Six Nations 2014

[fatprop]

Did you get a bit of an end of an era about Wales? The props are past it, and a lot of Gatland ball was based around Hair Bears solidity. Phillips was raging against the dying of the light and Jonny Sexton totalled Roberts towards the end of the game. Don't get me wrong, in Jon Davies, Hibbard, North and halfpenny there are still some great players in the side with years in front of them but there are some on the way out and Adam Jones in particular will be nearly as hard for you to replace as BOD will be for Ireland.

The Welsh play Kiwi-lite rugby under Gatland, get over the gain line with big units, play with continuity, play at pace with solid set piece.

The Irish, simply stopped them at the gain line and made them play from deep whilst pressuring their set piece. They played very well blottin out the Welsh strengths, but the Irish attack was pretty average

 

[Wales Fan]

Did you get a bit of an end of an era about Wales? The props are past it, and a lot of Gatland ball was based around Hair Bears solidity. Phillips was raging against the dying of the light and Jonny Sexton totalled Roberts towards the end of the game. Don't get me wrong, in Jon Davies, Hibbard, North and halfpenny there are still some great players in the side with years in front of them but there are some on the way out and Adam Jones in particular will be nearly as hard for you to replace as BOD will be for Ireland.

While I don't disagree with your point, I think it says more about Gatlands inability to alter his selection policy than an end of an era.
Adam Jones - totally, a huge void when he finishes. We do have a young kid at the Scarlets in Samson Lee who's going to be a very good tighthead. Unfortunately Gatland sees more in his regional colleague Rhodri Jones even though he's about 4th choice there. Not saying he won't be a good player in time, but the other option is better now. Gatland is so blinkered at times. Lee Byrne was jettisoned too early, James Hook is pretty much ignored.
There are good young looseheads available to Wales but he'd rather pick a not match fit Gethin Jenkins who seems held together by sticky tape these days.
Joe Schmidt said Ireland had an advantage upfront because Wales had a few forwards not match fit. It showed.
The Welsh backline as a whole is still very young, Roberts ran onto one pass at pace in the 2nd half and went through O'Driscoll like he wasn't there. I've always been of the opinion the Welsh backline when it works is in spite of Phillips and not because of him. We'd be far more potent in attack with a scrum half who'd just concentrate on a swift service and not getting into scuffles.
Time for Warren to take a long hard look in the mirror.

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[boyo]

The Welsh play Kiwi-lite rugby under Gatland, get over the gain line with big units, play with continuity, play at pace with solid set piece.

The Irish, simply stopped them at the gain line and made them play from deep whilst pressuring their set piece. They played very well blottin out the Welsh strengths, but the Irish attack was pretty average

Maybe some teams have worked out Gatlandball.

 

[fatprop]

Maybe some teams have worked out Gatlandball.

Yeah the Wobs have, after playing the ABs so regularly‎, Gatlandball is slow motion

 

[JSRF10]

Wales faced the same problems they have had regularly since Gatland took over. If their forwards and scrum don't get on top they look blunt in attack. Gatland has never done anything to fix this and despite the quality in their side from 11 through 15 I think that it will all end in tears at the World Cup.

On a side note I heard in commentry that Warburton has only won 1 of the last 11 games he has captained for Wales, was surprised when I heard this but then Wales have been terrible outside the 6 Nations for some time.

 

[Highlander35]

All I can say, is Thank fuck I was outside internet range for those first 2 weekends.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Wales faced the same problems they have had regularly since Gatland took over. If their forwards and scrum don't get on top they look blunt in attack. Gatland has never done anything to fix this and despite the quality in their side from 11 through 15 I think that it will all end in tears at the World Cup.

On a side note I heard in commentry that Warburton has only won 1 of the last 11 games he has captained for Wales, was surprised when I heard this but then Wales have been terrible outside the 6 Nations for some time.

With the greatest respect to our Welsh friends on G&GR, I hope so!

 

[Cardiffblue]

Did you get a bit of an end of an era about Wales? The props are past it, and a lot of Gatland ball was based around Hair Bears solidity. Phillips was raging against the dying of the light and Jonny Sexton totalled Roberts towards the end of the game. Don't get me wrong, in Jon Davies, Hibbard, North and halfpenny there are still some great players in the side with years in front of them but there are some on the way out and Adam Jones in particular will be nearly as hard for you to replace as BOD will be for Ireland.

Definitely got that impression especially melon (who wasn't 100%) and Adam. To continue your quote am left reflecting how bright their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay. And you are right we've built a team around a rock solid scrum. Cement is going to have to totally rethink line out. Philips is a good player but we desperately need a successor. Outside backs are still good but as Saturday showed that's not much good if the forwards are going backwards. Still, France looked as bizarre as ever and in cement we trust. He's got two weeks to reorganise and the problems are obvious. I think he made the biggest tactical blunder of his coaching career in not competing the line outs and he has to get players over the ball competing in rucks.

 

[Cardiffblue]

I think Ireland will have to very careful when they go to mordor. The orc pack will not make the same mistake we did and I' think they will need a plan b to the 10 man game. But I would love to see sexton humble farrell.

 

[the plastic paddy]

All I can say, is Thank fuck I was outside internet range for those first 2 weekends.

Have to say, there is no enjoyment in seeing Scotland struggle, to quote Murray Low's lip read comment from saturday, on that "fucking pitch". Scott Johnson doesn't help and injury to Visser has robbed you of a serious weapon. I don't understand Richie Gray's ommision or Kelly Brown for that matter. I hope the players can turn it around but it is looking very grim.

 

[the plastic paddy]

I think Ireland will have to very careful when they go not mordor. The orc pack will not make the same mistake we did and I' think they will need a plan b to the 10 man game. But I would love to see sexton humble farrell.

I agree, and England are priced up as strong favourites which is entirely right. The thing with Schmidt teams, is they are quite happy changing their style which makes them very hard to play against. Ireland put the ball through the hands against Scotland but, ever the pragmatist, JS looked at the brutal weather forecast and doctored his game to suit the conditions. The received wisdom is that kicking to Wales is madness but if the kicking is deadly accurate and the chase ruthless you can stop the men children running. I wouldn't be too sure how Ireland will approach the England game, the weather could be a factor again with this perpetual rain, but they could just as easily keep it in hand and move the Orcs about. As we have seen in the HEC, the English and French players are extremely big and powerful but that can hurt teams in the final quarter as carrying the bulk about starts to tell on the lungs. Really looking forward to it and also the Friday night game in Cardiff which I think the Welsh could well win. Adam Jones will be two weeks fitter and I suspect Gatland could well look at Warburton at 6 with Tipuric 7. I also wonder if Bradley Davies might come back in, Evans is a massive loss, to add a bit of ballast and abrasion something that Jake Ball also brings to the party. Phillips might well turn it around as well because PSA insists on starting the wrong scrum half and he will have a point to prove after being schooled by Conor Murray and completely losing the head. I think the clamour to bring in Biggar or Hook will be fairly deafening as well and I expect to see Samson Lee feature.

I think there will have to be some sort of ceasefire in the civil war as well, it cannot be easy to concentrate on the game with the shitfest going on in the background. The rumour was that today was the day for the AW league to be announced, after saturday's debacle I hope RRW push on because they will be damned by the Welsh public for whom the national team is the overwhelming priority.

 

[Cardiffblue]

I think there will have to be some sort of ceasefire in the civil war as well, it cannot be easy to concentrate on the game with the shitfest going on in the background. The rumour was that today was the day for the AW league to be announced, after saturday's debacle I hope RRW push on because they will be damned by the Welsh public for whom the national team is the overwhelming priority.

Don't underestimate our propensity for tribal warfare. I hope gatland can keep the players away from the onslaught that must be raging. Still remember the destruction of the 87 rwc team that caused jiffy to say bugger this for a bunch of bananas. I really don't have an answer but the game globally is not in a good place ATM. It's just more acute in wales where rugby is everything. I don't know how the wru is going to handle it but I do know that planned economies with central contracts are as surely doomed to fail as communist economies were. They are hugely wasteful with inordinate amounts being paid to keep players who the May well end up injured and new player development goes to pot. The increasing numbers of incompetent administrators pay themselves increasing amounts. The result is inevitable. The aru is as close to bankruptcy as the nh regional franchises. The top 14 is like a modern day mill on the Meuse grinding through players at an astonishing rate and serving up sludge. Scotland has never coped with professionalism. The next step is for unions to break away and make separate arrangements with TV. I reckon we are one step away from Sa England and France setting up their own comp in order to protect their income and survive. Just like orcland did in football when they kicked the other home nations in the teeth and ditched the home international championship in order to avoid losing to lesser nations with lower tv audiences

The answer?

 

[Cardiffblue]

Perhaps the answer is to spend the next two weeks watching men in Lycra hurtling down ice tracks on tea trays and not worry about it. But it is difficult

 

[Cardiffblue]

Maybe some teams have worked out Gatlandball.

Nah. But for it to work the forwards have got go forward. We were way off the organisation of the Irish pack

 

[the plastic paddy]

I have to say that I find the suspicion about central contracts really bizarre. Even if you didn't go down the Irish root of full union ownership, the English model of EPS is fairly close to a central contract system. I just don't see what there is that is so frightening about it. The amazing thing is that in the Island of Ireland, which lets face it,has had some real conflicts over things that really matter within painfully close memory, there is such unanimity about the benefits of our structure. And we have signed up all our best players beyond the next RWC bar Sexton, who was expected to smash open the floodgates but the opposite has happened and we have attracted Robin Copeland back home as well.

 

[JSRF10]

I think Ireland will have to very careful when they go to mordor. The orc pack will not make the same mistake we did and I' think they will need a plan b to the 10 man game. But I would love to see sexton humble farrell.

England like Wales have a predictable yet effective game plan if it gets going. England are trying to broaden their attack but their game is still based around a rock solid defence, an accurate goal kicker and a great kicking game in open play. Schmidt, Plumtree and Kiss will have a plan for this our attacking game is in need of work but I don't think we're a 10 man rugby team. I've seen enough over the November tests and the recent 6 Nations games to suggest we can open up if needs be. Just under 2 weeks out I think we'll target their scrum, and try to within a score with 25 to go and unleash Jack McGrath on Cole and see if he can do a similar job to Tom Court who destroyed Cole in the last 30 in the Heineken Cup winning the game for Ulster.

I don't know how the wru is going to handle it but I do know that planned economies with central contracts are as surely doomed to fail as communist economies were.

Lets be fair the club game isn't soccer, every club/province/franchise is funded by their union, France aside. The funding for the Irish teams comes 85% from the international game, rugby is a niche sport in a tiny corner of the sporting universe. Club rugby will never be self sustaining and will always rely on the international game as it is a means to an end, it is really only for the nerds within the rugby niche. Central contracts are necessary and all but one of the World Cups have been won by teams who use them to manage their international talent which is all that really needs to be said on their effectiveness.

 

[Cardiffblue]

The bit about the benefits of planned economies re rwc is true. I like everything you have said. But the power of the free market will break this hegemony. I'm not even sure they would survive a bosman test case for free trade if someone were to challenge the right of a star player to play for their country. If aw league breaks with unions then it's going to be tough. My bet is still that rfu ffr and sarfu break away leaving us and you right royally screwed

 

[the plastic paddy]

The bit about the benefits of planned economies re rwc is true. I like everything you have said. But the power of the free market will break this hegemony. I'm not even sure they would survive a bosman test case for free trade if someone were to challenge the right of a star player to play for their country. If aw league breaks with unions then it's going to be tough. My bet is still that rfu ffr and sarfu break away leaving us and you right royally screwed

I don't think the sporting world under the EU is quite the free market you think CB. I will dig up some of the legal stuff from the MF thread on this subject and post it on the NH rugby thread, makes for very interesting reading. Have to say as well that this issue is of massive significance for the SH nations.

 

[Cardiffblue]

I don't think the sporting world under the EU is quite the free market you think CB. I will dig up some of the legal stuff from the MF thread on this subject and post it on the NH rugby thread, makes for very interesting reading. Have to say as well that this issue is of massive significance for the SH nations.

I'll be sure to read it. And you are right this affects the whole world especially Australia where rugby is a minority sport. In fact I am extremely worried about the state of the game world wide. The costs have spiralled and the money available from tv is keeping us alive. But I listen to the lengths that pundits will go to promote orcland uber alles and think it would take nothing for them to decide to break with 6n. My concern re aw league is that if it goes ahead it will undermine rfu and could be the trigger for them to grab the cash and go their own way with the saffers and frogs. The only positive will be vindication for hating them

 

[the plastic paddy]

English rugby supporters love the six nations though CB. Even when they are getting beaten they take a weird jingoistic pleasure in, "everyone playing better against us". Complete bollix of course but the six nations and the Lions serves to reaffirm the English sense of superiority which is like a three year olds cuddly blanket. PRL are irrelevant to most English rugby fans, if you carefully explain the full situation a lot of English rugby supporters realise this is about who is in charge of the game club or country and most people side with country.