Shute Shield 2014

[I like to watch]

More of the same?
He is not just objecting to the proposals.
He tells Pulver they think he is numpty.
And I think they are right.
From the points raised in the letter,Pulver would fail a first year assignment on business plans.

 

[PumpkinHead]

I have always said... Instead of pulling down Sydney Uni for they have built look to replicate it... For the sake of progress in Aussie Rugby and fairer competition in the SS.. Do you think that no one as ever copied Apple's designs or business model for future success.

I have always said this is the way forward:

Lets say the ARU are about to sink 500K per annum into "Extra Contracts" of 50 players. Why do they not think of this model.

Allocate each club an additional 40K and have a set of non negotiable standards that would need to be adhered to.

40k is used to develop players.

20K - Skills Coach or Towards a full time club coach

20K - S&C Coach

The High Performance Unit at the ARU would be able to sit in on the interview process to ensure that there is an above board approach to this. The ARU could also take the responsibility of paying the contracts if the feel this is a better way to safe guard from clubs using funds in other areas.

The ARU could the instigate a set of KPI's & KRA's for each club. While also instituting a set of testing protocols that each club would need to then provide to the ARU on a monthly or 6 weekly basis. This way opening up the talent pool that the ARU currently look at.

Positives:

- Instead of 50 players... You begin to look at 250-300 players in Sydney alone, under the ARU testing procedures and protocol!
- SS will have improved playing stocks due to the ability for each club to provide additional on field resources and coaching
- It is the way to make the ARU inclusive rather than exclusive

If you are looking to build a 3rd tier, you need to look at the grass roots and build from the ground up.

And look the clubs like Uni who have enough resources would be able to the waive this grant for the good of the game and so their allocation can be distributed to others less fortunate like a Penrith to start the long climb off the canvas.

There are a lot of holes in this theory.. But there are a lot of holes in every option... But we need to encourage grass roots and not cut them off at the knees!

Do this in Brisbane and you start to look at rougly 400--500 players on the ARU books!

A much better return then on the 50 that would be involved!

 

[BeastieBoy]

At the outset whichever format is chosen for the third tier competition we have to accept that we are in a professional sport that must be attractive to a large number of spectators to survive and thrive and attract media and sponsorship funding. The spectators for the other 2 tiers are dropping. Why will the 3rd be any different. We are NOT South Africa or NZ. Rugby is not the main game. We have other codes that are improving and competing for our juniors. Australians appreciate enterprise innovation and adventure. We have to bring back that spirit of the 70's and up the jumper tries. Endless pick and drives on the line and scrums leading to penalties are a turn off. Unless the bosses of this competition are prepared to have different rules, than the IRB (as we have at times in our history), then forget it. It wont work. We wont get enough followers to pay the bills. The ones that may agree with me are in the SRU and not the ARU. So i think the plan must be devised by the SRU alone initially, as the ARU will only slow you down. Then present it to them to try and get their buyin. But we must be prepared and a fall back to introduce it ourselves.

 

[BeastieBoy]

I will assume that we don't want to continue favouring a few super clubs are are looking at this as a way to engage as many clubs as possible, their sub districts and juniors. While i have generations of loyalty to my club, I believe we need to make some adjustments to make this work. I will use my club as a example. The competition should field a opens and colts team. The Teams will be true Joint Venture Teams in the style of Rugby League. There would be joint venture of 2 or 3 clubs and maybe more in regional areas. It would incorporate Sydney, Brisbane, Gosford, Canberra etc. So say Easts Randwick was the joint venture. They would each supply 50% of the players, so no players were encouraged to leave a club and each of their lower grades can see a pathway. In the Initial years the home games would be rotated between Coogee & Woollahra. Administrative issues would be centralised where possible with the Competition organisers. The management team of the 2 teams would be equal numbers with a facilitator with the casting vote. It would go the full season. That way all teams in both clubs have ownership in the team and feel they have a chance to get there. It would network the teams and frame works in the 2 (or 3) districts. over time it would act like a salary cap so that if one of the clubs had too many good players they would go to the other club as they would have a better chance of progressing. It would strengthen and reinforce what we have and make for more competitive games. We then work out ways to bring in the long neglected growth areas e.g. Central Coast. If it has legs and our new enterprising rules are attracting dollars, well then we can investigate better venues in the areas or enhancing seating in our existing ones.

 

[BeastieBoy]

Everyone has to make adjustments and no one is immune. So Manly with maybe Warringah. And Sydney uni with others. But they will still only get their percentage of players in their JV. Mind you a number of theirs maybe on other duties anyway. Training would be rotated at the joint venturers grounds. In Gosford there are 2 strong clubs and a few not so strong so we need to think that through. Our driver there I's not to destroy clubs but maintain them and their juniors.

 

[BeastieBoy]

The difference is each club is selecting who they put in the team. They have buyin and ownership. There are no outside influences selecting teams. So hopefully each district feels they have a pathway in and want to go to see their players play.there are no players just parachuted in from outside either.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Great score Dave Beat.

Hooley Dooley @ this
"We accept the existence of financial problems, but we do not accept the doomsday scenario of the disappearance of Australian Rugby within two years."

Is the Pulversier seriously suggesting that the ARU is so broke that they could go belly up in two years?

Great legacy left from JO'N.

Looks like it is back to the Chook Raffles at the Pub and running the BBQ's at Bunnings to keep the ARU going.

Or relying on the NZRU.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I have always said. Instead of pulling down Sydney Uni for they have built look to replicate it. For the sake of progress in Aussie Rugby and fairer competition in the SS.. Do you think that no one as ever copied Apple's designs or business model for future success.

I have always said this is the way forward:

Lets say the ARU are about to sink 500K per annum into "Extra Contracts" of 50 players. Why do they not think of this model.

Allocate each club an additional 40K and have a set of non negotiable standards that would need to be adhered to.

40k is used to develop players.

20K - Skills Coach or Towards a full time club coach

20K - S&C Coach

The High Performance Unit at the ARU would be able to sit in on the interview process to ensure that there is an above board approach to this. The ARU could also take the responsibility of paying the contracts if the feel this is a better way to safe guard from clubs using funds in other areas.

The ARU could the instigate a set of KPI's & KRA's for each club. While also instituting a set of testing protocols that each club would need to then provide to the ARU on a monthly or 6 weekly basis. This way opening up the talent pool that the ARU currently look at.

Positives:

- Instead of 50 players. You begin to look at 250-300 players in Sydney alone, under the ARU testing procedures and protocol!
- SS will have improved playing stocks due to the ability for each club to provide additional on field resources and coaching
- It is the way to make the ARU inclusive rather than exclusive

If you are looking to build a 3rd tier, you need to look at the grass roots and build from the ground up.

And look the clubs like Uni who have enough resources would be able to the waive this grant for the good of the game and so their allocation can be distributed to others less fortunate like a Penrith to start the long climb off the canvas.

There are a lot of holes in this theory.. But there are a lot of holes in every option. But we need to encourage grass roots and not cut them off at the knees!

Do this in Brisbane and you start to look at rougly 400--500 players on the ARU books!

A much better return then on the 50 that would be involved!

There must be a lot more than 50 players who will be contracted for the National Club Comp - the s15 clubs are permitted 35 + EPS.
BeastieBoy I think there is some potential in your proposal (kiss of death?). I think the central implied requirement is to get some vertical relationship between subbies and the district clubs, particularly in your area.
It doesn't make much sense for there to be no management or coaching relationship, player interchange or sharing of resources between Colleagues and Easts, for instance: there must be an enormous amount of duplication of effort and expense.
But immediately another layer of vested interest intrudes.

 

[Dave Beat]

I have always said. Instead of pulling down Sydney Uni for they have built look to replicate it. For the sake of progress in Aussie Rugby and fairer competition in the SS.. Do you think that no one as ever copied Apple's designs or business model for future success.

I'm not sure people are pulling them down, they are pointing out that they have a structure, and an offering that other clubs can not provide.

I don't have a solution, the top 3 of the CC have remained pretty consistent over recent years - Eastwood & Manly are doing good things.

Some points to think over;
Grass Roots
Manly won 3 state champs, had 3 colts teams in the finals, and firsts should have toppled Uni in the Grand Final - it would be great if we could keep this crop in Blue - some maybe lost to school scholarships, that roll into Sydney Uni scholarships, some maybe lost to Super teams that don't release players, and hey some may simply stop playing. Don't have a solution but if clubs are doing the right things they should be listened to at board meetings.

Premier Rugby
If the Shute / Premier rugby provides about 2/3rds of Wallaby players it should be fostered, nurtured and developed. The ARU allowing Super Teams to not release players so they and Aust. rugby can improve further - how's that good for rugby. But they allow some players to head over to the ITM - baffles me. The Shute & Premier rugby should be the

Third Tier and to do that maybe some modifications;
Players come back after Super.
Unfortunately 2 teams go, so 10 teams.
Finals - questions / timing / structure????
- top 4 Shute.
- top 3 Premier.
- minor premier ACT.

BeastieBoy got passionate above with ideas - I'd like plenty of Yen poured into the 3rd tier being our Shute / Premier comps. Then let Japan have an academy team included in our comp preparing for their hosting of the RWC.
This will assist with broadcasting and international exposure.

 

[BeastieBoy]

Dave Beat funny you should say that as there was talk about a second tier jap club sponsoring easts last year. First we have to get our format and house in order.Once done we maybe arrange sponsorships with jap clubs and have player swaps. Giving our boys overseas experience and revenue in our off season.

 

[BeastieBoy]

The proposal must be driven by someone at the SRU at the grassroots. We need a bottom up approach for a change.They haven't done anything ever to help before and their latest proposal are really a token. So the SRU must get in the drivers seat and start driving.i and I'm sure others would be happy to brainstorm all the ideas on this site and with what we all come up with to come up with a plan.We need the SRU to lead it.

 

[Dave Beat]

BeastieBoy I'm sure there are trolls reviewing what is posted.

The interest Jpn rugby has shown in the Southern Hemisphere players is huge - we can't look at our 3rd Tier like the ITM & Currie so including Jpn is simply a different thought. Look at the game time George Smith got this year - he would still be my first choice 7 for the Wobs.

Imagine the exposure, experience, and development they'd get leading up to the RWC.

 

[credit]

If I was a University team in any competition and able to out bid the local suburban teams for players I would be worried the local teams out vote them out of their competition, that would leave them isolated

 

[Gibbo]

An invite to all Grade and Colts players to meet with Gordon Rugby Head Coach Geoff Townsend next Friday night. This is for current and aspiring players.

http://gordonrugby.com.au/2013/09/20/season-2014-briefing-27913/

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Here's hoping that the Gay Gordon's can attract sufficient talent to run 3 full Colts squads next year.

Shute Shield Club tribalism rules say that they need to hate Gordon not pity them.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Dave Beat funny you should say that as there was talk about a second tier jap club sponsoring easts last year. First we have to get our format and house in order.Once done we maybe arrange sponsorships with jap clubs and have player swaps. Giving our boys overseas experience and revenue in our off season.

If your club has any serious interest in pursuing such a link, BeastieBoy, it might help if club members such as yourself don't use the term "jap". Japanese people find it offensive.
.

 

[No.8]

I think the 3rd tier comp needs to come from a private source - its fairly clear the ARU dont have the imagenation, and motivation to come up with anything good. Id like to see the comp develped and funded from a private source - they may be able to inject some excitment it it.

Lets me honest atm the 2014 season is looking like - Uni, Souths, Manly, Eastwood battling it out until the final stages of the comp where Uni will inject professional players into the side and win the comp - no team can compete agasint playing 20 professional players.

 

[BeastieBoy]

Fred, how spot on you are. They are the quick fix anointed Super Teams it appears for the new ARC version. There is no thought about buy in and linking toballbthe juniors. They have gone with a expensive all encompassing model with expensive airfares and accommodation. Sure they may be successful now but history has shown that things change. Before S U it was Randwick. We should be organizing joint venture teams to embrace all teams and their juniors. To start there should be a NSW + Canberra comp ie Newcastle (Gosford too) Sydney of 6 odd teams and Wollongong. This will reduce costs dramatically. Qld can do something similar.We cannot afford to alienate what we have. We need a community model that has buyin from everyone. The proposed Heinekin model is not community based, is foreign in its concept and is unaustralian.

 

[Dave Beat]

We cannot afford to alienate what we have. We need a community model that has buyin from everyone. The proposed Heinekin model is not community based, is foreign in its concept and is unaustralian.

Have I missed something - has a structure been given the nod for next year?
I was asking this in the other thread.

I agree with what you say, however if the powers above say only ? 3 or 4 ? teams get the 3T licence it should be the 3 or for most competitive, financial, have large support, and have grass roots - and have them drag the other teams up.

Super B model sucks - what was the Tahs average attendance this year, are they going to get a huge supporter base to a Super B comp.

The community model that has buy in & support will create interest and grow. Maybe the Shute is reduced to 10 teams (or 8 Sydney & 2 others) and the only input the ARU has - players that were brought up through the Shute Shield are returned to the Shute Shield after Super Rugby.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

With the success of the ITM cup, the Lions tour, the 6 team AAGPS and CAS Competitions, and The Rugby Championship all of which seem to be conducted in a concentrated 2 month period (more or less), regardless of what happens with the Super B, Third Tier or whatever thought bubble is currently to the fore from Moore Park and St Leonards, is the concept of a full home and away series in the Shute Shield still relevant?

Should the Shute Shield be a one round competition with something else happening in the second half of the year when the Wobs tours, SuperB/third tier stuff, ITM cup is going on?

What do they do in NZ clubland?