based on referee bias driven by the home crowd.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/12...advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/

This is further indicated by another study done on the German Bundesliga which indicated that home ground advantage was lessened in stadiums which had an athletics track making the crowd further away from the pitch and the referees.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp755.pdf

I get what you're saying about pride etc. but I remain pretty convinced by the crowd factor influencing referees etc. If half our crowd is Kiwis, we lose some of that crowd advantage.

I think the most obvious influence in rugby is that more forward passes get called in favour of the home team due to the audible cries from the crowd when it happens against the home side and not against the visiting side.

 

[It is what it is]

The team selections and gameplan for the irish match were formulated by deans. He chose not to select a fetcher and instead opted for a journeyman no 8 to fill the open-side flanker position. He chose the rookie 12 McCabe whose running style was exploited all night and constantly left us on the backfoot. He chose a pack containing an injured and out of form vickerman, an injured and out of form Elsom, and a prop who was clearly not upto the standard. No surprise the pack was compressively beaten.

It's not like his hand was forced with these decisions either. He had other options in everyone of the above positions. Many on this board made this point before the game.

He was out coached by a bloke that most irish rate as a pretty average coach. His team was beaten by a team that in the grand scheme of things, was a pretty average team. It was simply not an acceptable result all things considered.

Agree with your thoughts, but his biggest selection mistake was in selecting Polota Nau. When Moore withdrew he should have gone for Fainga'a who was fit and match hardened.
Polota Nau hadn't played for ages, wasn't fit and at his best is an average lineout thrower.
Interestingly he hadn't been throwing to any of the Wallaby team's jumpers for months as Vickerman didn't play Super Rugby last year. Conversely Fainga'a had thrown all season to Horwill and Samo in the starting side, as well as Simmons and Higginbotham who were coming off the bench.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

At the time the decision was made, I was happy Deans was chosen. His was the best record of all the candidates and it was hard to deny that he'd done great things with the Crusaders. Like Daz, I thought the beginning of his tenure was fantastic. We beat the AB's in Sydney and if memory serves, also knocked off the Boks in their house for the first time in a good while. Then we lost 10 on the trot to the All Blacks, then got beaten by Scotland, then by Samoa, then had a poor RWC. The tactics during the knockout stage of the RWC last year were among the worst I can remember.

He's developed a good amount of young talent for the Wallabies and they are blossoming. The future looks pretty good with the young playing list we have and they are only going to improve from here.

In my view, we need to beat the All Blacks this year and the Boks as well if he's to keep his job. The time for development and excuses has ceased, results are now what counts. He's had the job for nearly five years and it's about time we saw some payback on the investment. Most senior coaches would have been flicked by now in most football codes with his record. This season is it, or we put Link in charge for the EOYT and then the Lions next year.

 

[Braveheart81]

I bet Reds fans will be cheering extra hard for the Wallabies in The Rugby Championship.

If Link was made Wallabies coach for the EOYT, guess who would be head coach at the Reds next season?

 

[Bowside]

Agree with your thoughts, but he's biggest selection mistake was in selecting Polota Nau. When Moore withdrew he should have gone for Fainga'a who was fit and match hardened.
Polota Nau hadn't played for ages, wasn't fit and at his best is an average lineout thrower.
Interestingly he hadn't been throwing to any of the Wallaby team's jumpers for months as Vickerman didn't play Super Rugby last year. Conversely Fainga'a had thrown all season to Horwill and Samo in the starting side, as well as Simmons and Higginbotham who were coming off the bench.

I think ultimately TPN is a better player, but I agree that on that night Fainga'a was most defiantly the man for the job.

I irish were able to slow the game down at every stoppage. We needed to counteract this and play at a speed that they are not capable of. Instead we had TPN on one knee at every stoppage needing some magic water and a few words of encouragement from the trainer.

He does the same thing for the tahs and it really kills any attacking momentum and pressure the team has. If I was coaching him I'd tell him he's going off if he holds up the play at any point.

 

[Braveheart81]

That happened far less in 2012 than it has in previous years. Apart from the couple of times he got knocked out or close to, he had far less injury breaks than previous years.

I agree that it needs to stop. There aren't many teams the Wallabies play where a slow, stoppage filled game will suit us.

 

[Brumbieman]

Full-strength backline the best in the world? Who is this full-strength backline you are referring to? I think the Kiwi's have a very strong case for this title - definitely this season and more than likely last season too.

At the moment the Wobs are rated the 2nd best team in the world. Yes, they can certainly iron out the inconsistency in their game as they shouldn't ever lose to the likes of Scotland and Samoa. Possibly also snatch a win or two more than they have at home against the All Blacks in the last couple of seasons too. But do they have a better 15 full-strength players available than All Blacks do?

Props - All Blacks by some distance
Hooker - Probably Wallabies slightly.
Second Row - Even
Back Row - All Blacks (Wallabies probably better at 7, All Blacks better at 6 and 8)
Scrumhalf - Wallabies
Flyhalf - All Blacks (probably number 1 and 2 with Carter and Cruden ahead of Cooper/Barnes)
Centres - All Blacks
Wingers - Even
Fullback - Even

Agree that at times Deans' selections are mystifying even from an outsider's perspective. But cannot agree that he has a better 15 players available to select than the AB's do.

No, we may not.

What we should be able to do, and waht served us very well in the past, is to select astutely, get whoever we select to play as a TEAM (Rob Horne going 95% of the way to butchering two potentially series winning/losing tries by being selfish is the perfect example), create smart game PLANS to outwit a team with superior quality players, etc etc.



Deans has so far exhibited diddly fucking squat of those qualities. Link has demonstrated many of them in his tenure with the Tahs and Reds. Remember the 2009/2010 Reds forward pack? 2, perhaps three internationals? Yet they took apart international laden forward packs with ease by being well coached, and working as a team. The perfect example is their dismantling of the Stormers in 2011. Went over there and utterly crushed the Stormers pack by playing a perfectly executed tight grinding game. The next week they rocked up and scored 6 tries.

Or getting the best out of players. Why is Genia superb at Super level, and then mediocre at best, resorting to shit box kicks and slow ruck service? Sure, the quality of the team is higher at Bledisloe level, but they're the same opposing players. When one player is suddenly better at a different level under a different coach, you've gotta go with Occam's razor.....


THAT is what a good coach can do, and what Deans has failed to do.

Therefore, Dingo can sod off.

 

[Brumbieman]

For anyone who has been on these forum (fori? forumeses?) since Deans was appointed, you will all know my feelings about him.

Perfect, I said when he was appointed.

Give the bloke time, I said when we had a rough start and dropped some games that would normally have had a Wallabies coach quietly dragged off to be put down like a busted racehorse.

Here we go, trophy time! I said at the start of every international tournament since 2008.

I've defended him without fear for nearly 5 years. I believed in his vision and when I was able to understand what he was saying, I agreed with it.

So what am I saying at the start of 2012? I could not be happier to see the back of him. It's over. It was over the moment we walked away from RWC11 with our tails between our legs.

And JON can go with him. I'm a senior manager, held to very clear and understood KPI's. My boss does not lower my KPI's (or even ignore them!) if I don't deliver on my promises.

1) Win 75% and Deans is going well. No, actually, 60% is ok. Forget I said 75%. Fuck, 50%? Yeah, that'll do.

2) Win the Bledisloe in your first year Robbie. Oh, you know what, make it your 5th year. That will be fine. Not even then? well, lets just win it one day.

3) Gotta win the RWC11 Robbie. Everything else can be forgiven if you bring back Bill. Knocked out in the semi's after a poor pool effort put you right on the wrong side of the draw? No worries mate. Have another 2 years. In fact, I reckon you can have another go at RWC15, that was the real target.

God forbid this is what JON says to Robbie for 2013:

4) Don't worry about the Lions, mate! Just show up and that will be a tick in the box.



Sorry Robbie and JON. It's over. A good idea worth having a crack at, but it didn't work.

Get Link on the phone, pronto.

A-fucking-men!