Shute Shield 2018

[meatpie]

I watched a replay of the TV game with Wests and Gordon. I cant critize the Gordon players heart and commitment, for the most part they tried their outmost and wore the tartan with pride but the player quality and skill level was really lacking. The cattle just isn’t there (not sure if it is a recruitment issue or players leaving etc), I couldn’t find a player that would be a regular first grader at any other club. The good news is their colts. Focus most be on nurturing them into grade rather than rushing them into grade and at the same time managing players expectations. It’s hard for players to go back to Second grade or third grade after playing a season in first grade (despite not being first grade caliber). Gordon will compete with teams all year on heart alone but hopefully with the new coach, he can attract the class of players that will be competitive with every team all season long.

 

[wamberal]

It does seem passing strange that a club smack bang in the middle of the leafy north shore is in this situation.

 

[Heavyd]

It does seem passing strange that a club smack bang in the middle of the leafy north shore is in this situation.

Within 5km there is subbies clubs Lindfield, Brothers, Knox Old Boys, Barker Old Boys and St Ives. Unless they are recruiting from the bush, interstate or pacific islands it’s a tight rugby market.

 

[wamberal]

Okay, but surely subbies can also be a stepping stone to grade, as well?

 

[Heavyd]

Okay, but surely subbies can also be a stepping stone to grade, as well?

Yes but big step to Shute Shield.

 

[Quick Hands]

I watched a replay of the TV game with Wests and Gordon. I cant critize the Gordon players heart and commitment, for the most part they tried their outmost and wore the tartan with pride but the player quality and skill level was really lacking. The cattle just isn’t there (not sure if it is a recruitment issue or players leaving etc), I couldn’t find a player that would be a regular first grader at any other club. The good news is their colts. Focus most be on nurturing them into grade rather than rushing them into grade and at the same time managing players expectations. It’s hard for players to go back to Second grade or third grade after playing a season in first grade (despite not being first grade caliber). Gordon will compete with teams all year on heart alone but hopefully with the new coach, he can attract the class of players that will be competitive with every team all season long.

Gordon have never really recovered since they sold their club across the road and swapped it for a soulless room in the Mandarin Centre. Think that they lost a bit of cash and ongoing income as a result.

 

[Quick Hands]

Within 5km there is subbies clubs Lindfield, Brothers, Knox Old Boys, Barker Old Boys and St Ives. Unless they are recruiting from the bush, interstate or pacific islands it’s a tight rugby market.

I think Norths would be their biggest opposition in terms of grade players, although there would be some potential lower graders who would prefer any of those subbies clubs for a range of personal reasons - family life, job etc.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think Norths would be their biggest opposition in terms of grade players, although there would be some potential lower graders who would prefer any of those subbies clubs for a range of personal reasons - family life, job etc.

I reckon that Chatswood to say Pymble neck of the woods would be an area of Sydney that has undergone a lot of change - hinted at by the name of the building into which Gordon moved.
In the early 80s they had a good connection with Chatswood high which produced a heap of CHS and NSW Schools kids over a few years. North Sydney Boys played and there was a good connection there. Then ku-ringai high (Blades ?, Allens) was a feeder. So with the demise of rugby in the high schools they have probably lost their engine room and one of their other feeders in shore has had a bit of slide recently too.
At the critical time - late 80s early 90s - they had some old farts running the joint one of whom said to me “there’ll be professional rugby in this club over my dead body”: so I don’t think they were com0letely up to date with developments and 98 probably saw out the last of the bl9kes who’d come up under all these influences.
North’s were of course out of the 1st division picture - thanks to a Monaghan field goal I think - during the period to about 91.

 

[Quick Hands]

I reckon that Chatswood to say Pymble neck of the woods would be an area of Sydney that has undergone a lot of change - hinted at by the name of the building into which Gordon moved.
In the early 80s they had a good connection with Chatswood high which produced a heap of CHS and NSW Schools kids over a few years. North Sydney Boys played and there was a good connection there. Then ku-ringai high (Blades ?, Allens) was a feeder. So with the demise of rugby in the high schools they have probably lost their engine room and one of their other feeders in shore has had a bit of slide recently too.
At the critical time - late 80s early 90s - they had some old farts running the joint one of whom said to me “there’ll be professional rugby in this club over my dead body”: so I don’t think they were com0letely up to date with developments and 98 probably saw out the last of the bl9kes who’d come up under all these influences.
North’s were of course out of the 1st division picture - thanks to a Monaghan field goal I think - during the period to about 91.

^^^Norths return and the start of Gordon's demise occurred about the same time. Suspect that Norths have a more forward thinking and competent administration (as noted above in part of your post).

I watched 5 hours of Nw v Scots 14s rugby on Saturday and there was a fair sprinking of kids of SE Asian background in both schools playing rugby, so while it's not a natural rugby demographic I think that clubs are unwise to dismiss youngsters of that heritage as not going to play rugby.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^Norths return and the start of Gordon's demise occurred about the same time. Suspect that Norths have a more forward thinking and competent administration (as noted above in part of your post).

I watched 5 hours of Nw v Scots 14s rugby on Saturday and there was a fair sprinking of kids of SE Asian background in both schools playing rugby, so while it's not a natural rugby demographic I think that clubs are unwise to dismiss youngsters of that heritage as not going to play rugby.

Agree entirely. But the mums don’t.

 

[Up the Guts]

Gordon Colts are doing reasonably well at the moment in a couple of years they may have a decent team, if they can hold onto them that is.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^Norths return and the start of Gordon's demise occurred about the same time. Suspect that Norths have a more forward thinking and competent administration (as noted above in part of your post).

I watched 5 hours of Nw v Scots 14s rugby on Saturday and there was a fair sprinking of kids of SE Asian background in both schools playing rugby, so while it's not a natural rugby demographic I think that clubs are unwise to dismiss youngsters of that heritage as not going to play rugby.

We are nuts for ignoring kids of SE/South Asian background. Missing out on a lot of potential interest. I actually played with an Indian kid in my younger days. Dinesh. Best fullback I've played with. Quick, skilful and impressively tough.

 

[wamberal]

We are nuts for ignoring kids of SE/South Asian background. Missing out on a lot of potential interest. I actually played with an Indian kid in my younger days. Dinesh. Best fullback I've played with. Quick, skilful and impressively quick.

I am not sure that we are necessarily ignoring them. The bigger problem is that the parents of kids with this sort of background place a very high premium on academic achievement, and sooner or later that will mean that there is less time and interest in sport. Particularly professional sport. Much better to have a profession. Maybe these families are ignoring us, in favour of study and career potential outside sport.

From my limited understanding, academically selective schools just do not give much time or attention to competitive sport. And it is the academically selective schools that these kids are being prepared for.

If they are being coached, it is academic coaching, not the sporting variety.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I am not sure that we are necessarily ignoring them. The bigger problem is that the parents of kids with this sort of background place a very high premium on academic achievement, and sooner or later that will mean that there is less time and interest in sport. Particularly professional sport. Much better to have a profession. Maybe these families are ignoring us, in favour of study and career potential outside sport.

From my limited understanding, academically selective schools just do not give much time or attention to competitive sport. And it is the academically selective schools that these kids are being prepared for.

If they are being coached, it is academic coaching, not the sporting variety.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. First of all, not every kid of SE/South Asian descent goes to a selective school. Lot's go to private and public schools outside of the selective system. I think part of the issue has been a move away from organised inter-school sporting competition across a large swathe of the education sector. Which doesn't help the cause and has had major implications.

I know and have known many individuals who are/were avid sports fans who have attended selective schools who would have been all for the opportunity to compete in a sport if given the opportunity. I think the turn away from participation in many schools has less to do with the student and more to do with those in charge and the results driven nature of our education system today that is solely focused on the bell curve and not the overall development of the individual.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I watched a replay of the TV game with Wests and Gordon. I cant critize the Gordon players heart and commitment, for the most part they tried their outmost and wore the tartan with pride but the player quality and skill level was really lacking. The cattle just isn’t there (not sure if it is a recruitment issue or players leaving etc), I couldn’t find a player that would be a regular first grader at any other club. The good news is their colts. Focus most be on nurturing them into grade rather than rushing them into grade and at the same time managing players expectations. It’s hard for players to go back to Second grade or third grade after playing a season in first grade (despite not being first grade caliber). Gordon will compete with teams all year on heart alone but hopefully with the new coach, he can attract the class of players that will be competitive with every team all season long.

Might be time for Gordon to go the way of Penrith.

 

[wamberal]

I don't think that's entirely accurate.

Well, no, I did qualify my comments with the expression "from my limited understanding". I would have to write something far longer to make a more valid set of points.

Eastwood is a pretty good test case. We have two high schools very close by, Epping High, and St Kevin's. Both are rugby schools. The club itself is very handily situated. And yet we seem to be all white and PI faces, both on and off the field.

The stated policy is for us to move further to the north west, which is where most of our supporters live. They don't live where they used to.

I am sure if we had more money we could do more. But at the end of the day, I still maintain that culturally the generation which has immigrated from Asia per se has far less interest in organised sport. The facts speak for themselves, not only in our sport, which is hamstrung by a lack of funds, but all organised sport (except cricket, to a very minor extent).

 

[Quick Hands]

I am not sure that we are necessarily ignoring them. The bigger problem is that the parents of kids with this sort of background place a very high premium on academic achievement, and sooner or later that will mean that there is less time and interest in sport. Particularly professional sport. Much better to have a profession. Maybe these families are ignoring us, in favour of study and career potential outside sport.

From my limited understanding, academically selective schools just do not give much time or attention to competitive sport. And it is the academically selective schools that these kids are being prepared for.

If they are being coached, it is academic coaching, not the sporting variety.

Funnily enough, I just read an article by a kid of Chinese decent about this very thing. Don't fall for the stereotype.

Staring into some forms more than six years ago, my parents said, “choose Ruse or North Sydney” under the stigma that High is all ‘fun and games’. What I did next, I will never regret. Talking to other parents on Open Day, I was faced with the question “Why did you choose High?”. Going to many open days, I found myself stuck between the myriad of opportunities offered by different schools. However, upon visiting High, I found myself immersed in a melting pot of all these opportunities. My parents finally understood. The experiences I have gained at High, whether it be on the cricket pitch, the football field or during my studies, I wouldn’t have been able to grasp anywhere else. The many hours a week spent training and competing in a team have provided me with great skills and most importantly formed unforgettable memories that will be talked about many years into the future. “But what about your study time?” Trust me, your son will still be blessed with one of the best teachers and HSC scaling a school can offer. As PR prefect, I encourage the boys to appreciate High for its many opportunities and for everyone to see that the six years of High School is more than just the HSC.

http://www.sydneyboyshigh.com/publi...view/8303-high-notes-vol-19-no-13-may-11-2018

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Funnily enough, I just read an article by a kid of Chinese decent about this very thing. Don't fall for the stereotype.

Staring into some forms more than six years ago, my parents said, “choose Ruse or North Sydney” under the stigma that High is all ‘fun and games’. What I did next, I will never regret. Talking to other parents on Open Day, I was faced with the question “Why did you choose High?”. Going to many open days, I found myself stuck between the myriad of opportunities offered by different schools. However, upon visiting High, I found myself immersed in a melting pot of all these opportunities. My parents finally understood. The experiences I have gained at High, whether it be on the cricket pitch, the football field or during my studies, I wouldn’t have been able to grasp anywhere else. The many hours a week spent training and competing in a team have provided me with great skills and most importantly formed unforgettable memories that will be talked about many years into the future. “But what about your study time?” Trust me, your son will still be blessed with one of the best teachers and HSC scaling a school can offer. As PR prefect, I encourage the boys to appreciate High for its many opportunities and for everyone to see that the six years of High School is more than just the HSC.

http://www.sydneyboyshigh.com/publi...view/8303-high-notes-vol-19-no-13-may-11-2018

They could do with a better font for the newsletter!
Really sums up the purpose of rugby

 

[wamberal]

QH,


I lived and worked with zillions of Chinese people in Hong Kong, also in Thailand, over many years. I have not fallen for any stereotype. I think I have a fair understanding of what makes them tick.



You can always find exceptions to any rule, or any piece of conventional wisdom. I await with great interest the appearance of hordes of kids of Chinese descent into our sport. Nothing stopping them, is there?



I cannot say that I have any particular knowledge of South Asian cultures, other than that cricket and hockey seem to be the main sports.


The facts speak for themselves.

 

[Stands]

I watched a replay of the TV game with Wests and Gordon. I cant critize the Gordon players heart and commitment, for the most part they tried their outmost and wore the tartan with pride but the player quality and skill level was really lacking. The cattle just isn’t there (not sure if it is a recruitment issue or players leaving etc), I couldn’t find a player that would be a regular first grader at any other club. The good news is their colts. Focus most be on nurturing them into grade rather than rushing them into grade and at the same time managing players expectations. It’s hard for players to go back to Second grade or third grade after playing a season in first grade (despite not being first grade caliber). Gordon will compete with teams all year on heart alone but hopefully with the new coach, he can attract the class of players that will be competitive with every team all season long.

I've just watched the game, I thought their 8 played well as well as I think his surname was Luff? maybe got 5 turnovers? Gordon scored a few tries which were good. West Harbour was dominant though.