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Shute Shield 2016

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waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
the coach said:
Anyone know how the system works in NZ?
I was working there for 12 months a few years ago and the message from my work colleagues was that there was no "elite" pampering of young guys -- they had to earn their positions in super rugby by playing in local clubs and then the ABs. Not sure if that's correct, but that's what I was told. Whatever they do it seems to work fairly well.
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It used to be very much a pyramid: 1st XV, Schools/ Age Group, Club, NPC (when there were three Divisions: Carlos Spencer & Christian Cullen both played D3 for Horowhenua-Kapiti before D1), All Blacks. Clubs & schools up & down the country have honours boards listing their All Blacks, Maori All Blacks, Junior All Blacks (when that meant under-23), NZ Colts (U21), NZ Varsities etc.

These days it's more like 1st XV, Schools/ Age Group, Super Rugby Academy, Super Rugby/ All Blacks, released back to ITM Cup, occasionally released back to Club. Very rare now for anyone to come up via Heartland (what used to be D3) a la Spencer or Cullen, these days they'd have been identified at 1st XV & gone straight into someone's Super Rugby Academy.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
waiopehu oldboy said:
It used to be very much a pyramid: 1st XV, Schools/ Age Group, Club, NPC (when there were three Divisions: Carlos Spencer & Christian Cullen both played D3 for Horowhenua-Kapiti before D1), All Blacks. Clubs & schools up & down the country have honours boards listing their All Blacks, Maori All Blacks, Junior All Blacks (when that meant under-23), NZ Colts (U21), NZ Varsities etc.

These days it's more like 1st XV, Schools/ Age Group, Super Rugby Academy, Super Rugby/ All Blacks, released back to ITM Cup, occasionally released back to Club. Very rare now for anyone to come up via Heartland (what used to be D3) a la Spencer or Cullen, these days they'd have been identified at 1st XV & gone straight into someone's Super Rugby Academy.
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So very different to the view of the world of the Shute Shield clubs?
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Dave Beat said:
You are isolating and missing a major point.
In NZ there is only school boy rugby, club rugby starts when you leave school. There is a pretty significant difference.
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There's no junior clubs in NZ?
 
Hugh Jarse

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
AFAIK, Junior clubs cover primary school ages. Nearly every secondary school has a rugby team or two and they play in graded mixed private/public secondary school competitions every weekend during the season. There are district (ITM Cup) based rep teams chosen for a couple of the age groups but essentially most clubs don't try to compete with the Secondary Schools Rugby union competition. Apparently a lot of kids (the non-rock stars) head back to the club they were associated with as a junior when it comes time for Colts rugby.

The annointed ones are sucked up into the Pathway to Black, via the regional academies whether super rugby academies, or ITM cup development teams.

Occasionally a promising Australian (with NZ parents/grandparents or birth) is enticed across the Tasman into these academies. Cameron Skelton (Will's Brother), Mike Kennedy (Riverview halfback), David Morris (Newington flanker) are recent examples of this.
 
Dave Beat

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Dave Beat said:
Unless there has been change, that is what I'm told.
Rugby is like school over there.
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Well there we go - happy to be proven wrong.

Any kiwi's floating around that can go into more detail - it use to be schools only over the ditch didnt it?
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Dave Beat said:
Well there we go - happy to be proven wrong.

Any kiwi's floating around that can go into more detail - it use to be schools only over the ditch didnt it?
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Yes and no, depended on where you lived.

I played midgets for a Club but I'm sure there were (private) school-based teams as well. Our Intermediate (10-12yo) had teams but only played mid-week maybe twice a month v visiting schools (rugby, soccer & hockey for the boys, Soccer, hockey & netball for the girls).

By college age it was a mixture: every high school/ college had at least a 1st & 2nd XV, some a 3rd; some Clubs had U14, U15 etc, some didn't & it wasn't unusual for a talented kid to play schools Saturday morning & Club Saturday afternoon.

That's how it was circa 1972-78 in Taranaki & Horowhenua, anyways.
 
MACCA

MACCA

Ron Walden (29)
Any one game to come up with some predictions for the Shute Shield finalists this year?

How about GAGR getting a Shute Shield tipping comp going?
 
AussieDominance

AussieDominance

Trevor Allan (34)
All this conversation regarding Shute Shield and developing players I would like to see how the ARU go without the Shute Shield supplying players to the NRC.

Then we may realise how important the NRC is and how important the clubs are that financed it for them.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I would like to see aspiring professional players opt not to test themselves at the higher level in hopes of gaining Super Rugby exposure.

Fanciful suggestion really.
 
GunnerDownUnder

GunnerDownUnder

Jim Clark (26)
MACCA said:
Any one game to come up with some predictions for the Shute Shield finalists this year?

How about GAGR getting a Shute Shield tipping comp going?
Click to expand...
I get us started with some incorrect predictions

Manly the team to beat again
Eastwood will beat them again
Uni will be the team to cheat again
Souths will be weaker and fall just short in more games than not again
Souths will prove me wrong and win more games than not again
Rats will surprise all and last season for once again
Rats will prove me wrong and drop off at end of year again
Gordon on up
Two Blues on up
Easts have a long season
Norths will be hit or miss
Wicks to miss a few players this year and not fulfill potential every week
Emus to win one this year but only just and towards end of year
Pirates - my team hmmnn I will see some good wins but they will be tempered by more losses than I would like
 
the coach

the coach

Bob Davidson (42)
GunnerDownUnder said:
I get us started with some incorrect predictions

Manly the team to beat again
Eastwood will beat them again
Uni will be the team to cheat again
Souths will be weaker and fall just short in more games than not again
Souths will prove me wrong and win more games than not again
Rats will surprise all and last season for once again
Rats will prove me wrong and drop off at end of year again
Gordon on up
Two Blues on up
Easts have a long season
Norths will be hit or miss
Wicks to miss a few players this year and not fulfill potential every week
Emus to win one this year but only just and towards end of year
Pirates - my team hmmnn I will see some good wins but they will be tempered by more losses than I would like
Click to expand...

Hold those thoughts
 
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