Shute Shield 2018

[WorkingClassRugger]

That sort of model would be interesting, there was a period of time when broader teams played in the comp but it didnt last.

I think there are already to many unions within our tree over here, with ACT, and Vic being involved what union would operate that model?

I know. And they should have continued with it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The following is an excerpt from The Australian's Wayne Smith regarding the Penrith/ SRU situation - written and published yesterday:

"Time is fast running out for the battling Penrith club in the Shute Shield competition as concerns over player safety are becoming paramount, but if the club is closed there is hope that the University of Western Sydney might take up the slack for rugby in Sydney’s geographical centre.
Penrith have been a club living under a suspended death sentence since the start of the year, set strict conditions which they must meet if they are to stay alive. The club’s Shute Shield results are alarming but of overriding concern is the fact that the club appears to be playing 15 and 16-year-olds in colts football to make up the numbers, with the Sydney Rugby Union having insisted at the start of the season that Penrith must field four senior grades and three colts sides each weekend.
But while some of the younger colts players might have the physical frame to cope with that level of football, the concern is that experience-wise they may be way out of their depth, at which point the SRU could become legally liable under player welfare provisions.
Further bringing the situation to a head is the fact that Penrith will play the reigning Sydney premiers Warringah at Nepean Park tomorrow, which brings into question how much longer the Shute Shield competition can sustain an uncompetitive side before it is forced to act to protect its integrity.
So far this season, Penrith have lost 62-7 to Southern Districts, 97-0 to Sydney University and 43-10 to Gordon.
The widespread belief is that if Penrith club were not in western Sydney they would have been axed 10 years ago.
The SRU has given them an enormous amount of latitude although it has no spare resources to throw at the problem. It does, however, call into question precisely what Rugby Australia’s strategy for the area might be.
“If there is a failure to meet some fairly rigid criteria this weekend, there will be some reasonably serious consequences,” SRU president David Begg said. “We’ve given Penrith a series of strict KPIs. They’re aware of what they are. We’re aware of what they are and they are under regular review.
“My board has not made a final decision and I can say that hand on heart.”
It is understood that informal talks have been held with University of Western Sydney about a new club starting up on campus. At this stage, the 2018 season would be played out between only 11 teams — with teams, if necessary, having a bye on those weekends they were due to play Penrith — but if the club does go under, it would make sense for the university to play a role in bolstering the Shute Shield back to a dozen clubs."

Which campus?

 

[wamberal]

Some fascinating struggles today.

 

[Quick Hands]

Results from Sat 28 April

Wests 30 def Randwick 12
Easts 16 def Manly 9
Warringah 87 def Penrith 5
Eastwood 30 def Souths 28
Norths 32 def Uni 26
Parra 37 def Gordon 26

All close but one game.

 

[Quick Hands]

Which campus?

The University of Western Sydney already have a rugby club which fields 4 grades and plays out of the Hawkesbury campus.

 

[The Honey Badger]

The University of Western Sydney already have a rugby club which fields 4 grades and plays out of the Hawkesbury campus.

HAC as it stands would be flogged worse than Penrith.

No way are they near SS standard

Something would have to happen to improve player stocks.


Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Quick Hands]

There's a stack of things to be worked out if this actually goes ahead. They can't just land in Subbies?

For example:

• Subbies is an amateur comp - SS is not.
• Penrith have contracted players - Subbies Clubs do not.
• Penrith Sponsors put money into a SS Club not a Subbies Club.
• Penrith Players signed up to play SS not Subbies.
• Some of these Penrith guys may already have loyalty to a subbies club (Not Penrith)
• Penrith Colts signed up to play SS Colts not subbies.

There's no way the SRU can force players to go to subbies & I can see a stack of blokes requesting releases.

I wasn't suggesting that anyone be forced to do anything.

I wasn't suggesting that they "just land in subbies" either.

You've put both of those interpretations on what I said, and if I may say, they are completely at odds to a plain English reading of what I said.

I'd hope that between them that the SRU and NSW Subbies could organise somewhere for them to play

I'm assuming that your second dot point is correct - if so it's astounding that guys who are so obviously below even semi-professional standard would be getting paid.

If Penrith players have loyalty to subbies club, then why are they playing for Penrith?

I merely expressed hope that between the SRU and NSW subbies, that something could be organised for the players and/or the club to play. It would be a shame if rugby politics and bureaucracy stopped this happening, but it wouldn't be a surprising result.

 

[Crashy]

Yes wests gave randwick a seeing to. Manly lost to easts.
Great game between norths and uni on tv at bowral.

 

[Quick Hands]

HAC as it stands would be flogged worse than Penrith.

No way are they near SS standard

Something would have to happen to improve player stocks.


Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

I know they would, which is why I have previously noted that if a club is to be brought in they they will need significant and sustained support from RA/NSWRU i.e. 20 years worth. Otherwise we would witness a repeat of the Penrith disaster.

I simply pointed out in response to another post that there was a suggestion to start a rugby club at UWS, that UWS already have a rugby club fielding 4 grades. Hard to see a university of the size of UWS fielding 2 clubs and a total of 11 teams across grade, subbies and colts. Not even Sydney Uni have that many players.

For what it's worth, I think that those advocating bringing in other clubs from either subbies or a fresh club significantly underestimate the cost and difficulty of the project.

My advice to UWS Rugby Club would be to run a mile from this unless they have ironclad guarantees of 20 years of funding (and significant funding).

 

[Quick Hands]

I posted a suggestion that if it wants to assume the 3rd Tier mantle then it should also look to expand the number of teams by elevating 1st grade to an elite squad and then elevating the remaining grades up one as well. The elite squad would compete in a competition with a team from Canberra (Tuggeranong) and Melbourne (either a club or rep squad) while all the rest will continue to play locally.

This way the traditional club structure is maintained but the competition grows.

This only really works if the NRC goes.

It's what goes on above SS that needs to be worked out before any meaningful adjustments can be made to SS formats.

EDIT: But broadly speaking I agree with the thrust of your suggestion.

Water polo operates a similar structure with a national league of 12 teams. I could work with rugby, and would allow SS to continue in its current form parallel to a national competition.

I fear that with rugby that so many vested interests have an interest in it not working

I'll send you a private conversation about how it works rather than clogging up the thread.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm not suggesting SS is the only one's to change, just to lead. Those clubs who prize their independence above all else are just as guilty for the state of rugby in this country as RA/ARU. I think you would find in Subbies, clubs would be more supportive of this kind of relationship than those against.

Note posts # 492 and 493 from subbies supporters.

I can also tell you that over many years that Forest have resisted any attempts to have a closer relationship with Manly. I offer no criticism of this, they have a good club, well-run, providing a good standard of rugby and serve their community well.

I think that you might be surprised at the level of opposition from subbies clubs.

 

[southsider]

I know they would, which is why I have previously noted that if a club is to be brought in they they will need significant and sustained support from RA/NSWRU i.e. 20 years worth. Otherwise we would witness a repeat of the Penrith disaster.

I simply pointed out in response to another post that there was a suggestion to start a rugby club at UWS, that UWS already have a rugby club fielding 4 grades. Hard to see a university of the size of UWS fielding 2 clubs and a total of 11 teams across grade, subbies and colts. Not even Sydney Uni have that many players.

For what it's worth, I think that those advocating bringing in other clubs from either subbies or a fresh club significantly underestimate the cost and difficulty of the project.

My advice to UWS Rugby Club would be to run a mile from this unless they have ironclad guarantees of 20 years of funding (and significant funding).

Can confirm at this time the comment of informal talks with western Sydney uni are 100% bullshit

 

[Pfitzy]

The club’s Shute Shield results are alarming but of overriding concern is the fact that the club appears to be playing 15 and 16-year-olds in colts football to make up the numbers, with the Sydney Rugby Union having insisted at the start of the season that Penrith must field four senior grades and three colts sides each weekend.

Two Blues haven't fielded Colts 3 all year though?

Speaking of Parramatta: while all 4 Grades got up home against Gordon, their Colts were trounced.

Emus didn't have a hope against the Rats really:
5-87
0-95
3-57
10-15
Their Colts travelled to Rat Park and got trounced 81-zip, 57-7, and 36-10

 

[Rugby Central]

Note posts # 492 and 493 from subbies supporters.

I can also tell you that over many years that Forest have resisted any attempts to have a closer relationship with Manly. I offer no criticism of this, they have a good club, well-run, providing a good standard of rugby and serve their community well.

I think that you might be surprised at the level of opposition from subbies clubs.

Late Saturday night so forgive the grammar..........under the current structure, why the F$&k would they. At the moment, any relationship requires Forest give up their players, or vice versa. Or, with all due respect, why would Forest bend over backward to take Manly 4th graders?

This is my point, the competitions are identical in structure, albeit not the same quality. So many comments attribute past attitudes to proposed futures. How Forest react under current structures to how they would react when circumstances are completely different is reductive to the point of redundancy.

If Forest got to retain their star players not regularly picked for Manly 1st grade, more to the point, got to keep them registered, how different would the attitude be. But history shows under completely different circumstances they are unreasonable, so let's not bother....,.,and you wonder why there's a disconnect between SS and the rest of the rugby community.

As I've mentioned, the attitude is SS is going ok so F*$k the rest of you.

Say you don't give a shit about the game; say you don't care if rugby dies in Australia. But please stop pretending you care when right in front of you is the means to fix the problem, at minimal, to none, financial cost, but you won't countenance any change whatsoever.

Apologies again for the late night spellcheck. Bundy & coke please.

 

[the coach]

Whose bright idea was it to play 1st and 2nd colts at Concord today and move 3rd and 4th grade to St Luke's?
Both colts games were little more than training runs for Wicks and were embarrassing to watch --- and Wicks rested half of their colts 1 players.
I'm happy to see colts 1 at the main ground if it looks like being a competitive game but not at the expense of 3rd and 4th grade.

 

[wamberal]

St Lukes???? Dear oh dear. I have not played there since school days, back in the 19th century or thereabouts, but I doubt that it would be much better now.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

St Lukes???? Dear oh dear. I have not played there since school days, back in the 19th century or thereabouts, but I doubt that it would be much better now.

the main oval is now for AFL

 

[I like to watch]

Late Saturday night so forgive the grammar....under the current structure, why the F$&k would they. At the moment, any relationship requires Forest give up their players, or vice versa. Or, with all due respect, why would Forest bend over backward to take Manly 4th graders?

This is my point, the competitions are identical in structure, albeit not the same quality. So many comments attribute past attitudes to proposed futures. How Forest react under current structures to how they would react when circumstances are completely different is reductive to the point of redundancy.

If Forest got to retain their star players not regularly picked for Manly 1st grade, more to the point, got to keep them registered, how different would the attitude be. But history shows under completely different circumstances they are unreasonable, so let's not bother..,.,and you wonder why there's a disconnect between SS and the rest of the rugby community.

As I've mentioned, the attitude is SS is going ok so F*$k the rest of you.

Say you don't give a shit about the game; say you don't care if rugby dies in Australia. But please stop pretending you care when right in front of you is the means to fix the problem, at minimal, to none, financial cost, but you won't countenance any change whatsoever.

Apologies again for the late night spellcheck. Bundy & coke please.

Hang on, why the hell would Forest,who are independent, want to report under the Marlins and be told who they can select from week to week.

They are happy in their place in the world,and are just as resistant to change as every other entity.
IMO the subbies would fight harder than the SS against the changes you suggest.

And I think you're on the wrong track in regards to support.
Most people who spend their day at Subbies or School are not then going to spend another afternoon supporting some other entity.

Just as,players who would not make the cut in a smaller SS squad would not automatically sign up with a subbies club.
The majority would be lost to the game.

Baby,bath water etc

 

[wamberal]

Anyway, some really interesting results this week.


The Woodies just hang on, apparently.

 

[Pfitzy]

Panda just dropped an article on Penrith getting the boot this week. Behind a paywall so I haven't read it.