Shute Shield 2017

[Dave Beat]

Premier Rugby clubs like Easts, Ashgrove and Sunnybank all have around 80 junior teams and over 1000 players, all playing in the same colours, jerseys and names as the senior teams. It's part of the culture of the club and develops the future fan base..

This i really like, whilst our junior clubs have their own identity. Our camps and programs include SS identity training tees to create the culture and fan base you refer to.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I disagree, at least from a QLD Premier Rugby perspective which has a slightly different structure to Sydney Rugby. Premier Rugby clubs in Brisbane have combined Junior and Senior clubs, juniors don't operate as branch or affiliate clubs. Premier Rugby clubs like Easts, Ashgrove and Sunnybank all have around 80 junior teams and over 1000 players, all playing in the same colours, jerseys and names as the senior teams. It's part of the culture of the club and develops the future fan base.

I also suspect that limiting the teams too just 1st, 2nd grade and colts would create depth issues, as a club with 2 premier clubs you would realistically want up to 45 players to provide cover for injuries and missed matches.. it means you're going to have bulk reserves just sitting on the sideline of the 2nd grade matches hoping to get game time.

I actually think that's a much better model than what we have here in Sydney. Certainly for the Shute Shield clubs. I personally wouldn't be all that fussed if we only had 12-16 or so actual 'clubs' but each had thousands of active members with 1000s of juniors each.

 

[I like to watch]

Wait till you have 3 or 4 kids, and one plays at Penrith 9.00, another in Hornsby at 9.30 & the third at Maroubra at 10,if there was a fourth undoubtedly it would also be 9.30at Newport

That's why Jnr clubs evolved as they have,in Sydney.....
If you can stay reasonably local its 10 X easier.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Wait till you have 3 or 4 kids, and one plays at Penrith 9.00, another in Hornsby at 9.30 & the third at Maroubra at 10,if there was a fourth undoubtedly it would also be 9.30at Newport

That's why Jnr clubs evolved as they have,in Sydney...
If you can stay reasonably local its 10 X easier.

Well, the idea of having only x number of super clubs is that when say Easts play Randwick the entire club players them.

 

[p.Tah]

Wait till you have 3 or 4 kids, and one plays at Penrith 9.00, another in Hornsby at 9.30 & the third at Maroubra at 10,if there was a fourth undoubtedly it would also be 9.30at Newport

That's why Jnr clubs evolved as they have,in Sydney...
If you can stay reasonably local its 10 X easier.

That's seems to happen with my kids anyway

 

[Dave Beat]

Wait till you have 3 or 4 kids, and one plays at Penrith 9.00, another in Hornsby at 9.30 & the third at Maroubra at 10,if there was a fourth undoubtedly it would also be 9.30at Newport

That's why Jnr clubs evolved as they have,in Sydney...
If you can stay reasonably local its 10 X easier.

Poor kid having to head back to Newport

 

[Dave Beat]

And cost to play Junior Rugby in Sydney goes up next year. I understand the break down of the costs and why, just not sure about the delivery of it all.

National Participant Insurance Levy (NPIL)
National Participation Registration Fee (NPRF)
SJRU Administration Fee


Fee/Levy Junior 4-7 years Junior 8-10 years Junior 10-12 years Youth 13-18 years
NPIL $0.00 $12.00 $12.00 $14.00
NPRF $11.25 $28.25 $28.25 $28.25
SJRU $0.00 $0.00 $7.50 $7.50
TOTAL $11.25 $40.25 $47.75 $49.75

 

[I like to watch]

Well, the idea of having only x number of super clubs is that when say Easts play Randwick the entire club players them.

Terrific, but in the real world, Newport has more kids registered than both Easts & Wicks combined, or Norths or Uni etc etc.
Going to a lot of unmatched fixtures in this brave new world....

 

[Dave Beat]

Terrific, but in the real world, Newport has more kids registered than both Easts & Wicks combined, or Norths or Uni etc etc.
Going to a lot of unmatched fixtures in this brave new world..

Part of the pathway to the east hey

 

[I like to watch]

And cost to play Junior Rugby in Sydney goes up next year. I understand the break down of the costs and why, just not sure about the delivery of it all.

National Participant Insurance Levy (NPIL)
National Participation Registration Fee (NPRF)
SJRU Administration Fee


Fee/Levy Junior 4-7 years Junior 8-10 years Junior 10-12 years Youth 13-18 years
NPIL $0.00 $12.00 $12.00 $14.00
NPRF $11.25 $28.25 $28.25 $28.25
SJRU $0.00 $0.00 $7.50 $7.50
TOTAL $11.25 $40.25 $47.75 $49.75

^^^^^Bills idea of investing in grassroots...
Tax 'em $50 a head for the glory of playing under the umbrella of the ARU.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Terrific, but in the real world, Newport has more kids registered than both Easts & Wicks combined, or Norths or Uni etc etc.
Going to a lot of unmatched fixtures in this brave new world..

Never suggested you'd jump from the current system to that from one season to the next. You work toward to its as part of an extended startegic plan.

 

[I like to watch]

How does unscrambling the egg, improve participation in any way?

It is what it is.

Investing in the grassroots will improve things, the kids don't care if they are in clovelly colours or in Easts gear.
Probably neither they or nor their parents know the difference when they first register.

 

[p.Tah]

Perhaps you just have the logo of the SS club on the junior club gear (e.g shorts).... along with the Tahs and Wallabies logos to show the pathway for development and support

 

[Rugby Central]

I also suspect that limiting the teams too just 1st, 2nd grade and colts would create depth issues, as a club with 2 premier clubs you would realistically want up to 45 players to provide cover for injuries and missed matches..

The depth argument is a furphy. I don't see St George Dragons 4th grade running around each weekend or the Sydney Swans thirsty thirds. Yet they manage to pull teams together.

I suggest amending the competition, I said nothing about dissolving the Clubs.

it means you're going to have bulk reserves just sitting on the sideline of the 2nd grade matches hoping to get game time

What you're arguing here is the maintenance of Club rugby as it stands. There's nothing wrong with that, but making sure guys get game time is not compatible with developing elite players.

Clubs still train together and (if organised properly) the more social grades play at different times to the premier comp. There's nothing stopping a fringe player getting noticed at training or a run up the grades from the bench.

I'm yet to see the All Blacks or Wallabies field a 30 man bench. Are you suggesting those players outside the starters don't play any rugby when they're not on the bench?

This is about a competition restructure to make the Shute Shield more relevant to developing elite players ready for the next level. While nobody can dispute Paps passion, the thinking that a 100 year old competition structure needs nothing more than a bit of money, is causing the decline of Club rugby as we know it.

This might not be a perfect solution but the status quo is barely keeping the life support on.

 

[Rugby Central]

in my eyes, the forth graders are just as important as the first graders.

In my eyes they are more important.

Stop thinking this is advocating for the abolition of Club rugby. Just a change in the competition structure.

The argument that you're making essentially says there is no value in Subbies rugby. If players aren't in the Shute Shield competition then they are not relevant.

As the establishment is incapable of thinking outside the box my theory will never be tested. But I would bet my left one that Shute Shield Clubs would grow in numbers if they run teams in lower competitions such as Subbies.

 

[I like to watch]

St George Dragons don't have 4th grade but they do have a squad of 30+ of full time professionals to field one team each week.

It's one thing to ask a 3rd grader to sit on the bench for 2's, immediately after they have played.
It's another to get them all to drive from Narrabeen to Coogee specifically to be emergency cover.
People will do it once or twice not every week of the season......

 

[Dave Beat]

^^^^^Bills idea of investing in grassroots.
Tax 'em $50 a head for the glory of playing under the umbrella of the ARU.

I don't have an issue with the new cost and the insurance, comparing to other winter codes we are very very competitive.

The timing of it frustrates me, most clubs would have already planned their registration costs for next year and in some cases even started promoting their club.

Rugby Link opens on the 5th Jan so we can start registration.
Announcing this 10 days prior to Christmas and 20 days prior to Registration opening leaves clubs possibly being left with an out of pocket loss on registration.

There is an increase of over 50% in levies - I'd be fairly confident that there aren't to many junior clubs carrying that amount of fat in their rego costs.

Again no issue in the new cost, it is the timing that i think is very poor.

 

[Quick Hands]

Wait till you have 3 or 4 kids, and one plays at Penrith 9.00, another in Hornsby at 9.30 & the third at Maroubra at 10,if there was a fourth undoubtedly it would also be 9.30at Newport

That's why Jnr clubs evolved as they have,in Sydney...
If you can stay reasonably local its 10 X easier.

Although SJRU have managed to stuff this up. In 4 consecutive Sundays in 2016 our 12s played away games at Blue Mountains, Sylvania, Dural and Blacktown.

 

[Quick Hands]

In my eyes they are more important.

Stop thinking this is advocating for the abolition of Club rugby. Just a change in the competition structure.

The argument that you're making essentially says there is no value in Subbies rugby. If players aren't in the Shute Shield competition then they are not relevant.

As the establishment is incapable of thinking outside the box my theory will never be tested. But I would bet my left one that Shute Shield Clubs would grow in numbers if they run teams in lower competitions such as Subbies.

He's not saying that at all. He's saying that club rugby works well with the model that it is using and your proposition would harm that.

There's nothing wrong with subbies - it caters for a different type of player.

There's so much that needs fixing in Australian rugby, I don't see how fiddling with one of the few things that works well is to anyone's advantage.

 

[TOCC]

Investing in the grassroots will improve things, the kids don't care if they are in clovelly colours or in Easts gear.
Probably neither they or nor their parents know the difference when they first register.

I think you're undervaluing the importance of brand alignment..

I support the QPR team I do today because it was the club I played for in Under 10's.. my brother and his kids support the QPR team he does today because it's the same club that his kids play for.

Not all QPR teams used to have a juniors club, but I think nearly all have adopted this model now and combined the juniors and seniors clubs back together under the one brand.

Bond Uni and UQ been the notable exception... Bond Uni probably has the closest model to what exists In the Shute Shield, they have no juniors, just affiliate junior clubs playing under their own colours and team names.